On Topic Discussion 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2)

[Kahaih]

The point of the gloves for the cashier is to avoid being infected, not avoid infected others: rather the contrary than with the food case, whose success, anyway, would depend on what else is involved in the process, mainly how gloves are taken off.

I'm not much inclined to agree with this /\, but it does bring up the issue of protecting the employees.

Sanitizing equipment, for any amount of time, without the gloves, could do a lot of damage to a person's skin.

 

[belamyi]

That's exactly how it spread around Europe: both Italy and Spain announced strict lockdown measures and then failed to implement them for over 24 hours. By that time, millions of people from Madrid and Milan had gone home to their holiday homes on the beach, or the villages of their grandparents.

You heard some music playing down here in Spain, but didn't quite get the score: you could tell your grandnieces and grandnephews first-hand how an urban (rather country, in this case) legend is born.

There are around seven million people in the Madrid area: if there had been "millions of people" flocking from Madrid to the Mediterranean and elsewhere, there would have been not been enough million Madrilian people scolding those who hadd left. There was a movement of the sort from the Barcelona area, but none of that has caused any spreading of the infections to the level your King Koontz plot suggests. What caused a legitimate uproar is that, in the case of Madrid, the fleers had become vacationers strolling around on the coastal areas, instead of remaining at home, and going out only exceptionally to buy, as was observed in the Costa Brava towns: it doesn't make much of a difference, meaning if at all, whether you are quarantined in your first or second residence. But I read that in some hicksville hole in Wales or something like that, the abos had trashed a vehicle coming from the city.

In the case of Italy there may have been more of a chaos in that respect, but in the case of Madrid and Barcelona I would blame more the chaos of the first couple of days when, like now in London, people kept being sandwiched in trains. About the link between Italy and Spain you have more of a point: not only the preposterous source of infection that was that match (that the players developed the disease a few days after is a good evidence), but the fact that there are close to 30,000 Italians residing in Barcelona city proper alone, being the largest foreign group, was one of the many reasons why it made no sense that there was such a wide gap between what was happening in Madrid, and what was not happening in Barcelona, during the first week of the health crisis.

 

[belamyi]

I'm not much inclined to agree with this /\, but it does bring up the issue of protecting the employees.

Sanitizing equipment, for any amount of time, without the gloves, could do a lot of damage to a person's skin.

The issue is APPEARING to protect: gloves and masks are used like strolling policepeople, mainly to pamper people's peace of mind.
As I said, I was discussing the logic behind the gloving up, not what is actually achieved with that.

Picture the southern coastal area of Barcelona, 2000: belamo "working" with some catering services on a boat filled with guiris, touching a slice of Spanish omelette with one bare hand, and being asked by the waiter in charge whether he considered that a pretty thing to do: it may have not been pretty, but sure it was not unhealthy, let alone health-threatening.
Picture Beijing University, academic year 2003-2004: in a group of belamo's acquaintances, one of them observing that another (not belamo this time ) had dirtied one toothpick that he had taken and put back in the holder, belamo observes back that the toothpick had only been dirtied a bit more than it already was.

Again, it is all about peace of mind and blissful ignorance, then about sensational "scary" stories to "have fun" from a distance every now and then.

My first thought with this pandemic issue, even when it was only a "Chinese thing", is that the virus was more similar to the common flu, and not something more aggresive, because filth is such a big part of our daily lives, no matter how sanitized, that the dirt that is usually harmless can become the biggest weapon of mass destruction if it is charged by Mother Nature with whatever destructive whim of hers that even the evilest and coldest-minded character in a blockbuster could not eve dream of ever conceiving.

 

[KaraBulut]

I observed the same at a drive through. The cashier handed me my order wearing her gloves, rang up the order on the cash register, took my credit card, returned it, all with wearing the gloves, so all she accomplished was changing a vector of contagion from being her skin to her gloves.

In truth, I have always observed this doltishness on the part of food workers in restaurants, so have always assumed gloves were meaningless.

The gloves do have some powder on them, to begin with, that would help to dry them, making them less apt to transmit viruses than bare, damp, absorbing hands/skin would be.

The point of the gloves for the cashier is to avoid being infected, not avoid infected others: rather the contrary than with the food case, whose success, anyway, would depend on what else is involved in the process, mainly how gloves are taken off.

In infection control training, we're taught that money is problematic because it is passed through many hands and is rarely washed unless it happens to be in a pants pocket and get into the laundry. In spite of this, workers handling money all day and also packaging your food somehow has become common.

Gloves don't really do as much as we think they do for protecting the person wearing them. Intact skin is a pretty good barrier and most viral infections occur when we touch our nose, mouth or eyes (or inhale aerosolized droplets from a sneeze/cough). A lot of us wore gloves because washing your hands 20 or more times in an 8 hour shift eventually chaps the skin and leads to breakdown of the skin- its easier to wash your hands once and then change gloves periodically. There's a reason why you see a box of gloves in every patient room in a hospital- the gloves should be changed between patients.

Most of the corn powder is on the inside of the latex gloves is there because it makes them easier to put on. There's a little on the outside that helps keep latex gloves from adhering to each other. There's been discussion about banning powder on the gloves because there are workers who develop an allergy to it.

A lot of the gloves that are used in the food service business are polyethylene or polyurethane plastic -it's quite thin and prone to breakage.

It's been my own assumption/observation that the places that have been banning plastic bags have only done so because they can see them along the roadsides, in the trees, etc. - not really about protecting the environment at all.

Plastic bags are a nightmare for the wastewater system. Our sewers and storm drains weren't designed for impermeable plastics.

 

[belamyi]

I'm not much inclined to agree with this /\, but it does bring up the issue of protecting the employees.

Sanitizing equipment, for any amount of time, without the gloves, could do a lot of damage to a person's skin.

Medical equipment is called like that for a reason: the masses started buying surgical masks that now they are realizing only certain people really do, and the same goes for drugs, but candy is obviously less easily taken away for them.

Customer service employess have been asking for screens to protect them and, though it seems less a mere etiquette question, as it is with the use of gloves, as in their case, their sense also depends of everything else that you do to keep yourself away from the virus as much as you can.

 

[cityboy-stl]

In infection control training, we're taught that money is problematic because it is passed through many hands and is rarely washed unless it happens to be in a pants pocket and get into the laundry. In spite of this, workers handling money all day and also packaging your food somehow has become common.

Gloves don't really do as much as we think they do for protecting the person wearing them. Intact skin is a pretty good barrier and most viral infections occur when we touch our nose, mouth or eyes (or inhale aerosolized droplets from a sneeze/cough). A lot of us wore gloves because washing your hands 20 or more times in an 8 hour shift eventually chaps the skin and leads to breakdown of the skin- its easier to wash your hands once and then change gloves periodically. There's a reason why you see a box of gloves in every patient room in a hospital- the gloves should be changed between patients.

Most of the corn powder is on the inside of the latex gloves is there because it makes them easier to put on. There's a little on the outside that helps keep latex gloves from adhering to each other. There's been discussion about banning powder on the gloves because there are workers who develop an allergy to it.

A lot of the gloves that are used in the food service business are polyethylene or polyurethane plastic -it's quite thin and prone to breakage.



Plastic bags are a nightmare for the wastewater system. Our sewers and storm drains weren't designed for impermeable plastics.

Gloves are in short supply now. Can they be washed and reused?

 

[belamyi]

^ Of course they can: depends on what you want to use them for, and to avoid what.

 

[KaraBulut]

Gloves are in short supply now. Can they be washed and reused?

^ Of course they can: depends on what you want to use them for, and to avoid what.

It's not ideal but in third-world countries where supplies are limited, it happens quite often. Latex gloves don't hold up very well to reuse- mostly because they can be damaged when you take them off. Rubber gloves, polyurethane gloves and nitrile gloves tend to hold up better.

In healthcare settings, when workers are doing non-patient tasks, they do wash them with soap and water like one would wash hands. I suspect there may be more of that happening in areas where there is a shortage.

 

[cityboy-stl]

It's not ideal but in third-world countries where supplies are limited, it happens quite often. Latex gloves don't hold up very well to reuse- mostly because they can be damaged when you take them off. Rubber gloves, polyurethane gloves and nitrile gloves tend to hold up better.

In healthcare settings, when workers are doing non-patient tasks, they do wash them with soap and water like one would wash hands. I suspect there may be more of that happening in areas where there is a shortage.

Thanks. When I visit my 93 y.o. mother, gloves are required and they're hard to come by at the moment. I'll try to be careful when taking them off. I have a few but I don't want to run out. I have 3 N95 masks that I'm reusing as well.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

It's been my own assumption/observation that the places that have been banning plastic bags have only done so because they can see them along the roadsides, in the trees, etc. - not really about protecting the environment at all.

That's still a good reason to ban them.

 

[LeicsDom]

 

[Kahaih]

That's still a good reason to ban them.

Not nearly good enough if banning them causes people to die.

 

[KaraBulut]

Not nearly good enough if banning them causes people to die.

When localities ban plastic bags, the stores either ask you bring your own bag or they offer a paper bag. A few stores even gave a $1 credit if you bring your own bag.

If your concern is coronavirus, the studies say that the virus can survive on plastic for up to 3 days. It can survive on paper only about a day. So, using a plastic bag isn't really going to offer any benefit in terms of coronaviruses. Source.

But, let's pause for a moment and talk about relative risk.

SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that is responsible for the epidemic, is spread through droplets from the respiratory system or through stool. Most of the early cases that we saw were people who had some things in common: They traveled. They were in big crowds like at Mardi Gras or the Winter Party in Miami. They were on airplanes. They were in crowded places like airports, cruise ships, clubs, mass transit, etc. This second wave we're seeing is centered around cities where people live in close quarters or are on crowded subways/buses, etc.

Here's an example:

There were some early studies of a cluster of COVID-19 in people who went on ski vacations at an Austrian ski resort. In further investigation, a lot of the people in the cluster had gone to a particular restaurant/nightclub called Kitzloch. Below is a video from Kitzloch- notice how everyone is in close quarters and they're singing and laughing and sharing a lot of air. They were playing beer pong. They were sharing whistles.

The likelihood of getting the virus from a shopping bag is relatively low. You're more likely to get it from the person standing next to you in line or from the person bagging your groceries who will come into close contact with dozens of people on their shift.

This whole exercise we're going through is to avoid situations where we're in contact with people who might have the virus. Worry less about shopping bags and inanimate objects. Pay more attention to keeping about 6 feet distance from people. Wash your hands. Definitely avoid crowds. Wash your hands. Don't touch your face. Wash your hands.

 

[frankfrank]

The point of the gloves for the cashier is to avoid being infected, not avoid infected others: rather the contrary than with the food case, whose success, anyway, would depend on what else is involved in the process, mainly how gloves are taken off.

I take them off "hospital style" - I grab the very edge of one cuff, then I pull it off so that it turns inside-out. I take that inside-out glove, and grab the cuff on my other arm/hand, and I pull that second glove off so that it also goes inside-out.

Then I immediately wash my hands, including my forearms halfway to my elbows. These are the very first things that I do when I get home, then I immediately take all my clothes off (with another pair of gloves!), I take THOSE gloves off, and I go directly into the shower.

Only then, do I touch anything that I brought in - wearing yet another pair of gloves! I spray any packaging that I can, with disinfectant...and I let it sit a while. If it's something I don't need right away, and I don't have to chill or freeze, I'll put it in a "five day pile" which I don't touch until (you guessed!) five days later.

Sounds overly cautious, perhaps, but I also am in a high-risk group (72 years old).

Latex gloves don't hold up very well to reuse- mostly because they can be damaged when you take them off. Rubber gloves, polyurethane gloves and nitrile gloves tend to hold up better.

I first used nitrile gloves, but they are a BITCH to put on! Very difficult. Latex gloves are so much easier...also my latex gloves have a much longer cuff than the nitrile ones I was able to find first. (I actually had to order the late ones from Amazon, 25 pairs - couldn't find such anywhere - they're somewhat thicker than the standard disposable clear flimsy gloves.)

 

[Telstra]

If you look at this site,
china did a really good job for containing the virus in one province (Hubei):

https://ncov2019.live

 

[rareboy]

The US has hit another first with over 100,000 cases.

Remember when it was 15 cases and would be down to zero in a few days?

 

[rareboy]

Meanwhile in Canada. The cases keep increasing this week as we also move toward hitting the peak....with Quebec being the hardest hit. In other provinces, it looks like flattening the curve efforts are more successful at the moment.

https://www.macleans.ca/society/hea...-how-our-fight-to-flatten-the-curve-is-going/

 

[NotHardUp1]

Anyone who believes latex gloves deployed in the food service industry are for the protection of the employee is not paying attention to the process. Health department and OSHA violations always site the failure as a food contamination issue, not an employee exposure issue. The judicious and proper use of the gloves is to prevent contamination of foodstuffs from human born bacteria like ecoli, and from cross contamination when an employee touches unsanitary surfaces (like the cash register or credit cards) and then returns to handling food.

The crisis may give the appearance of protecting cashiers, but when the restaurant is not providing masks or taking any other substantive measures, it's really all for show, which is why infection rates continue almost unabated and conveniently, untested.

 

[KaraBulut]

28-Mar-2020:

Global COVID-19 Mortality/Morbidity
- Cases reported: 607,965 (up from 549,604) - *‬58,361 new cases yesterday
- Deaths: 28,125 (up from 24,863) - ****3,262‬ people died yesterday

US COVID-19 Mortality/Morbidity
- Cases reported in the US - 104,837 cases (up from 85,996 yesterday, ‬*‬18,841 new cases) 1,711 deaths


Across the globe:

• China, Italy and the US have been jockeying for the #1 position of "most cases". Today, US (104,837) is #1, Italy (84,498) is #2 and China (81,996) is #3.
• The variability in Italy's new case rate continues- daily rates have been in the 5,000 to 7,000 range for the past 5 days. The good news is that yesterday's cases was 3,909 - the first day that the new case rate has dropped below 5,000 since 19-Mar. We may be beginning to see the effects of their stay home mandate, finally. Unfortunately, their daily deaths hit an all time high of 919.
• Spain's daily new case rate was 1,660 where it had been in the 7,000 to 8,000 range for about a week. Their daily deaths also fell to 280, the lowest rate since 22-Mar.
• Daily new cases were high in the US (18,843 new cases, 22% increase), the UK (2,938, 25% increase), Turkey (2,069, 57% increase) and Netherlands (2,938, 25% increase). Things are heating up in the UK, where the editor of a major medical journal labeled the COVID-19 response there "a national scandal".
• Brazil has become a worrisome hotspot. Brazil had about 1,500 cases a week ago. Today, they are reporting 3,477 cases. Mardi Gras Carnaval was at the end of February in Rio. Remember that a delegation from Brazil was at MarALago and Miami, where they exposed Trump, Rick Scott and several Congressmen; they also infected the mayor of Miami. There were news reports that 40 people from the Brazilian delegation tested positive. In spite of this, the leader of Brazil, Jair Bolsonara is a COVID-19 denier.
• Epidemiologists have been watching India nervously because the country has a large population (>1 billion), a large group of poor people who live in close quarters, rural areas with poor sanitation and an already overburdened healthcare system. So far, India's reported cases has been low- 873 yesterday and 933 today.
• One of the puzzling statistics is that as Germany's case count has increased, their mortality has been low. Their case count today is 53,340
  but they have only reported only 395 deaths (0.07%). Germany coronavirus cases increased by nearly 13% in 24 hours, so while we assumed that they were well into their case increases, it may only be the beginning.
• South Korea reached a milestone: they have more recovered patients (4,811) than active patients (4,523).

Coronavirus cases/deaths in major countries:

• Italy - 84,498 cases (up from 80,589) - 9,134 deaths.
• China - 81,996 cases 3,299 deaths
• Spain - 65,719 (up from 64,059) - 5,138 deaths
• Germany - 53,340 cases (up from 42,478) 395 deaths
• Iran - 35,408 cases (up from 32,332 Friday) - 2,517 deaths
• France - 33.414 cases (up from 29,581) 1,997 deaths
• UK - 14,754 cases (up from 11,816) 761 deaths
• Switzerland - 13,187 cases (up from 11,951) 240 deaths
• South Korea - 9,478 cases (from 9,332) - 144 deaths
• Netherlands - 8,648 cases (up from 7,469) 547 deaths
• Canada - 4,760 cases (up from 4,046) 56 deaths
• Australia - 3,640 cases (up from 3,143) 460 deaths
• Brazil - 3,477 cases, 93 deaths
• Mexico - 717 (up from 585) 12 deaths
• New Zealand - 451 (up from 368) 0 deaths

United States updates:

• The situation in New York continues to deteriorate which emergency rooms across the NYC complaining about all of their beds being full of COVID-19 patients with patients on stretchers in hallways and stacked up to 3 stretchers deep in treatment rooms. There is a critical ventilator shortage. Some hospitals are considering making all COVID-19 patients do-no-resuscitate (DNR).
• Some governors have refused to issue stay-at-home orders. Florida has no stay-at-home order and was late in implementing very weak orders to reduce public gatherings. Florida has 3,192 cases (a 35% increase from yesterday). Georgia has no stay at home order in spite of their 2,198 cases (a 34% increase from yesterday); the public hospital in Atlanta has no beds available.
• The situation in Detroit and New Orleans continues to deteriorate which hospitals already complaining about increasing numbers of sick patients showing up in their emergency rooms.

Individual States with high case counts:

• New York - 44,635 (up from 37,258) 519 deaths
• New Jersey - 8,825 (up from 6,876) 108 deaths
• Washington - 3,723 (up from 3,207) 175 deaths
• California - 3,801 (up from 3,006) 78 deaths
• Michigan - 3,657 (up from 2,856) 92 deaths
• Illinois - 3,026 cases (up from 2,538) 34 deaths
• Florida - 3,192 (up from 2,353) 45 deaths
• Louisiana - 2,746 cases (up from 2,305) 119 deaths
• Massachusetts - 3,240 (up from 2,417) 35 deaths
• Georgia - 2,198 (up from 1,643) 65 deaths
• Pennsylvania - 2,218 (up from 1,687) 22 deaths
• Colorado - 1,734 (unchanged from 1,430) 31 deaths
• Texas - 1,731 (up from 1,424) 23 deaths
• Tennessee - 1,203 (up from 957) 6 deaths
  

Canadian Province Stats:

• Alberta - 542 (up from 486) 2 deaths
• British Columbia - 792 (up from 725) 16 deaths
• Manitoba - 39 (up from 36) 1 deaths
• New Brunswick - 45 (up from 33) 0 deaths
• Newfoundland/Labrador - 102 (up from 82) 0 deaths
• Northwest Territories - 1 case (unchanged from 1) 0 deaths
• Nova Scotia - 90 (up from 73) 0 deaths
• Ontario - 994 (up from 858) 18 deaths
• Quebec - 2,024 (up from 1,632) 18 deaths
• Prince Edward Island - 11 (up from 9) 0 deaths
• Saskatchewan - 104 (up from 95) 0 deaths
• Yukon - 3 cases (unchanged from 3) 0 deaths

There were also 13 Canadians on the Grand Princess, one of whom died.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

If your concern is coronavirus, the studies say that the virus can survive on plastic for up to 3 days. It can survive on paper only about a day. So, using a plastic bag isn't really going to offer any benefit in terms of coronaviruses.

The likelihood of getting the virus from a shopping bag is relatively low. You're more likely to get it from the person standing next to you in line or from the person bagging your groceries who will come into close contact with dozens of people on their shift.

This whole exercise we're going through is to avoid situations where we're in contact with people who might have the virus. Worry less about shopping bags and inanimate objects.

THIS. Absolutely.