On Topic Discussion 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2)

[belamyi]

The third booster would lose effectivity against omicron after 10 weeks: https://www.msn.com/es-es/salud/vid...récord/ar-AAS9XRy?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBpmbhJ

 

[Pierresro]

I don't think its as big a deal as the media is playing it. Are you worried?

Tomorrow evening going for my Booster a 3rd Covid shot

 

[belamyi]

 

[Kyanimal]

What I'm proposing here is totally unethical, but is it really?

Since the unvaccinated are clogging up the health care system, and those with other issues are possibly dying needlessly, because they can't get in, how about the hospitals rationing their capacity for the unvaccinated to, say, 50% of their availability, or so. When that % is occupied, the facilities are 'full' to those without jabs needing care for Covid.

As for the ethics, vaccines are readily available to just about Everybody. Those refusing them are making a choice. Their choice should not prevent responsible others from getting the treatments they truly need. If you choose not to take care of yourself, you should not be able to deny others what they need. Instead of turning those others away, why not turn away the irresponsible ones?

I realize the odds of that being put into practice, anywhere, is next to zero. Still ...

Thoughts?

 

[KaraBulut]

What I'm proposing here is totally unethical, but is it really?

Since the unvaccinated are clogging up the health care system, and those with other issues are possibly dying needlessly, because they can't get in, how about the hospitals rationing their capacity for the unvaccinated to, say, 50% of their availability, or so. When that % is occupied, the facilities are 'full' to those without jabs needing care for Covid.

As for the ethics, vaccines are readily available to just about Everybody. Those refusing them are making a choice. Their choice should not prevent responsible others from getting the treatments they truly need. If you choose not to take care of yourself, you should not be able to deny others what they need. Instead of turning those others away, why not turn away the irresponsible ones?

I realize the odds of that being put into practice, anywhere, is next to zero. Still ...

Thoughts?

Rationing has been going on for a while. Unless the patient meets admission criteria or can be transferred to another facility, they're treated and released. If you read over in the karma thread, there's multiple examples of unvaccinated people either choosing to go home or not being quite sick enough to be admitted. I've seen a few example where unvaccinated patients did this ER-home-ER-home process a few times before they were sick enough to be put on a ventilator.

In the US, EMTALA prevents emergency departments from sending patients home or to another facility until they are assessed and stabliized... or they go home against medical advice, so what you're proposing would not be legal if the facility accepts Medicare or Medicaid.

 

[belamyi]

Don't sweat it: if the situation got real bad, and there was a real national emergency involving national welfare and security through the collapsing of health services, you bet "legality" would change in the wink of an eye, and the "rights" of those patients would change like civil rights and democratic principles already did in the past, even if the government involved were the most progressive and egalitarian one could conceive.

 

[Rickrock]

Occasionally I feed my phantasy the same as Kyanimal's idea, but I know it is flawed and not going to happen.

 

[purina]

https://qr.ae/pGzm3k
"Face Mask Comparison Using Vaping"
[Video 3 min 22 sec, 7/14/20, Gregory Langston, 30,497 views]
Face Mask Comparison Using Vaping
(1) No mask
(2) Cloth mask
(3) Surgical $0.03
(4a) KN95 - poor fit
(4b) KN95 $0.45
(5) N95 $0.63

 

[KaraBulut]

Occasionally I feed my phantasy the same as Kyanimal's idea, but I know it is flawed and not going to happen.

I think most people are so frustrated with the unvaccinated and just plain angry at the anti-mask, anti-vax crowd that are acting like 2 year olds having a tantrum.

So far, the US government has been picking up the cost for the pandemic- that includes vaccines, anti-viral meds, monoclonal antibodies and inpatient healthcare. The public would probably be in favor of the government sticking the unvaccinated with the cost of their healthcare. Unfortunately, most of the unvaccinated people can't afford their healthcare, especially if they were hospitalized. What would likely happen if the unvaccinated were made financially responsible for their bills is that the hospitals and doctors won't get paid, especially if the patient dies.

The best place to take out your anger is the ballot box. Ohio's governor has done a pretty good job. But if I were a voter in Texas, Mississippi, South Dakota or Florida, I would be looking to send my governor into retirement (and possibly exile to a desert island).

 

[KaraBulut]

https://qr.ae/pGzm3k
"Face Mask Comparison Using Vaping"
[Video 3 min 22 sec, 7/14/20, Gregory Langston, 30,497 views]
Face Mask Comparison Using Vaping
(1) No mask
(2) Cloth mask
(3) Surgical $0.03
(4a) KN95 - poor fit
(4b) KN95 $0.45
(5) N95 $0.63

This time last year, we were getting a lot of research on the effectiveness of the masks on the original and alpha variants.

Where is that mask research on omicron? Something is different with omicron. It's true that somewhere around Hallowe'en, mask compliance dropped off, probably because the boosters gave everyone a false sense of security. On the other hand, we're seeing people who were being careful- triple vaccinated and mask-compliant who are getting breakthrough cases. Either the cloth and paper masks aren't sufficient to block omicron or our basic assumptions about how long the virus can survive outside the body aren't true for omicron.

One thing that is holding true and it is good news: the workers in emergency rooms and urgent care centers are still saying that the overwhelming majority of patients they are seeing are unvaccinated. They are seeing very few people with acute symptoms who were vaccinated and they are seeing even fewer people who received the booster. The vaccinated are asymptomatic or have the symptoms of a mild cold. The vaccines work.

 

[cityboy-stl]

I think most people are so frustrated with the unvaccinated and just plain angry at the anti-mask, anti-vax crowd that are acting like 2 year olds having a tantrum.

The best place to take out your anger is the ballot box. Ohio's governor has done a pretty good job. But if I were a voter in Texas, Mississippi, South Dakota or Florida, I would be looking to send my governor into retirement (and possibly exile to a desert island).

That would be a logical, rational, intelligent decision based on reason and facts. But you know the majority of people in those states who elect these governors, do not have the capacity to think on that level. As long as not getting vaccinated, not wearing a mask, not distancing, and taking zero precautions, cultivates their hate for Biden and Democrats and makes them feel superior while doing it, they would rather own the libs and die with Covid. "You can't tell me what to do!". They think they win if they keep the pandemic going because it reflects poorly on the president. Who cares how many die; we are winning! And so it goes on. Those who are causing the problem, continue to be allowed to control the public response and the public narrative, because they're never held accountable to experience the consequences of their own decisions.

 

[belamyi]

- - - Updated - - -

- CLICKABLE -

 

[KaraBulut]

That would be a logical, rational, intelligent decision based on reason and facts. But you know the majority of people in those states who elect these governors, do not have the capacity to think on that level. As long as not getting vaccinated, not wearing a mask, not distancing, and taking zero precautions, cultivates their hate for Biden and Democrats and makes them feel superior while doing it, they would rather own the libs and die with Covid. "You can't tell me what to do!". They think they win if they keep the pandemic going because it reflects poorly on the president. Who cares how many die; we are winning! And so it goes on. Those who are causing the problem, continue to be allowed to control the public response and the public narrative, because they're never held accountable to experience the consequences of their own decisions.

This thread isn't intended to focus on the political side of the pandemic but something to think about: statistical analysis is showing that the death rate in counties that voted for Trump are three times as high as the death counts in counties that voted for Biden.

The US has about 820,000 known deaths from COVID-19 related illnesses. We're still not at the end of the Delta wave because there are still people in ICUs who had Delta. There are about 1,500 people dying daily (most of whom were unvaccinated). Don't be surprised if we hit 1 million dead by the end of 1Q2022.

This pandemic is going to shift electoral demographics. It has killed off a lot of voters and the majority of those voters voted for Republican candidates.

 

[belamyi]

This pandemic is going to shift electoral demographics. It has killed off a lot of voters and the majority of those voters voted for Republican candidates.

So what their headstones will be shouting is not "libs pwned", but "freed[STRIKE]umb[/STRIKE]om fighter, plandemic victim".

 

[KaraBulut]

So what their headstones will be shouting is not "libs pwned", but "freed[STRIKE]umb[/STRIKE]om fighter, plandemic victim".

More likely, "Paid for by a GoFundMe".

 

[KaraBulut]

From a 25-November post:

I once heard a lecturer describe viral epidemics as a fire that always manages to find where the fuel is. When the virus runs out of fuel, the virus will adapt to attack a different type of fuel. In 2020, the fuel was people over age 65. Now that we have over 90% of people over age 65 fully vaccinated, the virus is adapting to attack new groups of people.

Viruses look for places where people are vulnerable. Right now, those places are in Alaska and the midwest where there is 30-40% of the people are not vaccinated. The fuel for the fire is also children under age 12 (which should get better as the 5-11 year olds get vaccinated).

A year ago with the original strains, children weren't getting the virus and when they were getting infected, they had asymptomatic cases. The virus has adapted to make children sick and in places like Texas and California, hospitals had pediatric floors overwhelmed with children with COVID-19.

And the new variant has found new fuel to burn:

New Omicron variant fills up children's hospitals [CNN]

A five-fold increase in pediatric admissions in New York City this month. Close to double the numbers admitted in Washington, DC. And nationwide, on average, pediatric hospitalizations are up 35% in just the past week.

The highly transmissible Omicron variant is teaming up with the busy holiday season to infect more children across the United States than ever before, and children's hospitals are bracing for it to get even worse.

"I think we are going to see more numbers now than we have ever seen," Dr. Stanley Spinner, who is chief medical officer and vice president at Texas Children's Pediatrics & Urgent Care in Houston, told CNN.

"Cases are continuing to rise between Christmas gatherings and we're going to continue to see more numbers this week from that," Spinner said in a telephone interview.

 

[belamyi]

More likely, "Paid for by a GoFundMe".

That too, in fine (golden) print, at the bottom.

 

[Peloso]

Well it's time for me to catch the 'rona I guess. One in sixty people are infected here in New York City, they say. Just about everyone I know has it. Just got a text from a client who has it. I'll bet there will be more.

Time for a self-imposed lockdown.

 

[Kulindahr]

Well it's time for me to catch the 'rona I guess. One in sixty people are infected here in New York City, they say. Just about everyone I know has it. Just got a text from a client who has it. I'll bet there will be more.

Time for a self-imposed lockdown.

Just don't forget the combination to that lock!

You reminded me...

Meanwhile, a buddy's brother, along with wife, and entire family, all who have had two shots, are all in the hospital, two in the ICU.

They're all out of the woods, the two out of the ICU and the rest home.

 

[KaraBulut]

Well it's time for me to catch the 'rona I guess. One in sixty people are infected here in New York City, they say. Just about everyone I know has it. Just got a text from a client who has it. I'll bet there will be more.

Time for a self-imposed lockdown.

There will be more. I don't think I've ever seen anything this contagious. Pretty much everyone who was near a group of people in the past week seems to be testing positive.

One of the first people diagnosed with omicron in the US attributes his infection to a trip to a karaoke bar. There were about 30 people in his group. Fifteen of them tested positive.

Silver lining: omicron is kicking delta's ass. Some areas are reporting that 90% of their new cases are now omicron.