On-Topic 47% of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

[BostonPirate]

You don't understand what payroll taxes are at all.

no?

Explain that to me then, champ. What are they? I am waiting with bended ear. If I know so little then educate me. Unless all you can do is say that someone is wrong without proof, once again.

 

[Kulindahr]

If you'd studied the Fair Tax at all, you would know that it is anything but punative to the poor.
In fact the Fair Tax levels the playing field completely when it comes to income.
Don't take my word for it, read the Fair Tax books, particularly those by Neal Boortz.

Unless it covers buying stocks and bonds and other financial goodies, it isn't fair at all.

 

[HenryReardon]

Unless it covers buying stocks and bonds and other financial goodies, it isn't fair at all.

That's absurd on the face of it.

 

[Kulindahr]

If you add some of the additional burdens imposed upon employers, you will see the minimum wage in a different light. Employers also pay FICA and medicare tax for benefit of employees. Many pay health care. Unemployment insurance tax. Liability insurance for negligence of employees. Etc, etc, All these are part of the employers cost of labor, and reduce what the employer can pay and remain competitive and profitable. They also make overseas employees look more attractive.

Nice, but those have nothing to do with the fact that the amount that wages should have risen is going to the wealthy who do nothing to crate wealth. Large corporations could be paying $90/hr and remain competitive if executives were paid sensibly.

 

[Kulindahr]

That's absurd on the face of it.

Why? A purchase is a purchase. A purchase of stock is just as much a purchase of a good as is that of a purse or a movie.

 

[BostonPirate]

Nice, but those have nothing to do with the fact that the amount that wages should have risen is going to the wealthy who do nothing to crate wealth. Large corporations could be paying $90/hr and remain competitive if executives were paid sensibly.

Corporations are also making record breaking profits at this point, so to say that they can't afford it is foolish. What they can't afford is a middle class unable to spend money and pay taxes WITH them. To rebuild a client base, the corporations need to pay rent on the cow they milk for a living.

Funny that the republicans here don't get that.

Thanks for posting that one!

 

[HenryReardon]

Why? A purchase is a purchase. A purchase of stock is just as much a purchase of a good as is that of a purse or a movie.

Whether such purchases are or are not taxed, the amount is the same, no matter who makes the purchase. Hence, fair. End of discussion.

 

[BostonPirate]

Whether such purchases are or are not taxed, the amount is the same, no matter who makes the purchase. Hence, fair. End of discussion.

so you've argued against your own idea.

 

[HenryReardon]

so you've argued against your own idea.

Not at all.

 

[opinterph]

If you'd studied the Fair Tax at all, you would know that it is anything but [punitive] to the poor.
In fact the Fair Tax levels the playing field completely when it comes to income.
Don't take my word for it, read the Fair Tax books, particularly those by Neal Boortz.

I’ve heard some political commentators suggest that the Romney tax plan will move the country closer to the FairTax by flattening tax obligations and eliminating many of the exceptions.

Governor Romney seems to think the FairTax needs to be redesigned before it is implemented, because it increases the burden on the middle class.

Q: Do you support the FairTax?

ROMNEY: The idea of a national sales tax or a consumption tax has a lot to go for it … But the way the fair tax has been structured it has a real problem and that is it lowers the burden on the very highest income folks and the very lowest and raises it on middle income people.

Mitt Romney – 2011 GOP Tea Party debate in Tampa Florida

 

[HenryReardon]

I’ve heard some political commentators suggest that the Romney tax plan will move the country closer to the FairTax by flattening tax obligations and eliminating many of the exceptions.

Governor Romney seems to think the FairTax needs to be redesigned before it is implemented, because it increases the burden on the middle class.

That last Romney quote simply shows that he hasn't really studied the Fair Tax. Had he actually done so, he wouldn't have said it.

Romney only has one good thing goine for him: He's not Obama, and that trumps everything else.

 

[Kulindahr]

Whether such purchases are or are not taxed, the amount is the same, no matter who makes the purchase. Hence, fair. End of discussion.

Thus you show that purchases should not be taxed.

 

[Kulindahr]

That last Romney quote simply shows that he hasn't really studied the Fair Tax. Had he actually done so, he wouldn't have said it.

Romney only has one good thing goine for him: He's not Obama, and that trumps everything else.

He's definitely not Obama -- Obama tells lies about one-tenth as often.

 

[HenryReardon]

He's definitely not Obama -- Obama tells lies about one-tenth as often.

Obama lies 100% of the time.

 

[bankside]

It is very helpful when calling someone a liar to actually list the lies. Doing that changes it from an insult to an argument, from opinion to knowledge.

 

[HenryReardon]

Listing the lies of Obama would take more time than I have. Suffice it to say that if Obama's lips are moving, you can be sure that he's lying.

 

[bankside]

That's an example of the completely unconvincing forgettable insult I'm talking about.

It's not even that hard.

I am persuaded that Obama has lied about his church involvement. I suspect he believes in god as theorised by christianity, but I don't think church was ever that important to him. I think he used church as a venue for being visible in his community.

Romney has lied about the cuts required to balance the US Federal budget. His math just doesn't add up, and I trust math more than either of them. I believe he also lied in his apology to the 47% of Americans he thinks are freeloading bums. I believe he was honestly giving his personal opinion in his original remarks, then lying about it when he got caught.

It's not hard to put forward statements for evaluation.

 

[Benvolio]

no?

Explain that to me then, champ. What are they? I am waiting with bended ear. If I know so little then educate me. Unless all you can do is say that someone is wrong without proof, once again.

Payroll taxes go into a separate fund to be paid out as social security, and in the meantime are invested in government securities. But someone who pays only payroll taxes is paying nothing for the support of the government. Nothing for defence or any of the other expenses of the government. He may pay gas, alcohol, tobacco, but no income tax.

 

[HenryReardon]

It is very helpful when calling someone a liar to actually list the lies. Doing that changes it from an insult to an argument, from opinion to knowledge.

Not unsurprisingly, someone has cataloged the lies of Obama:

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/fashion-shows/

 

[HenryReardon]

Payroll taxes go into a separate fund to be paid out as social security, and in the meantime are invested in government securities. But someone who pays only payroll taxes is paying nothing for the support of the government. Nothing for defence or any of the other expenses of the government. He may pay gas, alcohol, tobacco, but no income tax.

There hasn't been a separate fund since the sixties or thereabouts, when the Democrats merged the SS trust fund into the general revenue fund in an attempt to hide their war costs.

Government securities? No. It's all one big paper IOU which says that the government owes money to itself.
If a private business tried to do that, it wouldn't be allowed.