A long time coming...

[halubtsi]

Welcome to the club jockboy. I'm happy to hear that things worked out with your parents. Yes, the process has just begun, but at least the ball is rolling. It's been 6 years since I told my parents and they're still getting used to it. When they met my boyfriend, and his parents they still hadn't "accepted" it. When the break-up happened my dad thought that the heartbreak would be enough to make me "go for a girl next time." At the end of the day, though, I know my parents love me. They may not agree with certain aspects of my life, but they still love me. I know your parents are the same.

It's going to be hard for them because they can't "parade" you around to their friends like they used to. The people your parents don't necessarily like would, no doubt, already know about all the great things you've accomplished in life. I don't know about your parents, but I know that mine can sometimes have a "holier than thou" kind of attitude when talking about other people. It's a bit harder for our parents to throw stones now...even if it was only on occasion.

You may not want to bring up the subject with your parents again, but it may be beneficial to "remind" them from time to time that you're gay. I don't do it all the time, but every so often when I feel like discussing "relationships" or my view on it, or heartbreak or whatever....they're reminded that I'm gay. Comments like "my ex-boyfriend" or "when I find the right guy..." I don't want my parents to go into denial, so I speak very directly to them. In other words, just because I'm not with a guy right now, doesn't make me any less gay than I actually am.

Anyway, congratulations again jockboy. I'm glad that you can be yourself when you're with your parents.

 

[jockboy01]

Your parents been far away in the distance from your everyday life. Part of their education is to learn that gay people are as healthy/screwed up, happy/depressed and fabulous/boring as their straight counterparts.

Agreed. But hard to do when they don't know any gays currently and they don't want to talk to anybody. Oh well.

But you own the image of you- not your parents. You cannot control what your parents think or feel- but at the same time, you cannot let your parents' view of you be the determining factor in your relationship with them. It's up to you to open up your life so that they can get to know you- that's the only part of this that is really in your control

.

Yes, to an extent this is true. And I'm pretty open about who I am with them. The problem is that they just don't want to see it. When I try to explain how work sucks, they just say it'll get better. They don't want to see the parts of my life that are, only the parts they want to see and how they want to see them. And no matter how hard I try to show them who I really am, it really has never gotten through. They won't let it.

I don't know about your parents, but I know that mine can sometimes have a "holier than thou" kind of attitude when talking about other people.

Yes, I know what you mean here. I've never really liked that part.

Comments like "my ex-boyfriend" or "when I find the right guy..." I don't want my parents to go into denial, so I speak very directly to them. In other words, just because I'm not with a guy right now, doesn't make me any less gay than I actually am.

That's a good point. It's hard for me to do that, but I think you're right in that they could easily just forget about it and try to pretend it doesn't exist and hope it'll go away. The only thing in this whole ordeal (ok, the big thing, but not the only) that I feel bad about is if I ever have a serious relationship. I know that guys understand that families like mine exist, but it sucks that I'll likely never be able to take him home for holidays (this is of course assuming I ever have a serious bf haha so maybe the cart is before the horse on this one).

 

[ejbonk]

depression and acceptence would be the logical step,but people being people do backslide into the other previous 3 before acceptence.

 

[KaraBulut]

Yes, to an extent this is true. And I'm pretty open about who I am with them. The problem is that they just don't want to see it. When I try to explain how work sucks, they just say it'll get better. They don't want to see the parts of my life that are, only the parts they want to see and how they want to see them. And no matter how hard I try to show them who I really am, it really has never gotten through. They won't let it.

That's largely part of the "time-freeze" effect. In many ways, your parents will always see you as their child- often the age when you left home.

You've come out. But have you told them what you want and the kind of relationship that you want from them?

For example, "Mom, I'm sure it will get better. I don't want you to fix it- I just want you to listen to me complain!"

 

[halubtsi]

Jockboy, did your parents say that you couldn't bring anyone home? My parents said no such thing...Mind you, when I did tell them, first words out of my mom's mouth were..."Don't go too fast...He's your first..." That was actually pretty surprising, as I was expecting to hear that it was the end of the world. When I did take him home on vacation, we stayed in separate rooms. It's the Catholic side of things...My parents never allowed my brother to sleep in the same room with his girlfriend, or even let my sister's boyfriend sleep over. Basically, I acted the same way and followed the same rules that were established by my older siblings...It just so happened that my "significant other" was a guy. And yes, it was I who chose to follow the established rules. They weren't going to force me to. Now, if I was married to a guy, I'd assume that we'd be able to sleep in the same room together, since that's the established convention at my parents' place.

Jockboy, you may not have a bf now, but I'm positive that he'll find you and sweep you off your feet. Then when you tell your parents and they hear how happy you are...they'll probably warm up. Parents usually want to be a part of their children's lives and will offer up "olive branches" every so often. The challenge is to identify the "olive branches" because frankly, sometimes, they can be pretty offensive (though not intentionally).

 

[jockboy01]

did your parents say that you couldn't bring anyone home?

Yes, they said that. They didn't rule it out completely. But they said it would probably not be something that ever happen. So pretty close.

I'm positive that he'll find you and sweep you off your feet.

Uh huh. That only happened once.... and it wasn't an instant thing as you know. I don't see it happening any time soon with my busy life.

And I wouldn't care about sleeping in the same room... unless married of course.

We'll see if the olive branch happens. I honestly don't expect much progress or discussion until I have a bf... b/c that'll force the issue more.

But have you told them what you want and the kind of relationship that you want from them?

Not in the words you quote. But a while back I did explain to them that I'd like to have a real adult relationship with them where we could talk like adults and not feel like they were still treating me as their 29 year old child. It did no good.

 

[Lube]

It's those fucking gay pride parade videos that the news and Christian stations keep showing. They never show us going to work, paying bills and cleaning our toilets like the rest of the world.

Are you ashamed of gay pride videos?

It seems a little naive to think that gays are just str8 guys who like cock. We are humans, yes. But heteros, no.

To me, gay pride is not about saying "Accept us because we're just like you." Rather, it's saying "Accept us despite the fact that we're different."

But a while back I did explain to them that I'd like to have a real adult relationship with them where we could talk like adults and not feel like they were still treating me as their 29 year old child. It did no good.

It sounds like your parents have more problems than just your homosexuality. They need to see who you are today, not who you were or who they want you to be.

 

[KaraBulut]

It's those fucking gay pride parade videos that the news and Christian stations keep showing. They never show us going to work, paying bills and cleaning our toilets like the rest of the world.

Are you ashamed of gay pride videos?

Gay pride parades are pointless. Gay pride week? I'm entitled to the whole year, so why should I settle for a week?

</off topic>

 

[ejbonk]

A Little Pride Goes A Long Way.
Besides the Parade with the Lesbian Mom's and Gay Dad's Pushing Strollers with their Kids in them,Always ends up on the Cutting Room Floor at the TV Stations.
Affraid to Show,We are Real People to the World and not just Side show entertainment.

 

[jockboy01]

It seems a little naive to think that gays are just str8 guys who like cock. We are humans, yes. But heteros, no.

I go back and forth on gay pride events. I've been to two now. I'm not sure of the point and not sure I'm impressed by them.

At the same time, I don't think that gays and straights are as different as gay pride makes us out to be. I think that societal pressures push us toward a "lifestyle" that isn't as much us as we would like to believe. Most of the gays I know in "the scene" don't want to be there. But they feel like they "belong" there. I think it would behoove our entire community if the world saw us more as "straight guys who like guys" than as something "different". That "different" label has led to some serious problems in our community imo and is a mis-characterization. We are closer to straight guys than we'd like to admit in my experience.

 

[thehayesman]

Haha, good point. I don't think I would agree that we don't need a different identity and understanding of sexuality. But we are definately more like straight guys than girls psychologically speaking.

 

[Lube]

Well, since the Jockboy himself continued off topic...

I go back and forth on gay pride events. I've been to two now. I'm not sure of the point and not sure I'm impressed by them.

At the same time, I don't think that gays and straights are as different as gay pride makes us out to be. I think that societal pressures push us toward a "lifestyle" that isn't as much us as we would like to believe. Most of the gays I know in "the scene" don't want to be there. But they feel like they "belong" there. I think it would behoove our entire community if the world saw us more as "straight guys who like guys" than as something "different". That "different" label has led to some serious problems in our community imo and is a mis-characterization. We are closer to straight guys than we'd like to admit in my experience.

Haha, good point. I don't think I would agree that we don't need a different identity and understanding of sexuality. But we are definately more like straight guys than girls psychologically speaking.

[Emphasis added]
Well, physiologically, sure, we are seemingly just like str8 guys: we are horny, get erections, produce semen & sperm, can get women pregnant if we wanted to.

But, psychologically? Many studies have shown that our brains have significant differences from men, and some similarities to women:

http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch?query=gay+brain&submit.x=31&submit.y=6&submit=sub

That's not to say we are more like women than men. Just that we do have some brain differences from straight men. Being gay is more than just liking the cock.

Now, that's not to say that I believe that we should all dress up as drag queens or leather daddies for gay pride. I used to hate gay pride, when I first came out (there are probably posts of mine on JUB that say just that). But I'm coming around on that topic.

I mean, is a St. Patrick's Day parade highlighting the similarities between Irish folk and non-Irish folk? No, it's a celebration of Irishness, of differences.

Gay pride celebrates our differences, and lately have become inclusive enough to include two fathers with their kids or two moms with their kids in the parade.

The message is: Accept us because we're human, not because we're similar.

 

[KaraBulut]

The better metaphor for straight people is Mardi Gras.

If you've been to New Orleans for Mardi Gras, you see all sorts of drunk and extreme behavior by straight people. However, we don't call this a Straight Pride Fest.

And the Christian Broadcast Network isn't going to run a clip of a woman showing her tits at Mardi Gras everytime they do a story on heterosexual marriage. Nor do they run a clip of Irish people drunk at a St Patty's day parade anytime they do a story on Boston.

Once upon a time, these studies of the "gay brain" were being used to argue that homosexuality had a "nature" origin and therefore was a natural variant like left-handedness. The problem is that also opens up the Pandora's box of whether it's a dysfunction or abnormality of the brain- like migraine or manic-depression.

If you want equality, equal rights and equal access, then you also have to question whether these "differences" accomplish anything other than to promote that there's something separate and unnatural about gay people.

 

[Lube]

OK, so if Mardis Gras is the comparison, aren't there plenty of stories about the "excesses" at Mardis Gras? They may not be shown by the Christian Broadcast Network, but then that's not on their agenda.

10 or 20 years ago, Mardis Gras was much more sensational news than it is now. Sexuality is much more open than it used to be.

Likewise, people will soon get used to (if they haven't already) sensationalist stories about gay pride. The generation of people in high school and college right now just don't give a crap about sexuality, compared to previous generations. By the time a large group of them are voters, they'll be wondering why anyone even thought of preventing gay people from getting married. To them, gay pride is something they do with their gay friends for fun (like Mardis Gras).

I see your point about biological differences, but it's really no different than an increased incidence of Creutzfeld Jakob disease among certain Jews, or the fact that hypertension and sickle cell anemia are more common among Africans (blacks).

Oh, sure, fundamentalist Christians will want to "fix" these "problems", but you can't make the science go away.

 

[jockboy01]

If I managed to deny my sexuality to myself for 6 years, imagine what it must be like for a parent.

That's how I look at it.

As to gay pride, I know. I agree we are not the same as straights. But at the same time, it must not be seen as something to be cured. It's a difficult line to walk ultimately.

I agree that younger generations are much more tolerant of sexuality differences.... at least in the bigger cities. It'll take at least another generation or few to spread to the smaller towns imo.

 

[Inwood]

At the same time, I don't think that gays and straights are as different as gay pride makes us out to be. I think that societal pressures push us toward a "lifestyle" that isn't as much us as we would like to believe. Most of the gays I know in "the scene" don't want to be there. But they feel like they "belong" there. I think it would behoove our entire community if the world saw us more as "straight guys who like guys" than as something "different". That "different" label has led to some serious problems in our community imo and is a mis-characterization. We are closer to straight guys than we'd like to admit in my experience.

It's a funny line we walk when it comes to this subject in particular.

For decades the "gay culture" is what defined us all, whether or not we liked it. Within the gay culture is obvious divisions (bears, fetishists, twinks, etc.) but the glue that has bound us all together is our "alternative" lifestyle.

Now that gay culture is becoming more mainstream, the lines between "us" and "them" (them being heteros) are being muddled. TV has caught on to having gay characters and even entire shows devoted to gays. Traditionally gay neighborhoods in big cities are being overrun by heteros moving in with their families. More and more straights are accompanying their gay friends to gay bars.

And with all of this melding we hear complaints from within our community that our identity is slowly being incorporated into the mainstream. While I can appreciate this to a degree, we're getting what we wanted - acceptance, and with acceptance comes a certain loss of uniqueness. Unfortunately we can't have it both ways, and to a small degree I do sometimes feel like we should be able to keep our own "culture" but if we want full acceptance, including marriage rights, then we must be ready to accept that gay culture is no longer just for the gays.

In my observations it seems as if the younger generations aren't more accepting of gays, per se, but rather it's a non-issue for them. My brother and sister are 21 and 22 respectively and I've met most of their friends, all of whom think nothing of the fact that I'm gay. They've met my husband and none of them have ever had a problem with gays, at least as far as I know and from what my younger siblings have told me. I think for the first time we're seeing an entire age group where being gay is just like having red hair - it's something different, but who cares? That's what we've strived for, and at the same time it's an odd thing to witness and experience.

 

[3nipples]

A little bit belated, but congratulations!

Even if it didn't go any better than you expected, you've made a big step forward. Their reaction is not frozen in time. Give them a while to get over the shock and work out some of their guilt and they may come around yet... at least more than they have so far.

You probably mentioned this already but I forget. Are your sibs up to speed? If so, what's their take on your parents' reaction?

Big hugz

 

[jockboy01]

Are your sibs up to speed? If so, what's their take on your parents' reaction?

No, the brother doesn't know yet. I've put a few calls into him but he's been a busy as of late. I think he'll take it okay ultimately. Honestly, I'm just tired of the BS... I don't do drama and don't care to start now.

 

[chance1]

I go back and forth on gay pride events. I've been to two now. I'm not sure of the point and not sure I'm impressed by them.

At the same time, I don't think that gays and straights are as different as gay pride makes us out to be. I think that societal pressures push us toward a "lifestyle" that isn't as much us as we would like to believe. Most of the gays I know in "the scene" don't want to be there. But they feel like they "belong" there. I think it would behoove our entire community if the world saw us more as "straight guys who like guys" than as something "different". That "different" label has led to some serious problems in our community imo and is a mis-characterization. We are closer to straight guys than we'd like to admit in my experience.

never been to gay pride - don't wanna go - not sure if that will ever change - any pix or video i see ............. tells me im right not to go

i used to think it was fucked up - strange - hated it - now i realize it's not any of those things - its just not me - or for me that is

getting more comfy with being who i am im beginning to notice that how i am is diff from a majority of gays i meet - i m str8 acting - its that simple - jockish - and i could start describing it but it would seem like a knock at feminine types - more drama types - prob sounds bad

im not gonna change now - im just more tolerant of how others are/act

and i totally agree with u on us being str8 guys who like guys - love that - that's kinda what i am

really good post JB

 

[jockboy01]

never been to gay pride - don't wanna go - not sure if that will ever change - any pix or video i see ............. tells me im right not to go

You should check one out, just to say you've done it. Like much of our lives, the pix/video make out to be more than it is. It's really quite.... well, boring haha. The LA one seemed like it would have been fun... had I not been at it alone.

im not gonna change now - im just more tolerant of how others are/act

I think that's an excellent place to be!

As to being different from the majority of gays... maybe, maybe not. I've met a lot of gay guys who aren't scene guys. More than I ever thought there were. It's just we're not all in the same place.