About a boy.... and is an LDR worth it

[Soilwork]

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I have yet to meet anyone who did not have issues, either happening or waiting to happen. The day I meet a man without any issues is the day I meet a dead man. Just my opinion.

Well, that's true... but why go with the ones you KNOW are going to cause big problems?

I mean we're not talking about my fear of clowns, we're talking about someone who is going to be afraid to be your boyfriend out in the open, and if he IS planning on comign out, is going to be relying heavily on Jockboy for support that he'll not be able to give (not only because of the distance but because he himself isn't really out yet).

hey... I don't think anyone is saying that he should walk forward into the hornet's nest.

But I'm sure that I'm getting called "The bully" here for telling him to stay away from what I see as an unwinnable game.

 

[chance1]

Life is about risk taking - I think I've read you kinda write that Soilwork. About taking chances - coming out, being who you are, etc. I agree with you sometime, understand where you are coming from usually

On this, he should back off?

Why not try to find out what up? how this guy really feels? what's the harm in that?

why not be optimistic about the real possibility that jockboy's friend is in fact gay and loves him? it could be and based on what I've read, there's a good chance of it

Your 1-4 "if he's got a girlfriend" reasons are all based on a negative assumption.

Lots of gay guys had girlfriends before they figured it out. It's not a crime and doesn't make them bad people or not worthy of you taking a risk.

 

[jockboy01]

"Homewrecker"?? - if he is gay, how could u be that? why all of a sudden are you getting traditional on this one?

Well, I don't know much at all about his relationship with his gf. Her name has only come up twice... and once was to tell me that he can't be himself around her like he is with me. So I have no sense as to how much he cares about her. The last thing I want to do is make him feel he has to choose between two people he cares about. And let's be honest, she'd probably be hurt if everything worked out the way I want it. And I don't like for people to get hurt.

From all of your posts jockboy, I honestly cannot believe you are on the fence on this one. You have tremendous instincts.

Is there something missing that you are not sharing here? I only ask because this doesn't seem like a 1-way thing at all.

Well, thanks. But giving advice to others is easy b/c there aren't any personal feelings involved so I can look at things objectively. In this case, I spend an inordinate amount of time trying to sort out if the clues I see are really there or I just want them to be. I'm pretty sure they're there but I'm a huge skeptic when it comes to my ability to judge things with a guy I like. No, nothing here I'm not sharing.

If you need money for the plane ticket, let me know.

Thanks for the offer, but no, I can cover it. If you could arrange for more time off sooner than october though I would appreciate it.

Thanks luminum, we kind of came to similar answers on this one over the last half day or so. I kind of need closure on this issue.

It sounds like you're both trying to express more feelings than either of you is comfortable with, mainly because you're afraid of being rejected by the other. The result is that you are both daring the other to react by pushing against the boundary.

Pretty much how I see it as well. I couldn't have said it better. As to the not waiting... I don't know. I wouldn't even know where to begin. I like the idea of siphoning off by telling him I'm gay. But I like the in person coming out best. That way I can judge body language as well as voice inflections. Pauses aren't awkward etc. The other option is email but it is so impersonal. However, it is easy to express myself in that medium and gives him time to think about things before responding. So I don't know. I still lean toward october... after all, we've been this way for about year now anyway so what's few more months other than torture to my psyche.

Thanks muscleboy82000. I'm pretty sure he'd take my coming out just fine. He's not homophobic on any of his ideas. As to the rest... I'd have to see.

It seems to me that this is your life right now and that this is the most important relationship in it. Why end this chapter prematurely. Why not let it play out and see where it goes?

True on all accounts. But there is the part of me that says to just let things play out. Except for our distance, it does just get better to this point. So why rock the boat is the other side of things.

I think if he had feelings for you, he'd have a lot on his hands too.

Most definitely. And his educational load is kind of heavy this year too so I don't want to overload him. This has come into my consideration as well.

For our LDR, I don't even want to count the miles. We're on different continents, but we've done pretty good. This month was our 1 year 1 month.

Congrats!! So have you ever regretted having a LDR? I mean, let's face it, there's something to be said for having a bf actually physically present for you when you need him after a hard day or whatever.

Centexfarmer... I don't know what to say. It's such a bitter sweet story. Sorry the bitter came after the sweet instead of before.

Well, I think you knew THIS was coming.

If he's got a Girlfriend, he isn't yours, and you need to back off.

Yeah, I actually thought I would get that from more people to be honest. You're correct in that he is not out. And I know there would be a bundle of issues there, but I'm okay with going through that with him if need be. I would agree that I would never be his bf while he kept his gf... it's not fair to her or I. But I'm not sure how I would feel about being a dirty little secret. Part of me would be hurt but I would understand. I'm not going to lie, there is a big part of me that agrees with you that I should just lay off. I just wish I didn't like him SO damn much and that would be a lot easier. I thought this distance would help with things (everybody says that it does) but it doesn't. Maybe I should just not talk to him for a LONG time. But even if didn't work, I'd love to keep him as a friend still... he's such a great person. Not sure how possible it would be as I really need to get over him if I decide this path. But with everything, I do still think this path seems so much better, so much more logical. LDR for three years? come on, I don't know if I can do that, much less ask him to.

Oh.. to sum up... you live in California now. There are plenty of available gay men around every corner, and they're out, not saddled with girlfriends, and would be happy to meet you.

Well, kind of. First, not so many here. More in LA so next year might be easier. Second, forming a relationship with anybody isn't my strong point. Third, the only place I've met guys is at bars/clubs which as we all know isn't a great place to meet them. I have a great time at these places, but I never am there to meet "Mr. Right". I'm just there to have a good time.

I'll see you on thursday and we'll go dance with porn stars. Sound fun?

Sounds like a blast, and it's still another few weeks away. By then, I'll be dying to go out again.

Well, basically, you've all covered the issues I've been mulling over. I'm a bit surprised at the strong sense that I should do this sooner and not in person as well as nobody seeming to think that the gf is a big deal except soilwork. Luckily I start work again tomorrow and won't have time to think about him for a bit. But I think I'll take 3nipples' advice and write an email here shortly and sit on it for a bit. Thanks for all of the input thus far.

 

[Soilwork]

You're correct in that he is not out. And I know there would be a bundle of issues there, but I'm okay with going through that with him if need be.

As long as you're walking into it with your eyes open... but I still think it's a bad idea. There are taking chances and then there's jumping face first into an empty swimming pool.

I would agree that I would never be his bf while he kept his gf... it's not fair to her or I. But I'm not sure how I would feel about being a dirty little secret. Part of me would be hurt but I would understand.

meh.... I think the "understand" part would dry up soon. But I have a very short patience when I feel like I'm not being treated like an equal.

the only place I've met guys is at bars/clubs which as we all know isn't a great place to meet them.

no. It isn't.

Jsut join a baseball team or something, ok? Don't MAKE me come up there.

I'm a bit surprised at the strong sense that I should do this sooner and not in person as well as nobody seeming to think that the gf is a big deal except soilwork.

I'm used to being the only person with a level head and the guts to be a bully when my friends need bullying.

 

[jockboy01]

no. It isn't.

Jsut join a baseball team or something, ok?

But it's very easy to pick up boys at the bar.... just not easy to find good bf's there. We've been down the baseball team thing before. First I suck at baseball.... I know I know... jockboy suck at baseball? How can this be? But really, I played it for one year and hated it. Other teams... I don't really have the time right now. Hell, I'm not even on any str8 teams at this point. Hopefully, I can make that change next year when I'm there in LA. Even if I had time here, there aren't that many sports teams here that I or my friends can find. We've been looking. Maybe a ski weekend this winter is possible if I can find out how to find out about one. Have to see.

I'm used to being the only person with a level head and the guts to be a bully when my friends need bullying

Haha... yes, I appreciate it. Even if I don't always agree with it.

 

[jockboy01]

Alright, here's an idea. As I reread through it... I don't think I like it. LOL, what a surprise. What's missing?

Dear ______,

Glad to hear that the year is going well. Probably best to read this when you have some time as it is going to be long.

This is a conversation that is long overdue. It's something I really wanted to talk to you about before I left town in the spring but it never seemed to be the right time or place. So I took it as a sign that it just wasn't supposed to happen. But unfortunately, it hasn't been that easy.

You might already know what I'm about to tell you so this might be all for nothing. But I want, no, I need to say it anyway. And you deserve to hear it also. Because you can't know all of me, until you know that I'm gay.

There, I've said it... you know. I don't know that there is much else to say really so maybe it won't be as long as I thought. I hope this isn't a problem for you and ask that you not tell _____ and ______. I'm not nearly as close to them as I am with you and don't feel everybody needs to know. But I felt you deserved to hear it from me personally.

Again, sorry I wasn't able to tell you this in person. I hope it's not a problem for you. Feel free to ask questions if you like or leave any comments.

 

[Soilwork]

Maybe a ski weekend this winter is possible if I can find out how to find out about one. Have to see.
.

I'll make sure you get the invite to the gay ski weekend at Big Bear this winter.

You can come meet all of my BF-potential friends.

 

[sp0540230]

Congrats!! So have you ever regretted having a LDR? I mean, let's face it, there's something to be said for having a bf actually physically present for you when you need him after a hard day or whatever.

Regretted it? Never. Still going strong and well, so far we're going good. If I'm not wrong, there's a saying, "Love knows no boundaries". So far its worked for us, and we've still got a few years to get through. About being physically present, yeah. You do miss that kind of stuff I will admit. But whenever he replies, it totally makes my day. And we communicate as often as we can, so that does help indeed. Even the smallest things, like him picking out a meaningful song touches ya really deep. Its hard, but if you put yer mind to it, it can work. I've never regretted loving him although we're so many thousand miles away, never. He led me to realise who I am and I became more comfortable with that. It helps if you do have mutual friends.

However, not every case is the same I must say. What works for one couple may not work for another. You need to balance each scenario. Pretty much like every illness has a different remedy, so do LDRs. What may work for me may not for you. LDRs need a LOT of committment on both sides. So hope that has left ya some insight whether to pursue this. I believe you've a good head on yer shoulders dude.

 

[jockboy01]

I'll make sure you get the invite to the gay ski weekend at Big Bear this winter.

You can come meet all of my BF-potential friends.

cool cool. Hope they can ski (b/c skiing is my anti-baseball)... or else there is always the after skiing bars which are fun too. I need to work on getting my skis out here.

Fuck it babes......go for it and what is the worst that can happen?????

Kind of true. There's not much down side really... esp with the distance. But the down side is more for him if I screw his head up by doing this. I'd feel bad if that happened.

I'm so bipolar it's ridiculous. Now I'm thinking that the best plan might be to lay low and see how things work out until october. I don't understand why this has to be so damn complicated.

 

[Riverrick]

About the letter. I'm not crazy about you saying (more than once) "I hope this isn't a problem for you". Clearly that's what you're worried about and you seem to want reassurance that he's ok with you being gay. The only problem is that it comes off as kind of negative.

Don't suggest to him that it would be normal for him to have a problem with you being gay. Just ask him to reply with his thoughts and feelings. Tell him its important to you to hear something back from him.

That's IF you haven't scrapped the letter by now. You seem even more confused at this point than when you started the thread.

 

[dkonfrost]

2 cents here!

you took the first big step and was honest with him with the letter. that's a good start. when you find out his reaction from that, then you can take your next steps.

i won't be dispensing too many words because i like and echo Soilwork's responses, very sound advice!

btw, go to http://www.nagva.org
NAGVA is the North American Gay Volleyball Association (indoor), i've played in a few tournaments in the LA area, and i've made a few good friends and really enjoyed playing the weekend tourneys. I think you'll meet more gay friends outside of the bar/club scene. and besides, they'll share a love of volleyball too!

 

[3nipples]

I think it's clear that he is your friend.

You know that he likes you
You know that he is not homophobic​

You don't know if he's gay.

He could be bi and want conventional marriage and kids
He could be gay, but want you as a friend and not BF
He could be gay and in the closet​

Worrying about the things you don't know or the girlfriend or the things that might come to be is a waste of time. You're putting the cart before the horse and allowing yourself to be paralysed into inaction.

He is your friend and regardless of all of your hopes of what might be, you should be building on what is: your friendship with him.

Waiting until October seems like a good idea. It certainly would let you postpone something that you are uncomfortable doing. So what if the same conditions prevail as the ones just before you left two months ago? The time is right when you make it right.

His statement is an ideal opportunity for you to start that necessary dialog with him, but the more days that go by the more awkward it becomes. You don't need to say everything that you are feeling/thinking/agonizing over all in one shot. Just start with a few simple sentences.

 

[jockboy01]

Thanks for the comments riverrick. You're right, it does sound like being gay is a bad thing. And yes, probably am more confused now than when I started... not really.

Thanks for the info dkonfrost. I used to play with some gay guys in DC. vball players are more fickle by nature for some reason though. So in there it talks about being rated? Never did that. Just played BB or A depending on who else was on the team. Better possibility of that next year though when I'm actually in LA. Hard this year to commit to anything down there sadly.

Very true 3nipples. I can say that if he is gay, he's definitely closeted. The question there is if he is closeted to himself. If that's the case... well, then he might as well be str8. And you're right about being paralyzed by inaction.

I'm leaning toward waiting until october right now. As to making things happen... I assure you I tried b4 I left and failed at both attempts to go out together alone at the end. And when we were together, we just had too much fun and there was never a place for "deeper" conversation. I realize it may be that way in october too. Everything between us just flows so easily that there are never any real awkward pauses or anything that would make a good segway.

 

[pausanias_usa]

I think the letter was a bit over-dramatic; big buildup, apologetic, etc.

Just a simple note like you always send, then at the end add "oh, btw, since we're close I thought I should let you know I'm gay before anyone else tells you; but you probably guessed already."

EOM.

 

[dkonfrost]

you're welcome. it's something to consider for when you're here in LA for a while and not city hopping. the rating system occurs when you play for the first time. i've never seen you play, but i have a feeling you're A caliber. when you're down here and you decide to sign up for a tourney, i'll try to sign up in the same tourney so i can make sure you get to know the folks i know from NAGVA (hope they're still active!).

oh, and I also forgot to mention this (for what it's worth): If you really are very very close to the guy, you shouldn't have to feel awkward with this revelation. If anything, it does show that you value your bond with him. Like i said in my previous response, you already put forth the first attempt to segue into that conversation. Feel your way from there.

i know you like the guy very much, but being that there are tons of wild cards in the deck, i suggest keeping your relationship on a friend level. at least for now.

ok, in theory, if he DOES confess to being gay/bi, that also brings another set of complications, namely the girlfriend. i suggest letting him deal with his personal stuff with being gay and having a girlfriend and such first. basically, don't get involved with him if he's still trying to make sense of HIS sexuality.

oops, so much for not saying too many words. that makes it 4 cents now?

 

[Riverrick]

I don't really have anything to say. dkonfrost said it all.

I just wanted to post something with my new signature. You inspired me.

 

[jockboy01]

Yeah, maybe it was overdramatic. I didn't send it yet... not sure I will.

Thanks for the info on NAGVA. I'll take you up on that next year probably. Thanks for the other input too. I hear you about the friend thing. And if I didn't have such strong feelings for him that would be easy. I'm totally willing to let him deal with any issues he has first. But I have any issues with him having those issues.

Nice sig Riverrick Isn't more fun when it has a personal touch to it? I think so.

 

[halubtsi]

All the advice given has been good so far. I don't have much to add except, DON'T DO IT BY E-MAIL. I sent e-mails to 2 of my openly gay friends, and it was just a passing comment. "Hey how's school, etc...btw, in case you haven't heard yet, I came out last week." The one e-mail I sent to a st8 friend, she didn't write back for a few days. Not only was the e-mail written in French, it was "deep" like the example that you showed us. It really did a number on my psyche for the next few days.

Waiting for October is up to you, but just as 3nipples said (and as you alluded to in your reply) the "right time" may not present itself. You are the one who determines the right time. If your peace of mind is at stake, I don't think that it's particularly beneficial to wait another 2 months. E-mail is definitely not the way to go. IM is better than e-mail, but you still lack the ability to sense his reaction. The phone is the best long-distance means of coming out, since you have the ability to sense his tone of voice and reaction. From what I gather, not being completely open with him is causing you duress, so I'd suggest telling him sooner rather than later. And in case you ask "what should I tell him?" Tell him that you're gay. Just take it one step at a time, one foot in front of the other. Right now, you have a formula with too many variables and thus, have an inifinite number of possible outcomes. Fill in the variables one at a time.

 

[jockboy01]

Thanks Halubtsi. But waiting I think is looking like the best option. Work has picked up (too much really) and so I don't have the time to think about him right now. So the duress has pretty much subsided. Good thought on the email. I never thought about how it would drive me crazy waiting for a response. And it would.

Thanks for the example stlhotboi21. I guess it can work... as long as both parties are willing to work at it and make it work. Not sure if either of us would be right now. But one step at a time for now.

 

[jockboy01]

Well, not to dredge up an old thread... but I'm going to haha.

Lots happened since this. First, he broke up with his gf a few months back... and then called me to tell me that (which I thought was strange, but whatever).

Anyway, I saw him recently and the timing just worked out... so I "told" him I was gay (in quotes b/c it was subtle and not this "I need to tell you something" conversation). It went really well and we discussed homosexuality in a cultural and religious sense in general. Our relationship didn't change at all (which I didn't think it would, but there's always that fear) and we continue to flirt with each other.

He didn't admit to being gay or attracted at all to guys... and honestly I didn't expect him too. But he did comment about how his parents would feel if he were gay which I found interesting as I don't think str8s ever really think about that. But whatever. The long story short is, I finally told him and the ball is in his court. I still like him a LOT. But at the same time, we live a long ways from each right now and we're not on the same page in terms of self realization. So he'll always hold a special place in my heart but I'm not going to sit around waiting for things to work out. And I think that is the best plan. I still miss him a lot out here... even though it has been a year since we lived in the same city... but I think that is probably quite normal.