Active Duty's Axl tattoo controversy

[ezwriter]

Re: Active Duty update thread

I dunno, saying that the people in those minority groups are all domestic help? Kinda stereotypical, if you ask me. If I said that, just imagine the hell storm that would cause.*

Aside from the fact that I myself belong to two of the three minority groups I mentioned, and have several family members in the third, I'd love to know how you, in your head, can morph what I actually said into me somehow saying that "the people in those minority groups are all domestic help".

Not to mention the bizarro ethics code that allows you to find what I said "horrifying", while remaining 100% in the corner of an obvious one-time, (and possibly still) neo-Nazi and the employer that hires and defends him.

 

[Soilwork]

Re: Active Duty update thread

I'd love to know how you, in your head, can morph what I actually said into me somehow saying that "the people in those minority groups are all domestic help".

Because it's exactly what you said. Who you are is irrelevant.

Not to mention the bizarro ethics code that allows you to find what I said "horrifying", while remaining 100% in the corner of an obvious one-time, (and possibly still) neo-Nazi and the employer that hires and defends him.

Well because to me, it's not "obvious" until I can hear something from him. I'm certainly not going to take YOUR word for it.

 

[ezwriter]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Because it's exactly what you said.

My original statement:

"Maybe that's because you're not a Jew, or black, or Latino, and you apparently don't allow anybody who is within 10 miles of your studio, unless they're mowing the lawn or cleaning the toilet."

Your interpretation of my statement:

"the people in those minority groups are all domestic help"

Yep. That's EXACTLY what I said...

Because I'm on here defending my own people, who I'm apparently, according to you, racist against. Makes tons of sense.

 

[JayQueer]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Well because to me, it's not "obvious" until I can hear something from him. I'm certainly not going to take YOUR word for it.

Jasun,

Then please go and interview "Axl" and post the video interview on your blog, or some place where we can see it.

From what I can tell, Dink keeps all of his models on a pretty short leash as they are all exclusive to his site. I can't think of any interviews his models have ever given to any blogs or websites, other than through Dink's own websites directly.

Even from Dink's explanation above, we don't even know if "Axl" is even aware about the controversy surrounding his tattoos.

 

[Soilwork]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Because I'm on here defending my own people, who I'm apparently, according to you, racist against. Makes tons of sense.

Oh I'm sorry.

At what point did any of this totally hysterical clusterfuck of a thread start to make "sense?"

I must have missed that part.

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Oh brother, where to begin?

I did not realize his tattoos could be construed as racial remarks displayed on his body for all to see.

I don't think anyone believes that you did. However, you know NOW. There can be no question in your mind NOW that you are featuring a model covered in racist tattoos and it's OFFENSIVE that you continue to defend it and choose to continue to use him in the future.

But once I'd relayed the explanation that he gave me and found that it wasn't good enough for some people what was I supposed to do?

What were you supposed to do? How about the right thing?

"Axl, I believe you when you say that the tattoos had no racist meaning to you, but they are symbols of the Aryan Brotherhood and are being seen as racist and offensive to minorities. Regardless of your intention, I can't support or condone racism and I'm afraid I won't be able to use you in the future."

Just as it makes many of you quick to judge and determine the truth based on tattoos that legitimately can have more than one meaning as many people have pointed out.

They don't have more than one meaning when they are grouped together as they are.

I did not share Axl on Active Duty to offend anyone.

Again, although I'm loathe to speak for others, I can't imagine anyone thinking that you did. I personally NEVER thought you were a racist (I wouldn't have ever joined your site if I thought that) and never thought you INTENTIONALLY displayed a model with AB tattoos, but the bottom line is that you did feature him and it IS offensive.

At first everyone was drooling over Axl all over the blogs (including some of you who have since changed your stance) until suddenly a couple of posters (who rarely, if ever post) pointed out the possible negative meaning that his tats have---albeit they legitimately have dual meanings-- it just depends on which meaning you decide to interpret or what meaning they have to Axl.

I'm not sure why this matters but, of course, if no one knew what the tattoos meant they wouldn't even think to be offended. He's a beautiful kid but, ultimately, so what? We know NOW what they mean. They are offensive! Also offensive, again, in this insistence on wanting (desperately) to shoot the messenger and make this about the people who pointed it out and complained. What MEANING they may have had to Axl is ultimately unimportant. They ARE what they ARE.

Regardless, I find the sudden one-sided approach to tats that have duality very interesting to say the least. I also find it highly likely that this whole mess was an intentional attack on Axl by that other company in order to ruin his reputation and have him attacked.

That is just DELUSIONAL. Are you saying that this "other company" either convinced him to get racist tattoos or went on wikipedia to change the meanings of his tattoos so that they would appear racist? The mess was originally created by the model and perpetuated (and made 100 times worse) by your follow up.

Regardless of the decision of the JUB MODS to ban Axl from the forums, he will remain working for active duty as our MEMBERS really love him. All of the email feedback that I've gotten from our members have been positive. I have yet to receive a single email that addresses the subject of his tats. It's apparent from all the feedback that I've gotten that they really like him.

So, to be clear, you are now actively going to promote a model with white supremacy tattoos on your site because your customer base is "cool with that"?

I will definitely be featuring more of Axl.

I guess that answers that.

Today, I remain opposed to racism or hatred of people based on their race, creed or religion because I have seen the unhealthy and sometimes violent effects it has on people and their lives first hand.

Unless that opposition comes between you and a dollar, apparently

Most site owners wouldn't bother and don't bother posting here much less giving a shit about how a few people feel.

You just gave a long, rambling speech about how you DON'T give a shit about how a few people feel as long as the majority of your consumer base is "cool" with racist advertising.

Every time you say something you make it worse and it infuriates me that you JUST DON'T GET that a) This is no joke b) It is NOT okay to promote racism either wittingly or unwittingly c) This is NOT a plot cooked up to being you down and d) This is NOT about the posters in this forum no matter how badly you want it to be!

 

[ACTIVE DUTY]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Oh brother, where to begin?



I don't think anyone believes that you did. However, you know NOW. There can be no question in your mind NOW that you are featuring a model covered in racist tattoos and it's OFFENSIVE that you continue to defend it and choose to continue to use him in the future.



What were you supposed to do? How about the right thing?

"Axl, I believe you when you say that the tattoos had no racist meaning to you, but they are symbols of the Aryan Brotherhood and are being seen as racist and offensive to minorities. Regardless of your intention, I can't support or condone racism and I'm afraid I won't be able to use you in the future."



They don't have more than one meaning when they are grouped together as they are.



Again, although I'm loathe to speak for others, I can't imagine anyone thinking that you did. I personally NEVER thought you were a racist (I wouldn't have ever joined your site if I thought that) and never thought you INTENTIONALLY displayed a model with AB tattoos, but the bottom line is that you did feature him and it IS offensive.



I'm not sure why this matters but, of course, if no one knew what the tattoos meant they wouldn't even think to be offended. He's a beautiful kid but, ultimately, so what? We know NOW what they mean. They are offensive! Also offensive, again, in this insistence on wanting (desperately) to shoot the messenger and make this about the people who pointed it out and complained. What MEANING they may have had to Axl is ultimately unimportant. They ARE what they ARE.



That is just DELUSIONAL. Are you saying that this "other company" either convinced him to get racist tattoos or went on wikipedia to change the meanings of his tattoos so that they would appear racist? The mess was originally created by the model and perpetuated (and made 100 times worse) by your follow up.



So, to be clear, you are now actively going to promote a model with white supremacy tattoos on your site because your customer base is "cool with that"?



I guess that answers that.



Unless it comes between you and a dollar, apparently



You just gave a long, rambling speech about how you DON'T give a shit about how a few people feel as long as the majority of your consumer base is "cool" with racist advertising.

Every time you say something you make it worse and it infuriates me that you JUST DON'T GET that a) This is no joke b) It is NOT okay to promote racism either wittingly or unwittingly c) This is NOT a plot cooked up to being you down and d) This is NOT about the posters in this forum no matter how badly you want it to be!

It's easy to truncate my response to serve as proof of your point. I could just as well go back and truncate it for the positive points it made to refute what you just went through a lot of painstaking truncation to do. Why bother? You've made up your mind. I accept your opinion, even if I don't share it. We don't have to agree. And truncating my response to fit your opinion is using my own words against me while misconstruing their intentions as a whole.

If you are intent on proving your point go back and truncate it in the opposite way and respond to my positive points as well to further make your point. Just saying.

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

Re: Active Duty update thread

So now you're going to blame a "bad edit"? LOL

There is not one thing that was taken OUT OF CONTEXT in my post or edited to make you say something that you didn't say. You just keep deflecting.

Bottom line is that you are going to continue to feature a model covered in racist tattoos because it's going to make you a buck and you don't care to hear anything else.

You sir, make pornographers look bad.

Go ahead, refute my bottom line, tell me I'm wrong.

 

[ACTIVE DUTY]

Re: Active Duty update thread

So now you're going to blame a "bad edit"? LOL

There is not one thing that was taken OUT OF CONTEXT in my post or edited to make you say something that you didn't say. You just keep deflecting.

Bottom line is that you are going to continue to feature a model covered in racist tattoos because it's going to make you a buck and you don't care to hear anything else.

You sir, make pornographers look bad.

Go ahead, refute my bottom line, tell me I'm wrong.

I respect your opinion. I don't share it or have to agree with it.

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Sorry, but it's not an opinion.

You stated you ARE going to continue to feature Axl, a model now KNOWN to be covered in racist tattoos.

Your members like him and want to see more so the continued presence of a model covered in racist tattoos will make you a buck.

"I respect your opinion BUT..." is the sure sign of someone not wanting to hear anything else.

So the bottom line is FACT, not opinion.

I will, however, grant you that the line about you making pornographers look bad is INDEED my opinion (and I would have been surprised-- to say the least-- if it was an opinion you shared.)

 

[LittleDove]

Re: Active Duty update thread

... it's pretty damned sad and sorry that people ignore this blatantly Neo Nazi and choose to look the other way because they like the look of a model. It may be just porn but, it sends a message loud and clear it is the worst representation of the gay community.

...snipped...

I love knowing who's who and what's what especially when racism is involved.

That's really rather bold and also rather ballsy (and not in the good sense) coming from someone who marks his every post with an image from Tom of Finland, who spent much of his career eroticising Nazi imagery:

...the odds of him not knowing are 1 in a billion.

Care to tell us what the odds are that you didn't know?

 

[ACTIVE DUTY]

Re: Active Duty update thread

That's really rather bold and also rather ballsy (and not in the good sense) coming from someone who marks his every post with an image from Tom of Finland, who spent much of his career eroticising Nazi imagery:

Care to tell us what the odds are that you didn't know?

Let me be the first to say that I give Hellax24 the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know. Something he refused to grant to Axl and something that everyone else on this thread who has joined in the crucifixion of Axl obviously didn't recognize or point out.

Admittedly, I didn't know that about Tom Of Finland myself. Further proof that we are often guilty of making the mistake of calling people out for honest ignorance or simply not being informed.

On this point, I finally rest my case. All I can do from here on, if anything, is laugh not only at my own ignorance but that of the very people who rallied on with just as much blindness in their indignation for Axl and his tattoos as they did for not knowing what symbols they used to express or represent themselves here on the thread.

 

[CowboyBob]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Jesus Christ, enough already!

Let Dink take his pictures and peddle them to whomever he wants.

Thanks go to JUB forums as they won't be promoting this walking billboard for the Aryan Brotherhood in their forums. At least that displays some integrity.

If anyone wants to support this, then by all means do. Gay men will sell out to a cute face and nice butt. To some nothing else matters.

That's really rather bold and also rather ballsy (and not in the good sense) coming from someone who marks his every post with an image from Tom of Finland, who spent much of his career eroticising Nazi imagery.

Good grief, just how far do you want to take this? Volkswagen was started by Hitler as the People's Car. Go and picket your local Volkswagen dealership.

It's been an interesting ride.

 

[TallOneCA]

Re: Active Duty update thread

I would like to thank LoveFindsHardy for his summary of Dink Flamingo's comment at post number 604 above.

Dink may perceive that his comments were "truncated," edited or taken out of context, but that is just not the case. Dink's comments are well written and very clear. Dink may have one view of himself, but that view is in complete contradiction to his actions.

I am person of color, of mixed race. I am fortunate that I have not experienced much racsim or discrimination, but I am very aware of the social ques that make me uncomfortable. I'm also very careful to not prejudge anyone, to be objective and whenever possible, to give people the benefit of the doubt.

As much as I have tried to walk away from this incident with Active Duty, Flamingo's comments have made it necessary, once again, to express my opinion.

I guess it's best to describe my view of Dink Flamingo as out of touch, socially unaware and racially insensitive. For example, Dink describes an expereince of recruiting a black model as this:

I've also tried to recruit a fair number of black performers as well. One such case really turned out badly. The model came in for his solo and by the time it was all said and done he walked out with my camera, his tape, all his paperwork and a nice amount of cash. I was devastated.

Flamingo states that commentors believe that he is "lying" about this incident. Commentors are not saying that he lied about this. Actually, commentors are shocked that Flamingo has taken what appears to be a single incident and applied it, in stereotypical fashion, to an entire race of people! The Miriam Webster dictionary describes racism as, "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race ." Isn't interesting that the producer of Flamingo's other site, Amateur Straight Guys, caught ASG performer "Spence" stealing $7,000.00, yet ASG and Active Duty still hires white guys? I guess it's only bad when black guys steal?

Moreover, what I find really interesting (and offensive) is this statement:

Regardless of the decision of the JUB MODS to ban Axl from the forums, he will remain working for active duty as our MEMBERS really love him. All of the email feedback that I've gotten from our members have been positive. I have yet to receive a single email that addresses the subject of his tats. It's apparent from all the feedback that I've gotten that they really like him.

Of course porn fans and members like him. He's perceived as good looking, a decent performer and now he has that "bad boy" quotient that so many people love. But that guys body is covered in tattoo's that many people find offensive. Regardless of the bad decisions that "Axl" made, his ignorance or his youth, for Active Duty to further promote him is beyond reasonable comprehension.

Dink Flamingo can't possibly be racist. He grew up in a diverse working class neighborhood, his family employed African Americans and he has friends of all strips on Facebook...it's just not possible. While I doubt that many of these diverse people are members of Active Duty, I'm sure they would be very supportive of his right to continue to feature and promote his new and popular performer with the racist tattoos.

I cannot argue that Dink Flamingo knows what's best for Active Duty. Regardless of what those tattoo's represent, you have members who can't wait for his next "scorching" scenes. And, of course that trumps social responsibility (yes, even for porn.) I'm curious, what would Flamingo tell a hot Latino, African American, Asian, Middle Easterner or Native American military man that approached him to perform for Active Duty? Sorry, I don't hire ethnic minorities (but guys with racist tats are cool.)

So, let's say for the sake of further debate that LoveFindsHardy truncated Dink Flamingo's words. The one thing that cannot be denied, is that Flamingo's actions speak louder than than his words.

 

[pilate]

Re: Active Duty update thread

The only great way to solve this problem is easy and should appease (almost) everyone. Have Axl dominated by a non-caucasian model. Let him suck the cock and be fucked by a man of colour. I know, that Dink doesn't hire non-Caucasian models typically but this would (I hope) shut the haters up. Because really, if Axl is a Neo-Nazi why would he do such a thing anyway? If you need a candidate I'd be willing to step up because Axl is hot (ugly tattoos notwithstanding) LOL

 

[StlKj]

Re: Active Duty update thread

This conversation has lasted only four days--to suggest it's run its course in only four days is ludicrous considering it revolves around a topic as sensitive as racism. It is also ludicrous for posters to look for integrity and real sensitivity from pornographers. Sex sells, and controversial sex sells more. Viewers who take real offense to something as hurtful as symbols of racism are treated like whiny irritants who complain of chest hair on a model. Attacking the symbols and the decision to showcase them to make a buck is portrayed as crucifying the model.

How dare any of us be offended by either the symbols or the pornographer's decision to continue to make money off of them. Truly, everyone should just shut up and wank, and be thankful that we're even worthy of whatever scraps pornographers are willing to throw us.

 

[JaredPad]

Re: Active Duty update thread

This conversation has lasted only four days--to suggest it's run its course in only four days is ludicrous considering it revolves around a topic as sensitive as racism. It is also ludicrous for posters to look for integrity and real sensitivity from pornographers. Sex sells, and controversial sex sells more. Viewers who take real offense to something as hurtful as symbols of racism are treated like whiny irritants who complain of chest hair on a model. Attacking the symbols and the decision to showcase them to make a buck is portrayed as crucifying the model.

How dare any of us be offended by either the symbols or the pornographer's decision to continue to make money off of them. Truly, everyone should just shut up and wank, and be thankful that we're even worthy of whatever scraps pornographers are willing to throw us.

I couldn't agree more. Great summary of the issue.

 

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

I rarely comment here, but i have been reading this thread for the last couple of days and I feel compelled to comment.

Disclaimer: I am a non white gay man with a Jewish family, although i am personally non-religious. I do not work for and i am not a customer of Active Duty.

Now with that out of the way, i want to say that this Axl incident is now completely overblown. As part of my professional and academic interest i have studied racist groups, and I didn't even put those tatts together until Cowboy Bob called them out. Truth is, except the 14/88, i have seen all of the other elements on many non racist people. I know people who have these tatts and i haven't been bashed in the head yet.

I, for one, believe Dink's explanation, at least to a degree. For many, tatts are tatts, and we dont really scrutinize them. And now if you consider that almost every single one of AD models are tatted, i am pretty sure Dink did not pull out a magnifying glass and stare at each one, nor is he equipped with a "tattoo dictionary" that would decode each one for him. Not all of us are well-versed in shite power mythology to know what 14/88 means and i am sure Dink is no exception. So i believe that Dink is probably completely unaware when he cast Axl on his web site.

Now as for Axl himself, I do not know what is beliefs are, because i have not met him. If Dink's story is true, then he is just a dumb kid. But even if Axl know what those tatts are when he get them, he might not hold the same beliefs now. For one thing, being homosexual is HIGHLY objectionable in almost every gang, especially if you bottom. Aryan Nations, Bloods, Latin Kings, doesnt matter: all are anti gay to a severe degree. So if Axl belongs to a white power gang, he marked himself for expulsion the minute he took a job as a gay porn model (and there is no peaceful expulsion: almost all gangs of that type mark you for assault or worse if you violate their laws, and I dont think Dink pays enough for Axl to risk injury or death). Second, Dink's models are based on military boys. I dont think Dink has answered this question and he probably cannot because of legal consequences, but if Axl is Active Duty military, that means that Uncle Sam has already looked into his background and determined that he is fit for military service, where gang memberships and racist beliefs would certainly be frowned upon. When you are in the military, you dont get to choose who you serve with, and you would serve with people of all races and religions, which i am pretty sure is not ideal for a white supremacist kid.

Some of the posters also point to the lack of diversity of AD as a sign that AD is "racist", which is just uncalled for. AD provides a product that cater to a set of customers, and that is what these customers want to see: clean cut (straight looking) military boys fooling around. Dink knows what his customers like and stick to that look. Would the commenters of this thread accuse other sites that use almost all white models (CF and SC comes to mind) of racism? If porn consumers want porn that stars ethnic minority models, there are plenty of them to choose from. Off the top of my head, there is machofucker, papithugs, latinboys and latino fan club. Some of those (like papithugs and thugboy) solely cast black, blatino or latin guys as their models. Would you protest those sites for lacking ethnic diversity and demand them to cast white models? If not, then why must Dink hire minority models?

Speaking of sites that feature ethnic minority models, their stars have plenty of tattoos as well, and would the commenter of this thread go and look through those picture and determine who on those sites have objectionable tatts? a gang tat perhaps? If so, would you protest those sites for promoting gang membership or behavior?

Here's the bottom line. Dink casted a model based on his physical attractiveness, and he missed that one of his models have objectionable tattoo. While we might never know the real truth of why Axl got those tats, and i suspect he might never tell Dink the truth, as long as he is in demand, Dink has no obligation to expel Axl's work from his site (after all, Dink already paid the kid, why should he swallow a loss because of an innocent mistake?) If you find Axl's scenes not to your liking, you can ignore it, or not subscribe to AD. But lets not paint Dink with the brush of racism.

 

[StlKj]

Re: Active Duty update thread

^In summary, pornographers make money catering to the majority of their client base, and they are not obligated to give a shit if people are deeply offended/hurt by their product. So, shut up and wank. Or just shut up.

Yeah, that's been covered.

 

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

^In summary, pornographers make money catering to the majority of their client base, and they are not obligated to give a shit if people are deeply offended/hurt by their product. So, shut up and wank. Or just shut up.

Yeah, that's been covered.

That is how commerce works, not just porn. BMW makes no front wheel drive cars because their customers want rear or all wheel drive. If BMW ever makes a FWD car under their own name customers would howl. If you don't like a car with rear wheel drive there are plenty of other options to choose from (Lexus, Honda, etc.) Ferrari makes super cars with big engines that carry only 2 people and burn fuel at 10 miles to the gallon, which is incredibly offensive to anyone who cares about the environment. Must we force Ferrari to make a hybrid that goes 50 miles to the gallon, even if they cannot sell it, just because environmentalists are offended?

Porn is no exception. Porn consumers look for different niches and AD provided just one of them. No one is forcing you to shut up and wank, just walk past the store if you dont want any. There is another store right next to it that would sell something more to your liking.

More to the point, why are you so offended by AD? If you are a subscriber, then complain away at Dink. If not, then you are just seeing whats on display and picket the store because you are offended by something you have no intention to buy?