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Active Duty's Axl tattoo controversy

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Re: Active Duty update thread

That is how commerce works, not just porn. BMW makes no front wheel drive cars because their customers want rear or all wheel drive. If BMW ever makes a FWD car under their own name customers would howl. If you don't like a car with rear wheel drive there are plenty of other options to choose from (Lexus, Honda, etc.) Ferrari makes super cars with big engines that carry only 2 people and burn fuel at 10 miles to the gallon, which is incredibly offensive to anyone who cares about the environment. Must we force Ferrari to make a hybrid that goes 50 miles to the gallon, even if they cannot sell it, just because environmentalists are offended?

Porn is no exception. Porn consumers look for different niches and AD provided just one of them. No one is forcing you to shut up and wank, just walk past the store if you dont want any. There is another store right next to it that would sell something more to your liking.

BUD, you write well and your point i sound, IF your values are money and sex only. If you value human dignity and humane behavior, your argument is totally FUCKED UP.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

BUD, you write well and your point i sound, IF your values are money and sex only. If you value human dignity and humane behavior, your argument is totally FUCKED UP.

Sex is not the point here. Porn is a product, just like a widget. It is just like any product on the shelve. If you find that product objectionable, you move to the next shelve. For example, if you don't like Neiman Marcus for selling Fur, you don't go to that store. If you object to Apple's use of slave labor in China to build the iphone, don't buy an Apple product up to and including using iTunes. I boycotted Target for over a year because of their anti-gay gubernatorial endorsement of Tom Emmers, because i find it objectionable.

If you really want to protest a company, dont buy their product. In this capitalist and consumerist world, you wallet is your best weapon. If you find AD's content objectionable, then dont buy it and spend your money somewhere else. While protesting in front of the store can bring initial awareness (and i am not faulting Cowboy Bob for point out the tatts), I am saying that voting with your wallet is a far better way to register your displeasure. yelling and accusing in this thread would not change things a single bit.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

truncating my response to fit your opinion is using my own words against me while misconstruing their intentions as a whole.

If you are intent on proving your point go back and truncate it in the opposite way and respond to my positive points as well to further make your point. Just saying.](*,)

Just like the U. S. presidential race....... #-o ....... :help:

Carry on.......
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

BUD, you write well and your point i sound, IF your values are money and sex only. If you value human dignity and humane behavior, your argument is totally FUCKED UP.

You can please some of the people some of the time, none of the people all of the time and some people none of the time.

You guys seem to only read and respond to what you want to pick out on this site. If you want to be more proactive respond to every point made rather than picking and choosing.

Keep it up, this is becoming entertaining. I notice NO ONE in the "AD IS RACIST" camp has responded to LittleDove's valid argument above. Why? Too true? Too hard to explain? What are the chances? Come on, ya'll got this. Get to it.

Oh wait, Cowboy Bob did. But it was only to seemingly throw in the white towel. Something he had REFUSED to do previous to LittleDove calling out Hellax. After going on and on and on he finally said something that made sense:

"Good grief, just how far do you want to take this? Volkswagen was started by Hitler as the People's Car. Go and picket your local Volkswagen dealership." He could have very easily made this same argument way earlier in the thread debate but he did not until it was time to defend one of his allies.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

You can please some of the people some of the time, none of the people all of the time and some people none of the time.

You guys seem to only read and respond to what you want to pick out on this site. If you want to be more proactive respond to every point made rather than picking and choosing.

Keep it up, this is becoming entertaining. I notice NO ONE in the "AD IS RACIST" camp has responded to LittleDove's valid argument above. Why? Too true? Too hard to explain? What are the chances? Come on, ya'll got this. Get to it.

Dink, you flat don't get it. Our values are so different as to preclude meaningful discourse.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

You can please some of the people some of the time, none of the people all of the time and some people none of the time.

You guys seem to only read and respond to what you want to pick out on this site. If you want to be more proactive respond to every point made rather than picking and choosing.

Keep it up, this is becoming entertaining. I notice NO ONE in the "AD IS RACIST" camp has responded to LittleDove's valid argument above. Why? Too true? Too hard to explain? What are the chances? Come on, ya'll got this. Get to it.

Dink dear, no need to fret. In a way this is a valid discussion and how people see porn (it is curious that so many take it so personally even if they are not users of this product, but people are this way in both online and offline worlds).

As for Tom of Finland, his imagery of leather and uniform fetishism is well known but i dont think that means Tom of Finland is an endorser of Nazism. In fact i interpret it as a smart subversion of it, a commentary on how despite their anti gay ideology, Nazism can be twisted into homoerotic imagery, which throws acid in the face of Nazism itself.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

Dink, you flat don't get it. Our values are so different as to preclude meaningful discourse.

I think he gets it actually. Actually his very first sentence gets it all. No producer of any product, even if he is absolutely careful about any and all sociological implications, can please everyone at all times.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

That is how commerce works, not just porn. BMW makes no front wheel drive cars because their customers want rear or all wheel drive. If BMW ever makes a FWD car under their own name customers would howl. If you don't like a car with rear wheel drive there are plenty of other options to choose from (Lexus, Honda, etc.) Ferrari makes super cars with big engines that carry only 2 people and burn fuel at 10 miles to the gallon, which is incredibly offensive to anyone who cares about the environment. Must we force Ferrari to make a hybrid that goes 50 miles to the gallon, even if they cannot sell it, just because environmentalists are offended?

Porn is no exception. Porn consumers look for different niches and AD provided just one of them. No one is forcing you to shut up and wank, just walk past the store if you dont want any. There is another store right next to it that would sell something more to your liking.

More to the point, why are you so offended by AD? If you are a subscriber, then complain away at Dink. If not, then you are just seeing whats on display and picket the store because you are offended by something you have no intention to buy?

I became interested in this discussion because I saw a photo layout of an incredibly hot guy during a time when I'm bored by most of what's out there. Hot enough for me to consider spending some money to view his work. Then, I read of the controversy surrounding his ink, which left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't know the kid, so he personally hasn't offended me. What his ink suggests does, as did how people here were treated when they were trying to communicate their distress over such hurtful imagery.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

I became interested in this discussion because I saw a photo layout in an incredibly hot guy during a time when I'm bored by most of what's out there. Hot enough for me to consider spending some money to view his work. Then, I read of the controversy surrounding his ink, which left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't know the kid, so he personally hasn't offended me. What his ink suggests does, as did how people here were treated when they were trying to communicate their distress over such hurtful imagery.

I can understand that, but i think too many people read too much into those pics. Yes, he has those tats, but those tats are not the point of the product. Axl is there to wave his boner at you and look pretty, and Dink didnt put his pictures up to intentionally offend. Furthermore, people are reading that Dink endorses this because he put the kid's pics up, and that is way too many leaps of faith to jump to a conclusion.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

Sex is not the point here. Porn is a product, just like a widget. It is just like any product on the shelve. If you find that product objectionable, you move to the next shelve. For example, if you don't like Neiman Marcus for selling Fur, you don't go to that store. If you object to Apple's use of slave labor in China to build the iphone, don't buy an Apple product up to and including using iTunes. I boycotted Target for over a year because of their anti-gay gubernatorial endorsement of Tom Emmers, because i find it objectionable.

If you really want to protest a company, dont buy their product. In this capitalist and consumerist world, you wallet is your best weapon. If you find AD's content objectionable, then dont buy it and spend your money somewhere else. While protesting in front of the store can bring initial awareness (and i am not faulting Cowboy Bob for point out the tatts), I am saying that voting with your wallet is a far better way to register your displeasure. yelling and accusing in this thread would not change things a single bit.

Yes, porn is a market, just like other markets, but the fundamental difference is that it markets people, not inanimate objects. And people come with a lot of baggage, race being a major feature (at least in America). Automobile markets have special issues that must be addressed and so does the porn market.

I agree that voting with your wallet is a great way to voice your displeasure, but you underestimate the significance protesting and airing out your grievances in a public fourm can have. I am not an AD member, but when I see something that I deem to be racist, I'm going to point it out.

I might not be costing AD dollars directly, but in public protest (or yelling and accusing, as you've labeled it) AD members who weren't previously aware of Axl's tats might be clued in. Protest can pressure the producer of the content to rectify the problem through public pressure, or even be made aware of it if they previously weren't.

And if the response from those that are being protested is not sufficient or thought to be half-assed, protestors will continue to complain, in the hopes that those who haven't heard about this issue with Axl, or issues in general, might be reached.

How would you have been made aware of the Target protest if the issue of Target's anti-gay donations and refusal to *really* back down (sounds familiar) hadn't been plastered all over the gay blogosphere?

Yes, refusing to shop there was a substantial move, but it wouldn't have happened if people hadn't put the issue out there first, and then continue to reach more people and tell them to boycott a company that was at least tolerant of bigotry.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

Yes, porn is a market, just like other markets, but the fundamental difference is that it markets people, not inanimate objects. And people come with a lot of baggage, race being a major feature (at least in America). Automobile markets have special issues that must be addressed and so does the porn market.

I agree that voting with your wallet is a great way to voice your displeasure, but you underestimate the significance protesting and airing out your grievances in a public fourm can have. I am not an AD member, but when I see something that I deem to be racist, I'm going to point it out.

I might not be costing AD dollars directly, but in public protest (or yelling and accusing, as you've labeled it) AD members who weren't previously aware of Axl's tats might be clued in. Protest can pressure the producer of the content to rectify the problem through public pressure, or even be made aware of it if they previously weren't.

And if the response from those that are being protested is not sufficient or thought to be half-assed, protestors will continue to complain, in the hopes that those who haven't heard about this issue with Axl, or issues in general, might be reached.

How would you have been made aware of the Target protest if the issue of Target's anti-gay donations and refusal to *really* back down (sounds familiar) hadn't been plastered all over the gay blogosphere?

Yes, refusing to shop there was a substantial move, but it wouldn't have happened if people hadn't put the issue out there first, and then continue to reach more people and tell them to boycott a company that was at least tolerant of bigotry.

Note that i have stated that i have no objection of people calling Axl's tats out for clarification. And i agree porn is a "people" business, and racism is an issue in America.

I just think that further down the thread people got out of control when they start painting the entire site of AD (including Dink as a person) as racist.

AD is different from Target for a reason. Target as a corporation donated to the anti gay candidate. They should have the resources to look up and understand his views before throwing 150K at him. Dink i doubt has a vetting team that scrutinize tats before casting his models, and i certainly don't think all porn sites should check the applicants' politics before casting them. Is it an oversight? yes. Did Dink offer a reason? yes. Whether that reason is good enough for you is your opinion.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

I can understand that, but i think too many people read too much into those pics. Yes, he has those tats, but those tats are not the point of the product. Axl is there to wave his boner at you and look pretty, and Dink didnt put his pictures up to intentionally offend. Furthermore, people are reading that Dink endorses this because he put the kid's pics up, and that is way too many leaps of faith to jump to a conclusion.

Again, no one believes the pictures were put up to offend. People are NOT reading the original pictures as an endorsement of this kid OR racism (Dink didn't know and I have no reason to disbelieve that.) However, now that the ideology behind the tattoos (intentional on the model's behalf or NOT) is known, it BECOMES an endorsement of both to CONTINUE to feature the model in upcoming shoots.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

I think he gets it actually. Actually his very first sentence gets it all. No producer of any product, even if he is absolutely careful about any and all sociological implications, can please everyone at all times.

No. Both you and Dink seem to see this as though the issue was too many blondes, not enough redheads, too many gay4pay models, too much barebacking, not enough cumshots, etc etc etc. This is NOT an issue of AD and its niche market. This is an issue of someone who has adorned his body in tattoos that represent violence toward gays, ethnic minorities and religious minorities. This is about (from this day forward) KNOWINGLY featuring and (gleefully) promoting that model and those tattoos.

This is WHITE SUPREMACY, it's not "too many twinks."

I can't tell you (a person who falls into ALL THREE categories on the Aryan Brotherhood's hit list) when or when not to be offended but I honestly don't get it. I'm a blue eyed WASP with a German last name and it offends me!
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

Again, no one believes the pictures were put up to offend. People are NOT reading the original pictures as an endorsement of this kid OR racism (Dink didn't know and I have no reason to disbelieve that.) However, now that the ideology behind the tattoos (intentional on the model's behalf or NOT) is known, it BECOMES an endorsement of both to CONTINUE to feature the model in upcoming shoots.

I dont think it is endorsing his ideology -- because we dont know what his ideology is. Tats cannot be removed quickly or easily. If Axl has since renounced his ideology, we have no way of knowing that. That said, if he still holds WP ideology, then he wouldnt be taking it up the ass performing for a bunch of gay customers in the first place. The fact that he continues to be willing to work for AD (no one is forcing him to be a cocksucker on camera) can also mean he is denouncing that view or never hold it in the first place.

And if you find WP ideology so distasteful, then wouldnt it to be gratifying to see someone who espouse that idea breaking their own rules? I take an admittedly weirdly perverse view that if he is really a white supremacist, taking it up the ass is the ultimate humiliation, no?

I can't tell you (a person who falls into ALL THREE categories on the Aryan Brotherhood's hit list) when or when not to be offended but I honestly don't get it. I'm a WASP of German heritage and it offends me!

Maybe its because i am somewhat innoculated by my study of these groups, but i know of cases people who grew up in an environment where that ideology is almost mandatory. They get the tatts, they grow up, they found out that they are wrong and regret it and eventually remove the tats. Unless Axl actually says racist things on camera and scream Heil Hitler when he is cumming, we should not assume that he continues to harbor those sentiments.

And to add: I have to say those tats are foolish, especially the 14/88. If i were a white supremacist, i would never get a tat like that in the first place because i know it would be social napalm. Trust me, the most racist of people and the most homophobic dont always tattoo their slogans on their chest.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

Re Tom of Finland,

From Wikipedia:

"A controversial theme in his drawings was the erotic treatment of men in Nazi uniforms. They form a small part of his overall work, but the typically flattering visual treatment of these characters has led some viewers to infer sympathy or affinity for Nazism, and they have been omitted from most recent anthologies of his work. Later in his career Laaksonen disavowed this work and was at pains to dissociate himself and his work from fascist or racist ideologies. He also depicted a significant number of black men in his drawings, with no overt racial or political message in the context in which they appear; although they bear some commonality with racist caricatures of the "hypersexual" black male, these traits are shared by Laaksonen's white characters as well."

So, the difference is, Tom of Finland, unlike this Dink guy, did the right thing, disavowed his Nazi drawings, and took great pains to disassociate himself from them and what they represented.

He also, unlike Dink, actually featured black men in his work.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

^ Thank-You ezwriter sometimes you have to break it down for those who are oh so simple-minded
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

What Dink and Bud don't get is that they ought to be concerned about the people that the AB tats have offended and insulted. Almost no sign of that from them. They're just defending themselves, their arguments and, in Dink' case, his source of money and his model. Nobody has expressed empathy for the minorities affected. Nobody said a meaningful "I'm sorry". I'm fine with him using this model as long ass the tats are covered by makeup enough to hide their identity.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

What Dink and Bud don't get is that they ought to be concerned about the people that the AB tats have offended and insulted. Almost no sign of that from them. They're just defending themselves, their arguments and, in Dink' case, his source of money and his model. Nobody has expressed empathy for the minorities affected. Nobody said a meaningful "I'm sorry". I'm fine with him using this model as long ass the tats are covered by makeup enough to hide their identity.

It is not my apology to give. I have no stake in this except to shine the light on a counter argument. As for as the model goes, now that you know he has the tats, you are ok with him modeling just as long as the tat is covered up? Why? You already know its there.

And i believe Dink has issued an apology on the longer post above to those offended in this quote:

I am very sorry that this whole subject has conjured up so much animosity and vile flame throwing back and forth. I did not share Axl on active duty to offend anyone. I shared what I thought (and still do) was a really hot young man with a very sweet and caring spirit who seemed genuinely excited to be doing what he was doing. I apologize that some of you became offended or felt like you were being slapped in the face with mean-spirited intentions . That simply wasn't the case.

I have given all my arguments on this issue. Tom of Finland disavowed his pictures and thats nice, although I always thought he was making fun of Nazis instead of glorifying them.

And if we are in the business of seeking apologies from porn producers for their model's beliefs, there are plenty more people who would need to apologize.
 
Re: Active Duty update thread

Personally, I can't wait for his next scenes, as I've said to you privately and elsewhere here, regardless of the tats, he's one of the hottest guys that activeduty has had - second only to the adorable 'Cash'!!! :)

This is sad. I always thought you had a better head on your shoulders. I am kind of disappointed with how you are willing to overlook this guys tatts for a wank.

That's really rather bold and also rather ballsy (and not in the good sense) coming from someone who marks his every post with an image from Tom of Finland, who spent much of his career eroticising Nazi imagery:

379774.jpg





Care to tell us what the odds are that you didn't know?

Care to tell Us....."" Really?? Dude, Who are you??

See my response and Dudoo1's post's.

Let me be the first to say that I give Hellax24 the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know. Something he refused to grant to Axl and something that everyone else on this thread who has joined in the crucifixion of Axl obviously didn't recognize or point out.

Admittedly, I didn't know that about Tom Of Finland myself. Further proof that we are often guilty of making the mistake of calling people out for honest ignorance or simply not being informed.

On this point, I finally rest my case. All I can do from here on, if anything, is laugh not only at my own ignorance but that of the very people who rallied on with just as much blindness in their indignation for Axl and his tattoos as they did for not knowing what symbols they used to express or represent themselves here on the thread.

Thanx for Giving me the "Benefit of the Doubt" However, maybe you should have researched it a bit more before posting and you would have seen that with all art there are positive and negative views on any given piece. Art invokes many emotions good and bad and not everyone will agree with what the other feels or thinks about it.

As for the Axl, it was your excuses and and condescending tones that really heated up this discussion. It was also how yourself and Jasun decided to play "We make porn and you don't so you have no valid or intelligent thoughts about this hot mess of a kid"

As for Tom of Finland, his imagery of leather and uniform fetishism is well known but i dont think that means Tom of Finland is an endorser of Nazism. In fact i interpret it as a smart subversion of it, a commentary on how despite their anti gay ideology, Nazism can be twisted into homoerotic imagery, which throws acid in the face of Nazism itself.

Thank You for answering this because apparently someones Google isn't working. To compare Dink's product with Tom of Finland is Ballsy, and not in a good way" Tom of Finland created ART, Dink makes porn of str8 military men(Supposedly) that at times has the top pulling out with fecal matter on their dick and out of the bottoms ass.
I'm really amazed that this is still going on.

Ok first, let me address the novel Dink has written.

I have spoken to 2 other people in porn 1. a staff member of a porn company and 2 a director.

The Staff member of the porn company rarely posts here yet keeps tabs on the discussion about models, scenes and such regarding his company. He was nice enough to engage in a dialogue with fans of his site. I asked why there were not more AF-AM on the site and he told me that they had started with young collegians sort of an Ambercrombie & Fitch set up and once they became popular they kind of pigeon holed themselves wit that type of branding. Though they did feature Men Of Color, but not in a large number. However, they did continue to add more AF-AM and most of their members welcomed the more diverse line up of models and when an AF-AM model wasn't seen for awhile they were definitely missed. I have also seen or heard of members that did not like the AF-AM models on the site. That did not to this day stopped featuring AF-AM models and responded to the racist members accordingly by calling them out. That company has my respect to not bowing down to close minded, racist consumers.

This company has 2 distinct sites. 1. Gay and another for their bi/str8 scenes. When questioned about their success with both sites especially the str8/bi site considering that there are some in out community that do not care for Gay 4 Pay or seeing their favorite models with women. He told me that the str8/bi site wasn't a huge success, but they never intended it to be. I asked him that question because when speaking to the Director for the second site told me that Bi movies for the company he worked for would never happen because their core audience wouldn't go for it and they would lose customers. That sounded odd to me since the company he worked for had 3 sites. 1) for cross generational audience which the owner starred in, 2) for men who didn't want to see the owner in the movies and 3) for str8 scenes. Well, i challenged that and even contaced the owner directly and we had exchanges back and forth. Well, they did do a Bi scene and it was a huge success.

So when you say that your members wouldn't like to see a more diverse line up of models i need to call Bullshit. If you have never done it you don't know if it is recieved well or not. Now, if it is your personal attitude about not hiring more Men of Color then say so and not use flimsy excuses that really insults people's intelligence. You your self have posted your one and only attempt at hiring and AF-AM model and have painted all AF-AM models with the same brush. Hey, Arpad Miklos is not attracted to AF-AM men yet, he shot a hot threesome for Dirk Yates, whom i have mentioned has no problem finding hot AF-AM models for his movies. I am also glad to see that he is still putting out movies.

CXXX..|
 
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