Affordable Care Act/Obama-care Supreme Court ruling...

[frankfrank]

You do realize that the $9000 dollars you pay in extra health care insurance costs doesn't compare too favourably with the additional income tax I pay to cover universal health care? And my "co-pay" is zero.

OH MY GOD...I've been saying this for 10 or 15 years. Yet you are the VERY FIRST person I remember seeing or hearing about, anywhere, who has ever made the same argument. Often using Germany as an example as well as Canada, I've often said that "If I paid the same tax rate as Germany, I'd be way ahead, because I'm paying SO much health insurance premium!" You're right, entirely - systemic differences (such as Americans having to pay incredible and massive premiums for health insurance, versus no insurance explicitly for health there) *MUST* be figured into the equation.

I believe the requirement for hospitals to provide emergency care still exists, one goal of the law was just to reduce the amount of uninsured who seek care there.

Just watch my prediction, and I hope to hell I'm wrong, but I'm expecting that, even before the "holiday" (04 July), REPUBLICANS will talk about repealing this very federal law you quote. that will be a death sentence for a lot of people (as the Healthcare Act doesn't really do anything to REDUCE premiums, which can approach the take-home wage for a full time minimum wage job). I've been predicting this for a while, but now the 'Pugs will have revenge in mind.

Revengeusually means that they come at the 99% as jackbooted thugs, repeatedly kicking the holy hell out of them when they're already down.

The SCOTUS did say, today, that states are not mandated to participate in the MEDICAID coverage increases. Does this also mean that the states are now exempt from any requirement at all to have a Medicaid program? If that's the case, I have some friends who have most certainly lost at least 10-15 years off their life expectancy.

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

Why can't you quit the privacy policy?

My insurance is about $80 a month. Co-workers that smoke have this fee too which is confusing since it's an incentives-/healthy-living based plan.

Because I am a contractor with my employer who switched my job from employee to contractor in 2002. I work in Tampa one of 4 left for a very profitable Citgo Petroleum in logistics & distribution west coast of Florida Naples to Gainsville. They ditched the company jobs. I was able to get COBRA and luckily Citgo kept in place private conversion for employees to contractor thus allowing my COBRA coverage to convert to private otherwise I would have nothing. I have a decent policy once the deductible is met but for a healthy 30's & 40;s its pretty catastrophic plan. Its a old timey comprehensive policy meaning all is covered the same. Doctor visits, drugs (any FDA approved drug), medical equip, lab work all goes to deductible. Try getting a drug that cost 250 a month at wal-greens or CVS and they won't file there is no formulary. You pay total up front then file a claim. You can't access United Healthcares drug plans and its made that way.
drugs are the most expensive. I went in to Wal-mart to pick up 1 drug though I leave 3. I tell them only to fill 1 I know they will fill all 3. The older clerk lady looks at me and says "Do you know how much this will cost" I say yeah about &87 and she says ah bless your heart sweet honey this is $654.00. Pffffffffftt, thats the charge for 2 monthly cholesterol drugs tricor and crestor.
Then I submit and insurance returns "national average" check which is much less then what I am charged retail. Its all scam.

Make no mistake my company makes big profits and does nothing different then any petro chemical has or is doing. I know these guys in other firms. They will ditch all company jobs to self employed contractor and take the government entitlements and break record profits. This is a example of how they do that.
Employee job = contractor no benes or limited and you are on your own.

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

you guys really haven't a clue as to how much a private policy cost. Its alarming. There is no group rate, there is only the average anyone in your group pays not based on conditions such as smoking or being fat. The employer part is a group policy the word is far different and not a entry level way as the Republicans suggest "people should get there own policy". By the time you are in your late 30's forget it man..............

 

[SuperNatural]

I know I'm gonna come off as less intelligent but could someone tell what's going in smaller words and what is this ObamaCare?

 

[JB3]

I keep seeing articles that say SCOTUS "upheld most of" the law. What exactly did they kill?

That medicaid thing. The ruling also put Congress and the Executive on notice about using the commerce clause in an expansive way. (the opinion specifically said a mandate under the commerce clause would be unconstitutional)

It's a pretty interesting ruling in a few different ways. One thing that stuck out to me is that it seems as though the court did check the power of congress and the president with their comments on the commerce clause and medicaid, while still saying that government has the right to be in healthcare. I don't believe the challenges to the law will end however, especially as more of the provisions come into play.

One of my college roommates that was pretty conservative posted this opinion piece on Facebook, in response to all of the crazies saying Roberts was a traitor and so on.

Why Roberts Did It - Charles Krauthammer - National Review Online

While Krauthammer includes his usual jabs and right-winger talking head shtick, I think he makes some very valid points about why Roberts voted the way he did. Some choice quotes:

Obamacare is now essentially upheld. There’s only one way it can be overturned. The same way it was passed — elect a new president and a new Congress. That’s undoubtedly what Roberts is saying: Your job, not mine. I won’t make it easy for you.

Result? The law stands, thus obviating any charge that a partisan Court overturned duly passed legislation. And yet at the same time the Commerce Clause is reined in. By denying that it could justify the imposition of an individual mandate, Roberts draws the line against the inexorable decades-old expansion of congressional power under the Commerce Clause fig leaf.

Whatever one thinks of the substance of Bush v. Gore, it did affect the reputation of the Court. Roberts seems determined that there be no recurrence with Obamacare. Hence his straining in his Obamacare ruling to avoid a similar result — a 5–4 decision split along ideological lines that might be perceived as partisan and political.

Also, there were hints of this type of ruling ALL OVER the questions the justices in the majority asked. Most were along the lines of 'if we are to separate the requirement to buy insurance from the rest of the law, how will we unwind it? That is a job for the legislature, not the courts'.

 

[JB3]

Oh, and here's a quote from the opinion itself that pretty much sums up why the court didn't strike down the mandate:

“Members of this Court are vested with the authority to interpret the law; we possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisions are entrusted to our nation´s elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.”

 

[rareboy]

You do realize that the $9000 dollars you pay in extra health care insurance costs doesn't compare too favourably with the additional income tax I pay to cover universal health care? And my "co-pay" is zero.

Just for the record.

And, before anyone asks, I get to pick my own doctor. A government committee does not oversee when I'm "allowed" to make an appointment. Things aren't perfect here. He's busy, so sometimes if I want same-day or next-day appointments they have to put me on standby or see an associate or something. But I went in one day with some shortness of breath and he wouldn't let me leave the building without xrays and a full cardio work-up. So referrals and testing is prompt.

This is the road to sanity on which President Obama has set your country. Take it as far as possible.

I would, of course, re-iterate this.

Americans seem to have no really clear idea of what they actually pay for health care and why their costs are so high, yet outcomes so far below other countries with universal care.

Our system increasingly is working on a pro-active primary care philosophy in order to reduce the need for costly, episodic intervention for catastrophic illness. Our greatest disadvantage, of course, is a small population spread over a huge geographic area, which limits the possibility and practicality of access to tertiary and quaternary specialties in some rural and northern communities. But that same situation also exists in parts of the US as well.

I know this must be an incredibly bitter pill to swallow for all the Obama haters out there today. But the US has just had a wake-up call that to be more broadly productive, competitive and socially responsible, that a more universal, collective approach is necessary when it comes to health care, instead of the 'I got mine Jack', approach that is adding a staggering burden and cost to the manufacturing and service industry and municipal and state taxes in order to provide only selective groups with gold plated health coverage while the rest of the citizens get squat.

 

[Jack Springer]

The trouble with ObamaCareTax -- we still don't know what's in it.

What other surprises are there?

I look forward to the day when a Congress and President decide to force US Citizens buy something else they don't want -- maybe a gun, solar-powered car, broccoli, etc.

Also, how long do you think it will be before Congress increasing the penalty tax for ObamaCareTax? very soon

 

[Jack Springer]

I know I'm gonna come off as less intelligent but could someone tell what's going in smaller words and what is this ObamaCare?

It's the new program that the Obama Administration and Congress spent the first 18 months passing. The bill was so huge -- no one was able to read it before it was brought up for a vote.

What we know now is that the legislation gave a government group the responsibility/right to develop the rules and laws for US healthcare.

You are now required by the government to have health insurance -- even if you can't afford it. If you do not buy insurance you will be taxed by the IRS.

The proponents of this law sold it has a right -- the Supreme Court ruled it as a tax. Obama is now going to tax anyone that doesn't buy health insurance -- even those that make under $250,000 -- a HUGE broken promise he made US Citizens.

Almost all of the provisions of the bill do not come into play until 2014.

If you have preexisting conditions you cannot buy insurance today -- supposedly that will change in 2014.

If you have children you can included them in your health insurance until they are 26.

There is nothing in the bill that will lower your healthcare premiums.

Physicians are confused about what their income will be because they will be forced to take more Medicaid patients.

The bill was over 1 foot thick in 8.5 x 11 paper stock.

If you feel confused -- don't feel bad -- no one knows what's in the bill yet. That statement should make you feel a little uneasy.

 

[evanrick]

If you feel confused -- don't feel bad -- no one knows what's in the bill yet. That statement should make you feel a little uneasy.

you know what makes me feel uneasy? a world where george bush was president and waged a pointless war in iraq, got over 4,000 troops killed and let Osama get away.

- - - Updated - - -

The trouble with ObamaCareTax -- we still don't know what's in it.

What other surprises are there?

I look forward to the day when a Congress and President decide to force US Citizens buy something else they don't want -- maybe a gun, solar-powered car, broccoli, etc.

Also, how long do you think it will be before Congress increasing the penalty tax for ObamaCareTax? very soon

well if you can afford your own health insurance you better buy it soon, because everyone else is done paying for it.

 

[Kabluey]

Does seem bizarre from an outside perspective that the idea of universal healthcare could ever become domestically unpopular in the U.S. Amazingly effective media campaigning on the part of the healthcare industry.
It's almost as though US citizens are unaware how good and how much cheaper healthcare actually is in other first world countries.

 

[chuck10x]

I believe the requirement for hospitals to provide emergency care still exists, one goal of the law was just to reduce the amount of uninsured who seek care there.

A little tired last night and didn't frame the question right.
What I meant was that if you refuse to buy insurance and pay the penalty, Are you automatically enrolled in an insurance program?
The law says you must buy it, You may get away with it the first year, But with the IRS involved I doubt you can get away with it in subsequent years.
What about Employers that drop insurance coverage because the penalty is cheaper than insuring you?

 

[justdra]

From what I've heard from hear and there, if you can't afford to buy heath insurance, you will be help by the gov, again I think the problem is with deciding who is eligible for assistance. People will find a way to dodge the system like they always do, even when they are able to pay. I work for a large corporation and I have co-workers who file ??indigent?? care so they don't have to pay their hospital bill (yes he has insurance thru the job) and I want to know how they can get away with it just because his wife doesn't work and he has 2 kids, yet owns a home, land, 2 paid for vehicles, recreation vehicles (4 wheelers, motorcycle) but yet can walk out on a hospital bill. Just like he gets over not paying hospital bills, the same type of people will claim they can't afford to pay premiums.

 

[chance1]

just returned from a trip to montreal (ironic eh?) - btw it is a fabulous city or at least the part i was in

and heard about this yesterday - canadiens were like "it's about time"

hard to argue if Roberts was the guy - funny how everyone assumed he would overturn and it was on Kennedy

all indicators to me from people that I know with small businesses is that the run-up to this is a cost increase for businesses insuring their employees and thus more to pay for the employees and less profit (if any) for the businesses - thus bad

but ........

it has been done

time to move on

funny i hadn't seen michelle bachman's mug in quite a while - and there she was - she's a little scary but her accent makes me laugh

wonder how many JUBBERs have that accent

btw - canadiens told me that americans from western NY come to canada for HC - that HC "cards" are copied - that sometimes getting an appt. is difficult - etc.

but NONE said it was anything but a great system - or at least just

and many of those talked to were in good financial stead thus those who are paying for this for others

so .........

count me as someone who is "on board"

back to the election

 

[Kulindahr]

I am talking about the Supreme Court's ruling that Corporations are People, and somewhere along the line someone said that Money is free speech.

Those two assertions have nothing to do with the Citizens United case -- they were well-established law long before that. And as a matter of fact the CU ruling didn't rely at all on corporations being people.

 

[Kulindahr]

The SCOTUS did say, today, that states are not mandated to participate in the MEDICAID coverage increases. Does this also mean that the states are now exempt from any requirement at all to have a Medicaid program? If that's the case, I have some friends who have most certainly lost at least 10-15 years off their life expectancy.

No -- that refers only to the expansion; regular Medicaid goes on.

 

[Kulindahr]

It's the new program that the Obama Administration and Congress spent the first 18 months passing. The bill was so huge -- no one was able to read it before it was brought up for a vote.

Not true -- just no one in Congress tried. There were some outside of Congress who did -- not that it was easy, since Congress kept wrestling over the heap, rearranging and changing it.

 

[Kulindahr]

From what I've heard from hear and there, if you can't afford to buy heath insurance, you will be help by the gov, again I think the problem is with deciding who is eligible for assistance. People will find a way to dodge the system like they always do, even when they are able to pay. I work for a large corporation and I have co-workers who file ??indigent?? care so they don't have to pay their hospital bill (yes he has insurance thru the job) and I want to know how they can get away with it just because his wife doesn't work and he has 2 kids, yet owns a home, land, 2 paid for vehicles, recreation vehicles (4 wheelers, motorcycle) but yet can walk out on a hospital bill. Just like he gets over not paying hospital bills, the same type of people will claim they can't afford to pay premiums.

"Indigent" is defined by the hospitals. For the closest hospital here, I qualify as indigent, and only have to pay 5% or less. For the next closest, I don't qualify; for the one I had to go to two years ago for a head injury, I was partly qualified, except that because I lived outside their "service area", I had to pay everything anyway.

 

[Kulindahr]

but NONE said it was anything but a great system - or at least just

and many of those talked to were in good financial stead thus those who are paying for this for others

so .........

count me as someone who is "on board"

back to the election

I've got Canadian friends who have some very nasty comments about the system. But when asked if they'd rather have what the U.S. does, they get a look of horror. One said something like, Just because we don't like the way the lorry is creaking and swaying doesn't mean we're apt to jump off into the pack of hyenas!

Did that pack just get smaller? Time will tell. But I still think Weiner's advice to Obama was on target: he should have gone for expanding Medicare.

 

[opinterph]

There is nothing in the bill that will lower your healthcare premiums.

That will come about as a result of competition in our system of free market capitalism.