American Idol 11

[MattClaimer]

very disappointed with the safe, obvious, middle America vote.
shouldnt it be renamed to white guy with guitar 2013 next year?

Maybe America's tired of the boring, yodeling, can't find the note screeching pop-sound that has permeated music for the past 10 years. I know I am. Looks like true talent and originality wins again. If it's a white guy with a guitar, so be it. The Sanchez girl can sing, but she sounds like every other wannabe pop icon out there. If she'd tried less to be like all the rest, she might have won.

 

[FuryOfFirestorm]

Right said! Lot of haters hatin. Phillips has true talent and an original sound. He won because he's the BETTER talent for sure. That's what the contest is all about.

LOL. The show is all about shilling Coca-Cola, Ford cars, and whatever overpriced crap Jimmy Iovine is whoring out to the sheep. The winner isn't chosen solely on talent, but rather whoever can pander best to stupid teenage girls and bored, horny housewives. The recent string of mid-talented pretty white boy flash-in-the-pans is proof of that.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

LOL. The show is all about shilling Coca-Cola, Ford cars, and whatever overpriced crap Jimmy Iovine is whoring out to the sheep. The winner isn't chosen solely on talent, but rather whoever can pander best to stupid teenage girls and bored, horny housewives. The recent string of mid-talented pretty white boy flash-in-the-pans is proof of that.

Don't forget, they're also shilling J-Lo's latest "song."

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Maybe America's tired of the boring, yodeling, can't find the note screeching pop-sound that has permeated music for the past 10 years.

If it's a white guy with a guitar, so be it.

Adam Lambert's album hitting #1 on the Billboard charts while Kris Allen remains unknown to most people refutes both of those assumptions.

Remember, ever since power texting became a thing, this show hasn't been about what "America" wants, but about who can vote the most times. 120 million votes does not mean 120 million people. If the show limited one vote per phone, we could then see who actually had the majority of fans.

For example, if Person A has 1 million fans and Person B has 100,000 fans, but Person A's fans vote 1 time each while Person B's fans vote 100 times each, Person B will end up with "the most votes" even though more people actually voted for Person A. I'm not saying this is what happened with Philip and Jessica. I'm just saying we'll never know until they make it one vote per phone. And until then, we can't make the results a referendum on what America wants, when album sales (a more accurate indicator of one vote per person) often refute that strongly.

And if they refuse to limit it to one vote per phone, then American Idol may as well just change is name to Cougar Bait, only cast cute boys each season, and let them come out onstage each week wearing nothing but a guitar.

 

[joesman]

Good lord, the harping goes on and on. In case you haven't checked most of the winners on Idol have been from the South. North Carolina, Georgia, Alabama etc.

Those who shut the volume down (you know who you are) did not hear them announce on both shows last week that the show would be on Tuesday and Wednesday this week. Now if you tune in to the show just to be a downer with no sound, you got what is rightfully yours.

Cheer up. Life is short. Have a popsickle.

I am so glad Phillip won. I have bought just about every song he did on the show and his Volcano, The Letter, The Stone, Home, Moving Out and others are great.

 

[slipintothefog]

Adam Lambert's album hitting #1 on the Billboard charts while Kris Allen remains unknown to most people refutes both of those assumptions

I don't really think Adam vs. Kris is a good example because Adam had just as many, if not more, crazy tween and housewife fans than Kris did. Now you could argue that there was backlash among those groups for Adam being gay, but he wasn't officially out yet and kept dangling the carrot in front of the faces of the horny women... kind of like Clay did for years, actually.

I am positive that the main reason Kris won is because of the underdog effect that came into play as the show was going out of its way to declare Adam the winner weeks in advance. And really, Idol and the record companies seemed a lot more supportive of Adam than Kris even after Kris had won - kind of like Chris vs. Taylor, or Clay vs. Ruben, where they already had in mind which star they wanted to cultivate and went with those guys despite other people actually winning their seasons.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

I don't really think Adam vs. Kris is a good example because Adam had just as many, if not more, crazy tween and housewife fans than Kris did.

Yes but...Kris still won! Clearly his power-texters crushed Adam's power-texters (and if I remember correctly, we learned afterward that the vote wasn't even close). Adam definitely had his female fanbase who didn't care that he was gay -- and who thankfully pushed him into the finals over the unmitigated awfulness of Danny Gokey -- but I think Kris was clearly the heartthrob of the season. At one point on Results Night a girl shouted out, "Kris you're hot!" That's very different from Lambert's appeal.

But none of this is relevant because my Adam/Kris reference was a response to:

Maybe America's tired of the boring, yodeling, can't find the note screeching pop-sound that has permeated music for the past 10 years.

Because as much as I like Adam, he is clearly that kind of over-the-top screech/singer and my point is that "America" consistently chooses him over Kris when it comes to singles and album sales in the real world, so it's probably not accurate to use Idol Results as any kind of referendum on America's tastes. Especially since 1) Idol's audience isn't a representative cross-section of America and 2) It's even more skewed when power-texting is taken into account.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

As another poster kindly reminded me, I correctly predicted the Philip/Jessica F2 (and Phil's victory) at the beginning of this thread. I'll make one more prediction: either Philip and Jessica will both fail to make a big splash in terms of popular music OR Jessica alone will make a splash. Either way, Philip will go the way of Taylor Hicks and Lee Dewyze. I'm not even predicting under the radar David Cook/Kris Allen success for him. I'm predicting straight up obscurity. After a year or two hopefully I'll be able to find this post in this thread to refer to and see if my prediction was again correct.

 

[FuryOfFirestorm]

I don't really think Adam vs. Kris is a good example because Adam had just as many, if not more, crazy tween and housewife fans than Kris did. Now you could argue that there was backlash among those groups for Adam being gay, but he wasn't officially out yet and kept dangling the carrot in front of the faces of the horny women... kind of like Clay did for years, actually.

I am positive that the main reason Kris won is because of the underdog effect that came into play as the show was going out of its way to declare Adam the winner weeks in advance. And really, Idol and the record companies seemed a lot more supportive of Adam than Kris even after Kris had won - kind of like Chris vs. Taylor, or Clay vs. Ruben, where they already had in mind which star they wanted to cultivate and went with those guys despite other people actually winning their seasons.

The reason Adam is still selling records is that is had appeal outside the tween girl fanbase. He was liked by by pop fans, rock fans, straight people (most of them, anyway), gay people....pretty much everybody. When Queen wants you to tour with them as their lead singer, you know you're a fucking awesome singer.

 

[Native Son]

The Worsters strike again.

 

[MisterMajestic]

I stopped watching AI after the battle went down between Ruben & Clay....Year after year I'd watch the last hour of the Season finale but I stopped tuning in for that as well...The show just didnt do anything for me anymore...

Today I did see clips of the Beautiful young Philippine finalist Jessica Sanchez holding her own with Musics Mega-Powerhouse-Tony/Grammy award winning Diva Ms. Jennifer Holliday...I only saw about a 15-second clip and for a minute there I thought Jennifer was gonna snatch off her Wig....LOL....Jessica is young but she's destined to follow in the foot-steps of the Power Divas...

I saw a clip of the winner, that Phillip-Phillips guy....Talk about Major-Cutey...He's not Bubble-Gum cute like Justin Bieber...Phillip is Classy-Cute and the Chicks will FLOCK to his concerts...

I only saw seconds of each finalist..Did Phillip's choice of songs and his over-all-performance on AI garner him the Crown or did Jessica simply lose to Phillip's Mega-Fan-base?

I may not watch AI anymore but I know enough about the show to understand that the Winner might not be the Best over-all-performer/singer but clearly a TV viewer favorite....A local radio station said today that Millions of teen-girls had to flood those lines for Phillip...

 

[slipintothefog]

Yes but...Kris still won!

Well, if you want to be technical, dear.

I was just saying though... Kris/Adam was kind of different beast than the rest of the finales because they were both white rock guys with big female fanbases who thought they were cute and I'd even say they both had talent even though I don't like either one much. It certainly wasn't a Scotty/Lauren scenario where both sucked so the guy won by default, a Lee/Crystal scenario where the girl was SO much obviously better than the guy at everything and still lost, or even a Phil/Jessica one where both had fairly noticeable flaws and strengths (IMO) but the guy still won anyway for being cute.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

I was just saying though... Kris/Adam was kind of different beast than the rest of the finales because they were both white rock guys with big female fanbases who thought they were cute and I'd even say they both had talent even though I don't like either one much. It certainly wasn't a Scotty/Lauren scenario where both sucked so the guy won by default, a Lee/Crystal scenario where the girl was SO much obviously better than the guy at everything and still lost, or even a Phil/Jessica one where both had fairly noticeable flaws and strengths (IMO) but the guy still won anyway for being cute.

I agree with all of this. Good points. Also not for nothing, but I was a huge Kradam fan on Season 8 (I wanted Gokey out SO bad) and I still think they're the best F2 this show has ever produced. I think they're both talented and actually...I like them both as people quite a bit.

 

[MattClaimer]

LOL. The show is all about shilling Coca-Cola, Ford cars, and whatever overpriced crap Jimmy Iovine is whoring out to the sheep. The winner isn't chosen solely on talent, but rather whoever can pander best to stupid teenage girls and bored, horny housewives. The recent string of mid-talented pretty white boy flash-in-the-pans is proof of that.

Well you don't think the producers do this strictly to add to the "talent" pool of the world..... of course they're all in it to make money, that's what it's all about, capitalism and who can make the most for the least effort. But the singers are still judged on their talent and this boy has more than the girl.

But LOL - glad to know you've got it all figured out. I'll sleep better tonight.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

But the singers are still judged on their talent

LMAO! How can you say that with a straight face when MOST OF THEIR WINNERS fail to make it in music after the show, and many are outshone by people who placed lower than them in the competition? Clay Aiken, Jennifer Hudson, Chris Daughtry and Adam Lambert have all been more successful in the real world than the winners of their seasons. And that's not even counting people like Melinda Doolittle, Crystal Bowersox and Haley Reinhart who were clearly more talented than the people who beat them in the competition.

 

[slipintothefog]

It's hard for the singers to be judged at all because this current crop of judges is a trio of blithering idiots who don't even know what criticism is or refuse to offer it in fear of being booed by the studio audience, also.

 

[MattClaimer]

LMAO! How can you say that with a straight face when MOST OF THEIR WINNERS fail to make it in music after the show, and many are outshone by people who placed lower than them in the competition? Clay Aiken, Jennifer Hudson, Chris Daughtry and Adam Lambert have all been more successful in the real world than the winners of their seasons. And that's not even counting people like Melinda Doolittle, Crystal Bowersox and Haley Reinhart who were clearly more talented than the people who beat them in the competition.

It all depends on your definition of the word talent. And also, just because they fail to make it outside of the Idol arena, doesn't mean they're not talented. Bad producers, agents, management or maybe they just simply weren't/aren't ready for the big time and decided against moving forward. Again, depends on one's definition of the word.....

 

[MattClaimer]

And when I said "they're all in it to make money" I was not referring to the singers/artists, etc. That reference was about the big money behind the show. Those people couldn't care any less what happens to the "winners" after the fact. The producers, executives, sponsors, etc. have all made their money and what happens after that "winner" walks off the stage, is not their interest. They're already getting things ready for the hundreds of millions to be made in the next season of the show.

Whether the "winners" make money after they walk off that stage is up to them and their handlers. Idol gets them a recording contract and that's about it. Sponsors may take a gamble and see what happens, but they aren't going to back anyone until they're a sure thing.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

It all depends on your definition of the word talent.

Fair enough. But your first statement -- "the singers are still judged on their talent" -- can only be true if you believe that every elimination is purely talent-based, that the voters always get it right, and that the best singers always outlast the lesser talented ones. Is this what you really believe? I'm not being snide, I'm really asking because I'm curious. Because that statement really surprised me. I've never heard anyone say that the singers on Idol are judged solely on talent. Not even from people who love the winners.

For example, do you believe every winner was the most talented of their season? Do you believe Blake Lewis was more talented than Melinda Doolittle? Do you believe Lauren Alaina was more talented than Pia and Haley last season?

 

[Sgt Pepper]

It's hard for the singers to be judged at all because this current crop of judges is a trio of blithering idiots who don't even know what criticism is or refuse to offer it in fear of being booed by the studio audience, also.

Thanks for always adding the salient point I forgot to include, dear.