Americans First – Citizenism as a Moral Principle to Regulate Immigration

[Benvolio]

If my ancestors had followed this, maybe we could have kept out the Puritans and the racists.

As for allowing immigrants, you've never actually even addressed the root issues, or rather root issue, because it comes down to self-ownership. Instead you turn to pragmatism -- the very approach you reject in favor of ideology when it comes to economics.

Pragmatism is critical as the guide to governmental action, including economic policy. But, what will work is often debatable, and economics is not the only consideration. Open borders would result more people and, in theory, a larger economy, but with catastrophic results in all other respect: crime, poverty, unemployment, the environment, schools, health care. Pragmatic economics does not ignore all the other problems.

 

[Benvolio]

I seem to recall some expressions of discordant conflict along the way.




Maybe a better word is coalition.





I will keep that in mind.

The challenge I perceive is that you have never successfully demonstrated how immigration harms America. You’ve added numerous anecdotal, unsubstantiated, or perhaps speculative observations to a variety of discussions. But the evidence to support those “slogans” is lacking.

I have been watching and researching this concept for quite some time and the closest match to any formal exposition of the viewpoints you express relative to immigration is that of Steve Sailer. Indeed, as I noted above his argument / moral theory / concept / political philosophy appears to have found its way into the lexicon of a number of contemporary political leaders and media operatives. I would enjoy learning what you consider to be the source of your view, though I suppose you can argue that it is your own.

If you are inclined to suggest the latter, then you owe the forum more than another recital of the unsubstantiated. An absence of factual substance directs attribution to the originator of the philosophy – the guy who first published and made it “famous.”

Obama In 1998: "I Actually Believe In Redistribution" (September 2012)

Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform. (January 2013)

Native American PWNS immigration protest (February 2013)

Raise the minimum wage now (February 2013)

Income Inequality Flash Video (March 2013)

Republican Congressman Uses Racial Slurs Against Mexicans (March 2013)

Give us your tired your poor, yearning for welfare and bombs. (April 2013)

"Low-IQ Hispanics" Scholar at Heritage Foundation Resigns (May 2013)

It is Now Politically Correct for Liberals to Think Logically about Immigration (June 2013)[SUP]*[/SUP]

Effects of Immigration Reform and Demographics in US Presidential Elections (June 2013)

Immigration and Crime (October 2013)

On Gay Republicans . . . (November 2013)

Will unemployment benefits be extended? (January 2014)

What Happens When You Just Hand Out Money to Poor People? (January 2014)​

[SUP]*[/SUP]Echoes of Separation

It is scary to know that the democrats in Congress are driven by the same irrational and illogical thinking, adopting policies and laws just because the half the country who oppose them are bad people.

 

[Kulindahr]

It is scary to know that the democrats in Congress are driven by the same irrational and illogical thinking, adopting policies and laws just because the half the country who oppose them are bad people.

Asking you to justify your opinions with facts is "irrational and illogical thinking"?

BTW, the primary user of the "they're bad people!" argument here is you, along with Reardon: you're driven by opposition to "liberals" . . . but you don't even know what a liberal is, since by your definition Reagan and Eisenhower were liberals.

 

[Benvolio]

Asking you to justify your opinions with facts is "irrational and illogical thinking"?

BTW, the primary user of the "they're bad people!" argument here is you, along with Reardon: you're driven by opposition to "liberals" . . . but you don't even know what a liberal is, since by your definition Reagan and Eisenhower were liberals.

Specifically in this thread, it is opinterph's position that we should have massive immigration because people who oppose it are bad people.
So, any support I presented would,by definition, be from a bad person.

 

[TX-Beau]

Asking you to justify your opinions with facts is "irrational and illogical thinking"?

BTW, the primary user of the "they're bad people!" argument here is you, along with Reardon: you're driven by opposition to "liberals" . . . but you don't even know what a liberal is, since by your definition Reagan and Eisenhower were liberals.

I can't believe I have to explain this to you Kuli "LIBERALS," are debauched child fucking husks of the demon possessed, abroad in the world to bring about their Satanic Majesty's plan of commie taxation, nanny states with universal healthcare and clean environments, at the expense of profit most high and holy!

Reagan was the Christ Child reborn, while Eisenhower was the harbinger of the end times.

"...and ye shall know the end times for the lamb shall be no more, and the rivers will run with miasma, and thine shores smothered in muck, there shall be drought, and thy isles lashed with storms, yea and there shall be a great outcry from the unworthy for clean water and reduced carbon footprints!

Many shall be seduced by the offers of health and pristine state parks, but WOE UNTO THEM, for the great invisible hand shall wreak it's vengeance in great wroth!..."

 

[Kulindahr]

Specifically in this thread, it is opinterph's position that we should have massive immigration because people who oppose it are bad people.
So, any support I presented would,by definition, be from a bad person.

Citation, please?

Claiming that to be opinterph's position betrays your inability to think on anything above a simplistic binary level.

By your reasoning, if communist China and Japan both fired on a North Korean missile ship, it would mean that Japan supports totalitarian communism.

So . . . citation, please?

 

[Benvolio]

Citation, please?

Claiming that to be opinterph's position betrays your inability to think on anything above a simplistic binary level.

By your reasoning, if communist China and Japan both fired on a North Korean missile ship, it would mean that Japan supports totalitarian communism.

So . . . citation, please?

Remember the Peanuts cartoons where the little girl promises to hold the football for Charlie to kick? She always pulls it away at the last second. Charlie never learns. I have learned that any citation I give will be rejected as bad because the liberals disagree. Unlike Charlie, I have learned not to fall for it.

 

[TX-Beau]

No, your citations are bad because they generally don't say what you claim they say.

 

[TX-Beau]

And frankly you've never given citations on your core arguments.

WHERE does it say that liberals want to abort American fetuses in favor of importing "poor" people for example?

 

[xbuzzerx]

No, your citations are bad because they generally don't say what you claim they say.

Or are incredibly biased, objectively laughable sources.

Yes Benvolio, we won't be particularly persuaded by an article from Stormfront.org or some far right wing blogosphere site with an explanation of why all nonwhite immigration and ethnic mixing is bad, but that doesn't mean we refuse any evidence.

 

[Benvolio]

And frankly you've never given citations on your core arguments.

WHERE does it say that liberals want to abort American fetuses in favor of importing "poor" people for example?

It is a liberal dogma that the conservatives here never think for themselves, and merely repeat talking points. You seem now to be giving me credit for an original thought. WOW! But if gave you a citation, you would go back to the talking points argument. I don't think I will kick your football.

 

[TX-Beau]

Just because it's your core argument, doesn't mean I think you came up with it yourself.

Now stop dodging and answer the question.

 

[bankside]

It's not that other races are bad, it's just sometimes they happen to be Kenyan socialists!!! Surely having multi ethnic heritage you must feel the turmoil of being pulled between two different economic systems.

 

[xbuzzerx]

It is a liberal dogma that the conservatives here never think for themselves, and merely repeat talking points. You seem now to be giving me credit for an original thought. WOW! But if gave you a citation, you would go back to the talking points argument. I don't think I will kick your football.

Probably because we know that the reason you claim liberals support abortion has absolutely no bearing whatsoever to the actual reason any of us support a woman's right to control her own reproduction and body, that we neither know nor care what the likely future political affiliation of any aborted fetus would be, that it would be entirely speculative in any event, and that you have never substantiated that a woman's right to choose disproportionately affects one political demographic, or that liberals or Democrats en masse support it for the reason of political gerrymandering.

You simply say that it's obvious that this is their agenda, as well as the agenda of any Democratic politician in office who has voted to support a woman's right to choose, with utterly no substantiation of any kind. You have at absolute best an unsubstantiated circumstantial argument, but it's more like a conspiracy theory.

Additionally, I have been fairly consistent in pointing out that none of your rhetoric on immigration is anything new, in fact, it's centuries old and was used against a multitude of groups no one today would say with a straight face "should have been kept out because they've been a drain on our society."

 

[TX-Beau]

It's not that other races are bad, it's just sometimes they happen to be Kenyan socialists!!! Surely having multi ethnic heritage you must feel the turmoil of being pulled between two different economic systems.

I know how torn I feel having all that Scottish blood demanding haggis, that denies the dribble of French in there that just wants its wine and cheese.

I feel SOOOOO torn, and then BOTH are immigrants, which is why I have this overwhelming desire to take a White American's strawberry picking job away from him, while passing out birth control at WHITE American middle schools!

WAIT, I AM A WHITE AMERICAN!!!

So confused.....

 

[Benvolio]

It's not that other races are bad, it's just sometimes they happen to be Kenyan socialists!!! Surely having multi ethnic heritage you must feel the turmoil of being pulled between two different economic systems.

I don't think he feels any pull from the capitalist side; for him the pull is entirely from the Marxist side.

 

[TX-Beau]

I agree Reagan was a Marxist.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I know how torn I feel having all that Scottish blood demanding haggis, that denies the dribble of French in there that just wants its wine and cheese.

Err, so were the Scottish ancestors all shooters?

 

[TX-Beau]

No, Beaulieu was my Great Grandpa's name on my mother's side.

 

[TX-Beau]

They was Cajuns.