The Original Gay Porn Community - Free Gay Movies and Photos, Gay Porn Site Reviews and Adult Gay Forums

  • Welcome To Just Us Boys - The World's Largest Gay Message Board Community

    In order to comply with recent US Supreme Court rulings regarding adult content, we will be making changes in the future to require that you log into your account to view adult content on the site.
    If you do not have an account, please register.
    REGISTER HERE - 100% FREE / We Will Never Sell Your Info

    To register, turn off your VPN; you can re-enable the VPN after registration. You must maintain an active email address on your account: disposable email addresses cannot be used to register.

And the Affordable Health Care Exchanges are UP

Maybe, maybe not. The fact that most people will be getting insurance they can't afford to use will keep the complaint stream at flood stage.

This is the greatest threat to Obamacare. If many people discover they are paying a lot for nothing, they are likely to complain, and complain bitterly. People may increasingly just opt out of the system and pay the fine, which will make the system unsustainable.


We can hope that this will lead Republicans to actually introduce some market-based remedies (e.g. more medical schools, immediate-care clinics, not-for-profit fraternal benefit companies), but with the Tea Partites in the mix nothing is going to pass that any significant number of Democrats like.

The medical industry is not subject to market forces, so it is not possible to introduce "market-based remedies." The people who pay the bills are not (generally) the people utilizing the services. Many providers (like hospitals) enjoy legal monopolies. The decision to purchase medical services is not driven by the consumer's ability to pay, but by the unpredictable onset of disease or accident. Selecting therapies on the basis of their cost is not necessarily medically appropriate. And the "insurance" model of paying for healthcare is fundamentally flawed. Insurance works when the vast majority of people pay a little for catastrophic coverage, but never utilize the service. Almost everyone who pays for healthcare utilizes healthcare services at some point.

The fundamental problem with Obamacare is that it is an attempt to use markets to control an industry that is largely immune to market forces. That is why national health services in the rest of the developed world have been so much more successful at containing costs than in the United States.
 
The fundamental problem with Obamacare is that it is an attempt to use markets to control an industry that is largely immune to market forces. That is why national health services in the rest of the developed world have been so much more successful at containing costs than in the United States.


...and despite shortcomings, providing a superior service.
 
The medical industry is not subject to market forces, so it is not possible to introduce "market-based remedies." The people who pay the bills are not (generally) the people utilizing the services. Many providers (like hospitals) enjoy legal monopolies. The decision to purchase medical services is not driven by the consumer's ability to pay, but by the unpredictable onset of disease or accident. Selecting therapies on the basis of their cost is not necessarily medically appropriate. And the "insurance" model of paying for healthcare is fundamentally flawed. Insurance works when the vast majority of people pay a little for catastrophic coverage, but never utilize the service. Almost everyone who pays for healthcare utilizes healthcare services at some point.

The fundamental problem with Obamacare is that it is an attempt to use markets to control an industry that is largely immune to market forces. That is why national health services in the rest of the developed world have been so much more successful at containing costs than in the United States.

Absolutely agreed about market forces. Ideally, health care should be universal, single payer, nationally funded, with private insurance only covering things like cosmetic surgeries or voodoo experimental stuff like having your head cryogenically frozen when you die.

However, I don't think the current US system is a mistake. First of all, just by comparison, doctors in Canada are not employees of the government. A medical clinic is a private practice owned by the doctor. Hospitals are run by not-for-profits set up by charitable organisations, or incorporated by the government but by no means a part of it. The difference is, all these private providers send the bill to the government instead of the patient.

In the States, billing will continue to be a nightmare as insurance companies fight patients over premiums, subsidies, co-pays. But that can be regulated. (and should be, given the imbalance of market forces you point out.) The government used to even regulate what airlines could charge in ticket costs. At that point you'll have essentially a single payer system, and the regulated premiums will essentially be like taxes. So instead of paying income tax to the government as I do, you'd pay an equivalent premium. Instead of a government health department bureaucrat cutting the cheque to the private doctor as I have, the insurance company will cut the cheque to the private doctor.

So I see this as an evolutionary thing, and that this is a good step.

BTW you seriously have to get rid of co-payments, or at least reduce them to a tiny percentage. I looked at that web site and it was saying basic insurance only covers 60% of the cost??!! That gets expensive fast.
 
I think it's pretty obvious... sabotaged by a Tea Party hacker :lol:

nvm... can't be that sophisticated
 
However, I don't think the current US system is a mistake. First of all, just by comparison, doctors in Canada are not employees of the government. A medical clinic is a private practice owned by the doctor. Hospitals are run by not-for-profits set up by charitable organisations, or incorporated by the government but by no means a part of it. The difference is, all these private providers send the bill to the government instead of the patient.

All of the national health services of which I am aware, in every developed country, work this way. There is a misperception in the USA that national healthcare systems in developed countries are bureaucracies in which every provider works for the government, which is the only source of healthcare. The reality is that national healthcare systems come much closer to a true market-based economic system than does the heavily socialized system currently operating in the US.


In the States, billing will continue to be a nightmare as insurance companies fight patients over premiums, subsidies, co-pays.

Yes, this is another problem with Obamacare/private insurance.

A big reason for the inefficiency of the American system is the need for medical providers to maintain large staffs of billing people who spend their careers fighting insurance companies. And on the other side, insurance companies maintain large staffs of people to fight the providers. It causes long delays in reimbursement to providers, and often draws in the patient, who is typically demanded to pay for services his insurance company has agreed to cover, but is fighting.

No industry on earth operates with less efficiency than the American healthcare system. It is as bad as commerce gets.


So I see this as an evolutionary thing, and that this is a good step.

Obamacare is better than doing nothing. Healthcare chews up ~18% of the American economy, about twice as much as any other nation on earth. It is destroying American competitiveness. It gets worse every year. It is absolutely unsustainable.

But, as an "evolutionary step," Obamacare is a tiny one. It does little to address the underlying problems of American healthcare. And it is unlikely to evolve into a system competitive with current European or Canadian systems within any of our lifetimes.


BTW you seriously have to get rid of co-payments, or at least reduce them to a tiny percentage. I looked at that web site and it was saying basic insurance only covers 60% of the cost??!! That gets expensive fast.

Yes, exactly. This is what I keep saying.

Most people are going to go with the less expensive plans, because that is the minimum they will be able to afford. But those plans are worthless. The patients will still be responsible for about 40% the cost of covered services. And a lot of services are not covered at all. The less expensive plans have high deductibles and large copays. All of which means that patients still will not be able to afford healthcare in the United States. Middle class people are being required to pay a great deal of money for no real healthcare coverage at all.

It is sad that the richest nation on earth is the only developed nation that cannot afford to take care if its people.
 
$634,320,919 on a website that is not working ...it's your money people!
 
It should have been tested in a smaller regional setting... frankly the best thing to take the sails out of the "Affordable" Healthcare Act IS fully implementing it and have it implode like it is designed to, unintentionally OR not. But that would do too much damage and proving a point on a scale this huge just would be a disaster. Suffice to say it should have been less broad and ambitious and allow the states to use certain policies in an experimental setting on a smaller, non mandatory scale. Defend affordable health care for all to one's heart's content.. I am not saying this current system is so great. there are MANY problems and access to good health care shouldn't be limited to the wealthy and those covered by the most expansive policies. However this health legislation was doomed for "do not resuscitate" from the start. Republicans may have not widely displayed a fair sense of openness to negotiation about details from the start, but what was come up with has even many loyal supposedly Democratic supporting groups and interests confused, upset and frustrated.
 
I am not saying this current system is so great. there are MANY problems and access to good health care shouldn't be limited to the wealthy and those covered by the most expansive policies.

A slight correction here-- it wasn't just the poor who couldn't get coverage. Diabetics, older people or people with any sort of chronic or preexisting condition were pretty much coverage lepers. Couldn't get it at all, almost regardless of how much they were willing to pay, in the standard market.
 
A slight correction here-- it wasn't just the poor who couldn't get coverage. Diabetics, older people or people with any sort of chronic or preexisting condition were pretty much coverage lepers. Couldn't get it at all, almost regardless of how much they were willing to pay, in the standard market.

HA! Tell an insurance company you've had a kidney transplant or skin cancer and see how many beat your door down offing you policies. Thankfully the ACA and President Obama put a stop to the insurance companies predatory ways.
 
The medical industry is not subject to market forces, so it is not possible to introduce "market-based remedies."

Sure it is. What market-based approaches can do is limited, but they can make a difference. First would be breaking the AMA's monopoly on the supply of doctors, second would be encouraging not-for-profit insurance. Both would reduce medical care costs.
 
It's been leaked from HHS to The Daily Mail that about 50,000 people signed up in the first week. No number available for those who signed up on the healthcare.gov website or each state.
 
Sure it is. What market-based approaches can do is limited, but they can make a difference. First would be breaking the AMA's monopoly on the supply of doctors, second would be encouraging not-for-profit insurance. Both would reduce medical care costs.

No, it's not. When you are experiencing chest pain, you don't go to the hospital 30 miles away which is having a special on myocardial infarctions. When your doctor refers you to a specialist, you don't shop for the one with the best price. When you need an antibiotic, you don't comparison-shop the various available antibiotics and select the one with the best cost/benefit ratio for you - you just fill what your doctor prescribed. Etc., etc., etc.

And the AMA does not control the supply of doctors in the United States. The supply is controlled by individual states, based on their finances (and, these days, also by immigration). The AMA has no input into this process whatsoever. But, either way, it is not market forces controlling the supply of physicians.

Very little about the medical industry is driven by traditional market forces. That's how it has managed to careen out of control in the first place. And it is not regulation of the markets which will reign it in.
 
Sure it is. What market-based approaches can do is limited, but they can make a difference. First would be breaking the AMA's monopoly on the supply of doctors, second would be encouraging not-for-profit insurance. Both would reduce medical care costs.

There needs to be a standard-setting body to ensure doctors are qualified. I think a better alternative might be investigating for signs of "regulatory capture." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

It is possible that the system is working to limit the supply of doctors. It is just the duty of regulators to push in the other direction.

Alberta quite stupidly balanced its budget in the 1990's by cutting half the medical school positions through restrictions on university budgets. Then it complained about the soaring cost of medical care and doctor shortages as the effects of the earlier policy choice took hold. I have some experience, and therefore some sympathy, with the notion of an artificial shortage of doctors having a predictably negative effect on health care affordability. However I really think "regulatory capture" is what's at play. T-rexx is right about the market not offering a solution:

No, it's not. When you are experiencing chest pain, you don't go to the hospital 30 miles away which is having a special on myocardial infarctions. When your doctor refers you to a specialist, you don't shop for the one with the best price. When you need an antibiotic, you don't comparison-shop the various available antibiotics and select the one with the best cost/benefit ratio for you - you just fill what your doctor prescribed. Etc., etc., etc.

And the AMA does not control the supply of doctors in the United States. The supply is controlled by individual states, based on their finances (and, these days, also by immigration). The AMA has no input into this process whatsoever. But, either way, it is not market forces controlling the supply of physicians.

Very little about the medical industry is driven by traditional market forces. That's how it has managed to careen out of control in the first place. And it is not regulation of the markets which will reign it in.

Thank you. All good points. Still chuckling about the two-for-one myocardial infarctions. Discount thoracic surgery? Dr. Nick Riviera was a joke…
 
^ The real plot is to make Americans so frustrated that they finally wake up and smell the coffee and demand a single payer system. Like the rest of the civilized western nations have. You just caught us out.
 
^ The real plot is to make Americans so frustrated that they finally wake up and smell the Tim Hortons coffee and demand a single payer system. Like the rest of the civilized western nations have. You just caught us out.

I agree, it's a travesty that we don't have that.
 
Why didn't the dem's pass a social health care system when they controlled it all?
 
Why didn't the dem's pass a social health care system when they controlled it all?

Because Scott Brown was elected before they could muscle Ben Nelson on a public option.

If Ted Kennedy hadn't died, we would have real government funded or subsidized universal care like every other god damn developed country in the world.
 
The democrats controlled it all, but still don't want to take the blame.
 
Back
Top