On-Topic Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

[xbuzzerx]

Yes, the Arabs had a period of cultural advancement, with several inventions, but then they became stagnant, apparently as a result of the increasingly authoritarian power of the Muslim clerics. China as well had such a period long ago, but went stagnant, even as Europe stagnanted during the Dark Ages after the fall of Rome, and prior to the European Renaissance.

No they didn't. They were set back and didn't recover for almost a millenium from the conquest of the Mongols, which wrecked the Middle East and completely bypassed Europe because Europe was a backwards, over-forested barbaric land useless for horses and too poor to be worth conquering. The riches and civilization and everything worth plundering was in the Middle East, not Europe, and the degree to which the Mongols devastated them is only very passingly mentioned in western history. The Mongols in many cases eradicated entire cities down to the last man, woman and child. And that was also frequently their reaction to any uprising against their rule, as well. They would even pull their army out of a sacked city for 3 days, to let any who escaped or survived go back home, and then return and re-raze it and kill everyone they could find.

But I'm sure, more than that, their "culture" (which had put them virtually at the forefront of human progress) suddenly stagnated them to death. Sure.

 

[Rolyo85]

Ugh, you almost make it sound like Anglo-Saxon culture isn't inherently better by virtue of its very genetics than any other in the world. Have you no decency?!

 

[Kulindahr]

Again those pesky citizens are committing more crimes. Undocumented immigrants actually commit less crime according to several prestigious studies.

A local study found that this is true here, and that when illegals do commit crime the crimes tend to be mostly petty ones; the exceptions tend to be aggravated assault and rape. There is far more trouble from those who believe that this country should be "white and Christian".

 

[Kulindahr]

Utter nonsense. There are many Caucasian countries that are very poor like in Eastern Europe. And there are some Hispanic countries that are actually quite wealthy. Stop splitting hairs. Some cultures are definitely not more successful than others... wrong on ALL COUNTS.

Yep. Consider Brazil: one of the fastest growing economies in the world, actually paying down its national debt, and steadily climbing the ladder of the most productive and prosperous.

 

[Kulindahr]

Most immigrants come here for superior economic advantages, but that is a function of culture, particularly a culture friendly to business and rewarding innovation. Other people could have invented telegraph, telephone, phonograph, electrical distribution and appliances, airplane, transistor etc etc, etc. but they did not. In many other instances inventions were made by other but developed, improved and mass produced in America. We did not invent the railroad, but we soon had more miles than he rest of the world combined. Ford did not invent the auto, but quickly revolutionized the world with his. Not the radio, but the vacuum tube which gave it sound. Not the computer, but the transistor which revolutionized electronics. We continue lead the world in innovation. Use google to see the namely prize winners in the sciences and medicine and you will see how the US and UK have dominated. Some by immigrants but working in the environment created by our culture.

And how are those record miles of high-speed rail doing lately?

 

[Kulindahr]

By the way, who built the railroads in this country particularly on the west coast?

Socialism did it.

 

[Kulindahr]

Brazil has a better atmosphere for investment and development than the United States right now, and Brazil is operated by some pinko commie socialists (using right winger logic).

The World Bank rates Brazil as 130th on their "ease of doing business" scale -- not exactly in the upper ranks. The US is rated fourth.

 

[Kulindahr]

Strange that you would invoke Mathematics, Fury. If we have too many poor people,then bring in millions of additional poor people, we will have more poor people than before. It always astonishes me that I must argue propositions that are obvious and indisputable.

The US had gobs of poor people. Then it brought in poor Italians, poor Irish, poor Germans, poor Chinese... and ended up0 with a smaller portion of poor people than before.

Maybe we should import more poor people!

 

[Benvolio]

The US had gobs of poor people. Then it brought in poor Italians, poor Irish, poor Germans, poor Chinese... and ended up0 with a smaller portion of poor people than before.

Maybe we should import more poor people!

Please remember that the immigration you describe facilitated the discrimination against African Americans, who made little progress during that period. Employers needing workers could and did hire immigrants rather than African Americans. In those olden days of yore, the government was friendly to business, not the enemy, and labor unions were weak. Foreign competition did not exist. Now that combination has destroyed much of our heavy industry. Even the advocates of immigration say they are here for very low paying jobs, even as government burdens force such jobs overseas.

 

[palemale]

The US had gobs of poor people. Then it brought in poor Italians, poor Irish, poor Germans, poor Chinese... and ended up0 with a smaller portion of poor people than before.

Maybe we should import more poor people!

The Irish were instrumental in building the labor movement. Three of the five presidents of the AFL-CIO were Irish Americans from the Bronx.

 

[HenryReardon]

.

I say this to you as a friend, Giancarlo: When someone keeps answering 2 + 2 = 5 after you keep repeatedly showing him that 2 + 2 = 4, it's time to go home, put an Al Green record on and take a nice hot bath.

The problem is this: Giancarlo is the one who's insisting that 2 + 2 = 5.

 

[Benvolio]

Socialism, defined as the government ownership or control of the means of production, did not build the railroads. It provided incentives in the form of land grants, but then the government stepped aside and the railroads were built with great speed and owned by private interprise. The government neither owned or controlled them.

 

[Benvolio]

American laborers would like to regain those big paying heavy industry jobs.

 

[xbuzzerx]

American laborers would like to regain those big paying heavy industry jobs.

They moved overseas dude. You think factory work is still here and just went to immigrants? Get real.

 

[mightbe]

Benvolio-all the jobs that will be taken by Americans have been taken by Americans. They don't want the jobs that are filled with illegal immigrants, which is why they can get them in the first place. Removing immigrants means that Americans suddenly get their shitty jobs, and they'll want more for it. Jobs must be created for Americans with help from the federal government, as some have been. There's too many of us and too few jobs we'll take.

 

[Benvolio]

The reason the jobs are low paying is because there are so many people willing to work cheap. Stop the immigration and let employers pay more. But it is wrong to assume that the problem is only illegals. The economic effects of legal immigration are much the same. Is taxi driving such a bad job that Americans will not take it? I think not. Construction? Factories?
Low paying jobs often cost the country more than he are worth. Our taxpayers nod up having to give the workers welfare, food stamps, health care, schools for their children,subsidized housing. Far better to send those jobs to other countries.

 

[xbuzzerx]

The reason the jobs are low paying is because there are so many people willing to work cheap. Stop the immigration and let employers pay more. But it is wrong to assume that the problem is only illegals. The economic effects of legal immigration are much the same. Is taxi driving such a bad job that Americans will not take it? I think not. Construction? Factories?
Low paying jobs often cost the country more than he are worth. Our taxpayers nod up having to give the workers welfare, food stamps, health care, schools for their children,subsidized housing. Far better to send those jobs to other countries.

You're just repeating this over and over again. Evidence doesn't support your position. As pointed out above the inflow of Irish and Italian immigrants ultimately moved more native borns upwards in terms of income and socioeconomic class.

Your position only makes sense to you because you operate from this factually incorrect mindset that all immigrants do is come in here and suck at resources and do not contribute anything. Any immigrant here is eating here, paying for a roof here, buying goods here. You remove them and you also remove a lot of demand from the economy.

 

[mightbe]

I'm more specifically referring to agricultural jobs, in which case it is beyond optimal for all parties for those positions to be taken by those that need the little money the job offers. Don't you like that food is by-and-large cheap? The only reason some Mexicans aren't here legally is because you don't have to fly or take a boat to get here. Mexicans come from the border and up. Along the way (depending on where) you'll be likely to find orchards and farms in southern California, ranching operations in Texas and New Mexico, and god knows what in Aridzone. The point is, they take under the table jobs that give them money they need and keep the domestic cost of food low to everyone. It's far more likely for an illegal immigrant to get a job in unskilled agriculture (an insignificant one to most of us) than to sign on with a taxi company. Taxi companies are higher up, they have more to lose. Hence, many Mexican taxi drivers are here legally. Agriculture is more rural and is easier to do under-the-table work away from the roving eyes of a large population.

 

[mightbe]

And as buzzer said, they contribute what they make. They don't waste it. They can't afford to.

 

[Benvolio]

Cheap food is an illusion if we have to give them schools, health care, food stamps etc. But illegals do much more than agricultural. Much of the construction, restaurant, hotel, etc work as well. And again, legal immigrants compete with Americans and pull wages down as well.
Actually much of the agricultural workers are here on temporary work permits, and are expected to return home.