On-Topic Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

[xbuzzerx]

When low-skill jobs are taken by “guest workers,” the effect generally has an upward benefit for “native” workers at all skill levels. The guest workers create demand, which increases industry and productivity. If guest workers were not available, some jobs would simply cease to exist. After a certain wage point, it becomes more expedient to outsource those jobs to another country with lower wages. It’s just as likely for the work to go where the labor is as it is for labor to go where the work is.

I believe this is the first post from anyone other than Giancarlo to address my repeated asking of anyone to examine what immigrant workers "put into" the economy in any discussion where people are going to throw numbers around about what they "cost" the economy. Thank you.

 

[Rolyo85]

What does it MATTER what language is spoken in the country immigrants are trying to get into?

How is this relevant to anything? I don't see why it's even coming up other than in some broad-brush attempt to paint all Spanish speaking countries as inherently undesirable because it has hispanic, spanish speaking people in it.

Because English is the Superior language and is spoken by the Superior cultures, duh. I thought it was obvious what he meant.

 

[Benvolio]

You are correct, it should read "white Christian, originally Protestant majority."

 

[opinterph]

You are correct, it should read "white Christian, originally Protestant majority."

To whom or what are you responding?

 

[Benvolio]

You are correct, it should read "white Christian, originally Protestant majority."

xbuzzerx pointed our that typing mistake to me.

 

[Benvolio]

Are you suggesting there is a correlation between a particular language and aptitude, general intelligence, or success?

Absolutely not. But there is no question that some countries and cultures have been more successful than others, economically and in other respects. You can argue about the reasons, but I believe they are predominately cultural, and language is at least a distinguishing element or marker of the cultures.

 

[Benvolio]

When low-skill jobs are taken by “guest workers,” the effect generally has an upward benefit for “native” workers at all skill levels. The guest workers create demand, which increases industry and productivity. If guest workers were not available, some jobs would simply cease to exist. After a certain wage point, it becomes more expedient to outsource those jobs to another country with lower wages. It’s just as likely for the work to go where the labor is as it is for labor to go where the work is.

Both are happening. Cheap labor is coming here at the same time that jobs are being sent elsewhere to escape the many burdens of employment in the US. As a result we are building a large permanent underclass of poor and unemployed.
Your argument suggests that wages in the US for unskilled workers are keeping up with inflation, does it not? I don't believe that is true. It also assumes that the creation of demand is all important. But how does population increase affect other problems? Are pollution, green house emissions, sewage, urban sprawl, etc improved or made worse by population growth? Is crime helped by population growth or increased by it. Americans are told that they must sacrifice to reduce emissions, even as we bring in millions of more people. Schools? The health care problem? All out problems and indeed the worlds problems are made worse by population growth.

 

[Benvolio]

Most immigrants come here for superior economic advantages, but that is a function of culture, particularly a culture friendly to business and rewarding innovation. Other people could have invented telegraph, telephone, phonograph, electrical distribution and appliances, airplane, transistor etc etc, etc. but they did not. In many other instances inventions were made by other but developed, improved and mass produced in America. We did not invent the railroad, but we soon had more miles than he rest of the world combined. Ford did not invent the auto, but quickly revolutionized the world with his. Not the radio, but the vacuum tube which gave it sound. Not the computer, but the transistor which revolutionized electronics. We continue lead the world in innovation. Use google to see the namely prize winners in the sciences and medicine and you will see how the US and UK have dominated. Some by immigrants but working in the environment created by our culture.

 

[Benvolio]

Which Hispanic countries would you consider rich, Giancarlo? Google, under Median Houshold Income shows:US 31,111; Spain 18,860, 7, 851; Chile 7,851; Mexico 4,689. These are 2007 figures, probably worse now. I agree with your decision to choose the US.

 

[Benvolio]

Look again, Giancarlo. I said most immigrants come here for "superior economic advantages". But a favorable cultural climate creates those advantages, encouraging innovation and free enterprise.

 

[Benvolio]

So, since you claim that all those countries have economies equal to or better than ours, why do they come by the millions, with millions more wanting to come?

 

[Rolyo85]

I have to ask - where are all those untold millions of immigrants? I am beginning to imagine them as some nanomachine locust-like black cloud sandstorm that just engulfs cities and leave economic ruins...

 

[Benvolio]

Illegal immigration may or may not be down a little. Does someone stand at the border and count them as they sneak in? Or should we believe the immigration beaurocrats' estimate of the number of their failures. None the less they come in larges numbers, however fewer. No one claims it has stopped. Legal immigrants continue at about a million a year.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Absolutely not. But there is no question that some countries and cultures have been more successful than others, economically and in other respects. You can argue about the reasons, but I believe they are predominately cultural, and language is at least a distinguishing element or marker of the cultures.

Look at any corner of the world that is economically behind and like clockwork you'll be looking almost invariably at parts of the world that were systematically colonized, wrecked, plundered and finally "released" by colonial, usually European or western, countries which enriched themselves in the bargain.

It might be prudent to examine that as a reason why they might be behind economically compared to the colonialist powers rather than reducing it to something moronic and simple like their language or 'culture' was what strip mined them and left them economically behind when entering the global economy.

Unless of course, one doesn't wish to view it that way for personal bias reasons, in which case disregard everything said, naturally.

 

[Benvolio]

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How were small numbers of Europeans able to colonize much larger populations of non Europeans? Cultural and therefore technological advancement. Firearms and naval advances were a big part of it. Why were Europeans so far ahead? The Renaissance--a big cultural change.

 

[Lostlover]

Guy is clearly trolling and people keep responding. Unreal.

We just made the GOP sit the fuck down. Why are we still talking to them as if their opinions matter? Seriously.

 

[xbuzzerx]

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How were small numbers of Europeans able to colonize much larger populations of non Europeans? Cultural and therefore technological advancement. Firearms and naval advances were a big part of it. Why were Europeans so far ahead? The Renaissance--a big cultural change.

If you use technology at any given moment as a sign of some kind of innate superiority then Europe was inferior to Arabs and Asians for the great majority of world history.

Care to comment?

 

[FuryOfFirestorm]

Guy is clearly trolling and people keep responding. Unreal.

We just made the GOP sit the fuck down. Why are we still talking to them as if their opinions matter? Seriously.

I stopped bothering to post in this thread. I just come here to laugh at Benny regurgitate the same StormFront propaganda over and over again.

I say this to you as a friend, Giancarlo: When someone keeps answering 2 + 2 = 5 after you keep repeatedly showing him that 2 + 2 = 4, it's time to go home, put an Al Green record on and take a nice hot bath.

 

[Benvolio]

Yes, the Arabs had a period of cultural advancement, with several inventions, but then they became stagnant, apparently as a result of the increasingly authoritarian power of the Muslim clerics. China as well had such a period long ago, but went stagnant, even as Europe stagnanted during the Dark Ages after the fall of Rome, and prior to the European Renaissance.

 

[Benvolio]

Strange that you would invoke Mathematics, Fury. If we have too many poor people,then bring in millions of additional poor people, we will have more poor people than before. It always astonishes me that I must argue propositions that are obvious and indisputable.