On-Topic Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

[Benvolio]

If you want to get technical there are no "races" at all, only the human race. But for the purposes of political discussion, and race in that context is always socially constructed, they are a race or a separate ethnic group treated as a stand alone race on virtually any official form today in the United States.

So what's your point?

No, there is a difference between race and culture. When you call everything racist with which you disagree, you trivialize actual racism. If everything is racism, it becomes unimportant.

 

[frankfrank]

The problem here is right wingers are scared that they are becoming an ever decreasing minority of the constituency

I bet, in a parallel universe where Mexicans (the most-blamed nationality) and other Latinos overwhelmingly vote instead for Republicans, the Republicans would be welcoming them with open arms. Not only would it allow the corporations to run roughshod over the workers by paying near-slave wages to more and more immigrants and thus allow their campaign contributors to really roll in the profits by cutting costs and eliminating all benefits, but the Republicans would get more and more votes. A sure win-win for the Republicans...but not in THIS particular parallel universe that we are familiar with.

Of course, in that other parallel universe, it would then be the DEMOCRATS screaming about immigration reform and restrictions, Papers-Please laws, etc. as much as possible. Both Parties indeed have vested interests in this.

If I were emigrating, I would want to go an English speaking country, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, US. Like you, I would not choose a Latino one.

For those of us whose first/main language is English, many of us are going to TEND to prefer an English-speaking destination. (I've seen some reference to you possibly being an immigrant in some way, but I'm not entirely clear on that, therefore I'm also not 100% sure your first language is English, but I feel pretty confident that it is.) Yes, my first language is English. No other language even CLOSE. Spanish is the only other language I know more about than what turns up in crossword puzzles and such, and my knowledge of Spanish is only a tiny fraction of my English knowledge.

As such, if I were to move to another nation/country, all of my top choices would be ones where English is spoken, at least enough to get along in daily life.

If my first (or equal) language was Spanish instead, it's very possible that I would have, by now, started working ACTIVELY on moving to another country - probably Uruguay or Chile.

If they are caught they do get penalized in this system. But I think the system should actually make it easier for people to come in and go through the processes, including apply for a green card or citizenship if possible. My friend who was brought here when he was very young (I think 11 years old, but I need to ask him again) needs to have the ability to apply in a more efficient way. The permit law (deferred action) that was signed in is going to be a help, but he's still waiting to hear back from the government... and they said they received his application back in November.

It's not an easy task, nor is it affordable for many to apply. Even the deferred action was far from cheap.

Well, if they got his application in November, he will probably get his approval in 2029 or something.

I still see NO reason why the approval process should take more than a month, with computers being EVERYWHERE!!!!!

 

[xbuzzerx]

No, there is a difference between race and culture. When you call everything racist with which you disagree, you trivialize actual racism. If everything is racism, it becomes unimportant.

But that isn't what's going on here. What's going on here is using code talk to attack the "culture" when you're really attacking an ethnic group of people. That's been the code language of all racists ever since the discreditation of biological racism after WWII. You can always spot a racist by taking their attacks on a group's "culture" and simply replacing it with their "race" and it would look exactly like what racists would have said in the 1930's or 1940's. Whether it's saying their "culture" produces more crime or their "culture" causes a lower education or whatever else.

 

[Benvolio]

False on all counts. I have provided solid evidence and proof showing how they are essential. We're talking about $2.6 trillion over the next ten years that would be wiped out. It means absolutely everything. The economy would fall back into a deep recession. Having a contraction in the GDP at that level would lead to a severe recession. sending people back to where they came from is nothing more than a xenophobic response and isn't how the real world works.

Better to have a nation with more open borders... a nation with closed borders is a dying nation. The Chinese closed off their civilization and it led once great Empires to total decline.

And yes, plenty of other arguments matter... just not the one that you have posted here which is absolutely meaningless.

The problem here is right wingers are scared that they are becoming an ever decreasing minority of the constituency. Their screwball candidates can no longer win. It's a scary prospect. Romney won the same percentage of white voters as Reagan did... one won in a landslide and the other lost big time. Scary for the right wing these days... not like I give a shit. I hope this nation becomes 40-50% Latino in 20 years, and the Republicans go out the same way as the Whigs. Yeah, all the brown people hating the GOP does will go out the window.

But that isn't what's going on here. What's going on here is using code talk to attack the "culture" when you're really attacking an ethnic group of people. That's been the code language of all racists ever since the discreditation of biological racism after WWII. You can always spot a racist by taking their attacks on a group's "culture" and simply replacing it with their "race" and it would look exactly like what racists would have said in the 1930's or 1940's. Whether it's saying their "culture" produces more crime or their "culture" causes a lower education or whatever else.

Hogwash. While Giancarlo is applauding the impending Latino majority, you, and he, are attempting to foreclose discussion of it by labeling the contrary view as racism.

 

[FuryOfFirestorm]

No, Latino is not a race. It is a culture. Giancarlo started the discussion when he first predicted the triumph of the Latino invasion. Why did you not object to that as racist? Why is it racist, in your mind, only when it is pro American?

Giancarlo predicted the rise of the careers of Jennifer Lopez, Ricky Martin, Enrique Iglesias, and Marc Anthony in 1999? That is AMAZING.

 

[Centexfarmer]

TIME OUT!

I've had similar discussions privately with almost every poster who's made the past half dozen or so posts here.

I've even tossed a few infractions in both directions.

Each of you know who you are.

But if some of y'all are going to Post Report, then defend after the fact, there's not much that I can do as a Moderator other than to delete posts, close the thread, or ban and/or infract posters.

<sigh>

To both sides of this debate, much of what has been shared is the reality of the dialogue on this issue.

At least as I personally see it here in Texas.

There are not ABSOLUTES!

From where I come from Hispanic Immigrants are migrating here, and seem to be pissed that we're not doing MORE to accommodate their being here!

Including learning their shit language, known here in Texas as "Mexican."

When most Hispanic Immigrants from Central and South America speak true Castilian Spanish.

My response?

If I moved to Mexico City, I'm willing to bet that I wouldn't find anything written in English, I wouldn't have any benefits, and would be mocked and ridiculed for not being able to speak "Mexican."

As opposed to my trips to Columbia, Venezuala, Hondorus, and Chile where my attempts at Hable Espanol were welcomed.

So yeah, there's some historical "racists" divisions between the Americano and Mexicano boarders, so let's not overlook those realities as well.

Just saying...

 

[maxpowr9]

Donde hay fe,
Hay amore.
Donde hay amore,
Hay Pas,
Donde hay pas,
Esta Dios.
Donde esta Dios,
No falta nada.

Amen

PS: Just sayin'

 

[Centexfarmer]

Donde hay fe,
Hay amore.
Donde hay amore,
Hay Pas,
Donde hay pas,
Esta Dios.
Donde esta Dios,
No falta nada.

Amen

PS: Just sayin'

Amen!

There seems to be a lot missing in this debate.

 

[maxpowr9]

Amen!

There seems to be a lot missing in this debate.

Yeah, te doy las gracias a la me escuela secundaría por las oraciónes.

It has be subjugated to me that in fact, the "Español" I learned was "Spanish" and not "Mexican".

 

[HenryReardon]

Hogwash. While Giancarlo is applauding the impending Latino majority, you, and he, are attempting to foreclose discussion of it by labeling the contrary view as racism.

That is what people on the left do when they're losing an argument - they cry racism to stop the conversation. Typical.

 

[CowboyBob]

That is what people on the left do when they're losing an argument - they cry racism to stop the conversation. Typical.

The one thing a racist hates more than a person from another race, is being called a racist.

 

[Centexfarmer]

MEXICANS SPEAK SPANISH. THIS IS FACT. I'm utterly shocked by what some say. I wouldn't go to Texas and say people speak Texan... and not English... would I?

Regarding that point, I've heard more "racist" comments from Central and South American Spanish speaking individuals from Countries outside of Mexico, than I've heard from right wing bigots here in the States.

I'm just saying there must be a "cultural and language divide" somewhere, because in this Hemisphere I'm glad I'm not a Mexican Immigrant.

 

[Centexfarmer]

What a NON-point. I'm absolutely horrified by what was said.

There are language divides even within Spanish speaking countries, including in Spain. Seriously shocked by that comment. It has absolutely no basis in reality. What Mexicans speak is SPANISH. It may be slightly different, but it's still SPANISH.

And I am not interested in anecdotal statements. Most people I know from South and Central America are fine with Mexicans. And as a Spanish person, I am PERFECTLY COMFORTABLE around Mexicans... and many of my friends are Mexican.

Bullshit!

DON'T GET ME WRONG!

I have more friends who trace their heritage back to Mexico than I do friends who trace their heritage back to Europe.

I employ more people who who's parents originate from Mexico (Legal or Not), who feel the same as I do.

So get your European Spanish Sensibilities in a wad all that you want, I'm just suggesting that you might not fully understand the historical dynamics of this side of the world as much as you might like to champion or defend what you (justifiably) consider an attack against a group that's considered "different."

 

[Centexfarmer]

^ Dude!

I'm not trying to say that you're perspective or perception is wrong because it's different from mine.

But I am saying that THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES!

Even regionally, and within different demographics, just because many of us share the same skin color, or might even speak the same language, doesn't mean that we all agree.

I figured that out of all of the posters who've posted in this thread thus far, you'd be the one to recognize that.

 

[xbuzzerx]

There is actually a hard definition of what a language is, and I'm operating off memory, but if it's mutually intelligible then it's different dialects at best, not separate languages.

Cubans, Argentinians and Mexicans would all recognizes differences in accent and certain words they use, but would be able to speak to each other... in Spanish.

 

[CowboyBob]

Mexico:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico

...is the world's eleventh most populous country and the most populous Spanish-speaking country.

Texas-speak:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Texas

Not to mention: fuutbawl, Bapteest, Dubya, Ayl-emo, ya'll, sheee-it!

 

[Centexfarmer]

I want to see where I ever said that all Latinos agree on everything. Where did I say that? Even in Spain, we have major political differences in the country and our asshole prime minister just got embroiled in a corruption scandal. There are differences in opinion in EVERY COUNTRY. It's human nature. But the overall trend for most Latin American countries is to the POLITICAL LEFT.

And most Islamist are Secular.

And we see where that's gotten them.

Really the only thing I said is that Mexicans speak Spanish, and for anyone that says otherwise... malarkey.

What's the Spanish translation for an Irish term like that?

 

[Centexfarmer]

Texas-speak:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Texas

Not to mention: fuutbawl, Bapteest, Dubya, Ayl-emo, ya'll, sheee-it!

FUN FACT!

Whenever anyone in North America buys something from China where "some assembly" is required, the instructions are printed in ONLY three languages; Spanish, English, and French.

Why?

Because those are the three most dominant languages in North America!

Not Mexican.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Nice troll...

You're calling me a "troll?"



Thank you for that!

I haven't laughed that hard all week!

 

[Centexfarmer]

I'm talking about the political trend in most Latin American countries. But I do like the leftist government in Brazil has done... Lula was more effective than Rousseff... but they have 4.9% unemployment and about +3% GDP growth (could be even higher this year... some say +4 to +5%)... also reduced crime and made cities nicer. Millions of Brazilians have entered in the middle class. While a certain guy from Crawford spent years destroying the middle class in America...

BINGO!

And now we're back on topic!

I read recently a report where most Brazilian Nationals are returning home.

Which proves to me that it's really about economics.

I honestly believe that the whole topic of American "Immigration Reform" is more about politics than economics.

Republicans want "immigrants" to keep the cost of labor down, and Democrats want "immigrants" as a potential voting bloc.

None of which has anything to do with the American "Middle Class."