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On-Topic Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

Benvolio said:
We have passed the point that any politician who attempts to limit immigration will likely lose. We have lost our ability to limit it. With it we lose our ability to make progress against poverty.
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It remains unclear how you determine “immigration causes us to lose our ability to make progress against poverty.” If true, there must surely be a source somewhere that develops this concept and uses facts to support the supposition.
 
opinterph said:
It remains unclear how you determine “immigration causes us to lose our ability to make progress against poverty.” If true, there must surely be a source somewhere that develops this concept and uses facts to support the supposition.
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If we cannot limit immigration coming into the country, we make progress against poverty. Any progress will be wiped out by presence of new arrivals, willing to work for low wages. Here is a link I posted earlier this morning, but which for some reason does not appear. http://www.heritage.org/research/re...poverty-in-the-united-states-a-book-of-charts
Here is anotherhttp://cis.org/node/3876
Here is another.http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=48520
 
If that were what American culture is about, immigrants would not want to come here by the millions.
 
Benvolio said:
If we cannot limit immigration coming into the country, we make progress against poverty. Any progress will be wiped out by presence of new arrivals, willing to work for low wages. Here is a link I posted earlier this morning, but which for some reason does not appear. http://www.heritage.org/research/re...poverty-in-the-united-states-a-book-of-charts
Here is anotherhttp://cis.org/node/3876
Here is another.http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=48520
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You never addressed my point about how for wages to ever go up even in the crappiest, hardest jobs, if we somehow put up a concrete wall and stopped 100.0% of all immigration somehow, it would only ever happen through collective bargaining and the formation of unions. Something I know you have loudly denounced in previous discussions. I'm curious how you think these jobs will simply rise to dignified wages on their own if you remove immigrants, something we have absolutely no reason to believe will happen.
 
xbuzzerx said:
You never addressed my point about how for wages to ever go up even in the crappiest, hardest jobs, if we somehow put up a concrete wall and stopped 100.0% of all immigration somehow, it would only ever happen through collective bargaining and the formation of unions. Something I know you have loudly denounced in previous discussions. I'm curious how you think these jobs will simply rise to dignified wages on their own if you remove immigrants, something we have absolutely no reason to believe will happen.
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No, in economics, it is called the law of supply and demand. When the supply of available labor is low, employers will be forced to pay more to get the job done. They will eventually be required to recruit from the huge number of people who have given up on getting jobs.
 
Benvolio said:
No, in economics, it is called the law of supply and demand. When the supply of available labor is low, employers will be forced to pay more to get the job done. They will eventually be required to recruit from the huge number of people who have given up on getting jobs.
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And this is bunk because real wages have fallen for 30 years for about 70% of the workforce (yes including jobs way too specialized for "illegal immigrants" to be doing for minimum wage). It hasn't even kept up with inflation and cost of living increases, let alone risen because immigrants are not competing for most of these jobs.

Or in short, and Opin was oh so nicely pointing this out to you, you're stating a belief over and over again for which there is utterly no proof in the real world.

Also in your world did trickle down work?
 
xbuzzerx said:
And this is bunk because real wages have fallen for 30 years for about 70% of the workforce (yes including jobs way too specialized for "illegal immigrants" to be doing for minimum wage). It hasn't even kept up with inflation and cost of living increases, let alone risen because immigrants are not competing for most of these jobs.

Or in short, and Opin was oh so nicely pointing this out to you, you're stating a belief over and over again for which there is utterly no proof in the real world.

Also in your world did trickle down work?
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The vast oversupply of cheap labor at the bottom creates competition for the next level, then the next level etc. And the legal immigrants are not all low income worker. Some are educated and function at high levels and have the benefit of affirmative action and anti discrimination. Meanwhile, America is confronted with increased foreign competition, while technology enables employers to escape some of the US burdens placed on employers.
 
Benvolio said:
The vast oversupply of cheap labor at the bottom creates competition for the next level, then the next level etc. And the legal immigrants are not all low income worker. Some are educated and function at high levels and have the benefit of affirmative action and anti discrimination. Meanwhile, America is confronted with increased foreign competition, while technology enables employers to escape some of the US burdens placed on employers.
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No it doesn't.

It doesn't matter how many people are available to pick fruit. That doesn't make any more people qualified for nursing or physical therapy jobs tomorrow. And those wages have fallen too in real terms.

The onrush of technology largely explains the gradual development of a "two-tier labor market" in which those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits. Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households. Since 1996, dividends and capital gains have grown faster than wages or any other category of after-tax income.
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From the CIA World Factbook

Source Link: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
 
Not all immigrants pick fruit. They do many kinds of work, specially construction. When was the last time you rode in a taxi not driven by an immigrant? If an American con no longer make a living driving a taxi, he competes for a higher paying job. Not nursing, perhaps but truck driving, etc.
 
Benvolio said:
Not all immigrants pick fruit. They do many kinds of work, specially construction. When was the last time you rode in a taxi not driven by an immigrant? If an American con no longer make a living driving a taxi, he competes for a higher paying job. Not nursing, perhaps but truck driving, etc.
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So Benvolio tell me, who has a vested interest in keeping wages low?

Could it be the party dedicated to trickle down economics and unionbusting? Or am I just thinking way too literally?
 
Benvolio said:
Not all immigrants pick fruit
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Agreed. They pick vegetables - like tomatoes. Wait, are tomatoes vegetables? I think they are a fruit in the berry family. The lovely and talented consort of the late Sir Ronald of Reagan said that ketchup was a vegetable... But how can a vegetable product be made from a fruit? :confused:

Meanwhile, back to the topic. I met an immigrant who was an M.D. His specialty was ear, nose and throat. He took this position because U.S. doctors want to be eye specialists only. That sounds familiar: immigrants taking jobs that Americans won't do. Whaddaya know! :bartshock
 
xbuzzerx said:
Yup.

At the height of the Irish/Italian immigration period, there were more foreign-born people in the U.S. as a percentage of the population than today. There is no 'invasion.' Anymore than there's an 'invasion' of the UK by Muslims or Asians or any of the rest of this alarmist, nativist, reactionary rhetoric that's literally been around for millenia.

In college I had a professor put a transparency up on the screen as we came in. It was a quote talking about how "we're being invaded by hordes of immigrants who have totally different language and customs, do not adopt ours, harm our civilization and are nothing at all like the previous immigrants who worked hard and contributed." The professor asked everyone to guess what the quote was talking about, and everyone, naturally, thought it was about hispanic immigration.

She revealed the rest of the transparency and it was a Roman Emperor talking about Britons.

None of this shit is anything new.
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The same complaint was raised in the Roman Senate after Julius Caesar conquered Gaul.
 
Benvolio said:
They do get welfare, including food stamps, health service at emergency rooms etc. That and the vote is what Obama's "reform" is all about. Rush illegals to citizenship and allow/encourage more to come.
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I took a guy to the human services office the other day to get food stamps. Guess what he had to provide?


Sorry, you missed it: they required proof of citizenship.
 
Kulindahr said:
THe culture which made us a great nation was one where welcoming newcomers was an integral part of the understanding of liberty.
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Perhaps, but that was the old assimilationist, melting pot culture, which is being replaced with diverse, divisive, multicultural America. It will not work as well.
 
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