Vannie
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Anthony Bourdain found dead
- Thread starter Vannie
- Start date
bankside
JUB 10k Club
Re: Anthony Bourdain dead.
Wisdom.
In fact we might note that some people excel in one field at the expense of a more well-rounded, perhaps more resilient, life. It wouldn't hurt to throw some compassion their way either as we remember they are human.
Wisdom.
In fact we might note that some people excel in one field at the expense of a more well-rounded, perhaps more resilient, life. It wouldn't hurt to throw some compassion their way either as we remember they are human.
Not to derail but does anybody else notice all that junk in Obama's trunk?
Just another reason I miss Obama.
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TickTockMan
"Repent, Harlequin!"
Re: Anthony Bourdain dead.
Thanks. After I asked I thought it was another guy.
Thanks. After I asked I thought it was another guy.
nycguydowntown
JUB Addict
it also should be pointed out he was a strong supporter of the gay community---a gay celebrity chef --forgot his name---but in tears he said how Bourdain would show up at his gay fund raisers and was a great guy and good friend of the gays
mcbrion
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Re: Anthony Bourdain dead.
Agreed. People VERY frequently compensate for a weakness in one area of life by turning away from what they perceive as "weakness," and turn to something that they can throw all their energy into - and become a success at that. Then, later in Life, the demons - which never went away, but are lurking - come out full force at a time when they are vulnerable, and since they've been fending off looking at themselves deeply for 30, 40, 50 years, they have no psychic defenses with which to cope. And it does them in. And usually that weakness is in the area of emotional failures such as poor relationship history, or inability to sustain an intimate relationships. So they turn away from that and "run into their strengths" which are usually outside of "The Self": workaholics, driven to succeed, becoming an authority on a subject. But they WILL turn away from their emotions - which they are loathe to acknowledge is an area of weakness - and therefore are defenseless at coping with matters of the heart/soul. They are the proverbial "97 pound weakling" in those areas - and they secretly hate themselves for it.
I was - years ago - the night working agent at San Francisco Suicide Prevention, where I worked for 10 years. Nighttime was a particularly bad time for people who are thinking of suicide: it is dark outside and -literally speaking - the world is devoid any light or beauty (bright colors and the like) for them to appreciate the beauty of everything.
Also, when someone is at that point, what they are feeling like is that they've been buried in a hole 100 feet deep and all light has been cut off - and the worst part is that they do not believe they will EVER see daylight again. So, what's left for them? Eternal night? Who would want a world of eternal darkness? And although it's a delusion, the delusion is particularly strong at night, but of course, people do it in the daytime. Men - for the most part- either widowed, divorced or alone - use guns and other violent methods. Women are more likely to use pills. So, Whitney Houston (hers was accidental, I believe) was using alcohol, pills. Robin Williams? Hung himself. Marilyn Monroe? Pills. Vince Foster (Bill and Hilary's friend)? A gun.
It is not so hard to see who is prone to suicide as people believe. People who shoot others at college are frequently described as "very quiet," "Kept to themselves," "extremely quiet and polite." That translates as: I'm holding back my natural "outward" energy and pushing it back into me. It's like a Jack-In-The-Box: you wind it and wind it and you can tell the spring inside is compressing itself because you can FEEL the resistance to your tightening it, because it's harder to turn the handle on the outside of the box. And all of a sudden: it explodes outward, and you never know when that last turn of the handle is going to be. Bourdain reached that point. Someone already made a statement that he'd been "dark for the past few days," but they didn't look at it closely, as people tend not to do.
People are generally not good at sensing the despair of others, especially in the patriarchal societies, which value "Success" and "Achievement." Those societies are very poorly prepared for emotional crises. The Army's suicide rate of returning vets from Afghanistan - about 4 years ago - has tripled. And men between 25-44 right now, in the present, are killing themselves at record rates.
There is a acronym called "PLAIDPALS." It can help you determine if someone is at risk for suicide. For example the first "P" means: do they have a plan? L= is it lethal? A = availability (the means to do it) and so forth. Just put it in google. Better still:
https://ucc.nd.edu/self-help/depres...uicidal-crisis/assessing-the-risk-of-suicide/
Bourdain had - from what others have said - a history of several indicators for suicide. Not that everyone with these indicators will do it, but...
Agreed. People VERY frequently compensate for a weakness in one area of life by turning away from what they perceive as "weakness," and turn to something that they can throw all their energy into - and become a success at that. Then, later in Life, the demons - which never went away, but are lurking - come out full force at a time when they are vulnerable, and since they've been fending off looking at themselves deeply for 30, 40, 50 years, they have no psychic defenses with which to cope. And it does them in. And usually that weakness is in the area of emotional failures such as poor relationship history, or inability to sustain an intimate relationships. So they turn away from that and "run into their strengths" which are usually outside of "The Self": workaholics, driven to succeed, becoming an authority on a subject. But they WILL turn away from their emotions - which they are loathe to acknowledge is an area of weakness - and therefore are defenseless at coping with matters of the heart/soul. They are the proverbial "97 pound weakling" in those areas - and they secretly hate themselves for it.
I was - years ago - the night working agent at San Francisco Suicide Prevention, where I worked for 10 years. Nighttime was a particularly bad time for people who are thinking of suicide: it is dark outside and -literally speaking - the world is devoid any light or beauty (bright colors and the like) for them to appreciate the beauty of everything.
Also, when someone is at that point, what they are feeling like is that they've been buried in a hole 100 feet deep and all light has been cut off - and the worst part is that they do not believe they will EVER see daylight again. So, what's left for them? Eternal night? Who would want a world of eternal darkness? And although it's a delusion, the delusion is particularly strong at night, but of course, people do it in the daytime. Men - for the most part- either widowed, divorced or alone - use guns and other violent methods. Women are more likely to use pills. So, Whitney Houston (hers was accidental, I believe) was using alcohol, pills. Robin Williams? Hung himself. Marilyn Monroe? Pills. Vince Foster (Bill and Hilary's friend)? A gun.
It is not so hard to see who is prone to suicide as people believe. People who shoot others at college are frequently described as "very quiet," "Kept to themselves," "extremely quiet and polite." That translates as: I'm holding back my natural "outward" energy and pushing it back into me. It's like a Jack-In-The-Box: you wind it and wind it and you can tell the spring inside is compressing itself because you can FEEL the resistance to your tightening it, because it's harder to turn the handle on the outside of the box. And all of a sudden: it explodes outward, and you never know when that last turn of the handle is going to be. Bourdain reached that point. Someone already made a statement that he'd been "dark for the past few days," but they didn't look at it closely, as people tend not to do.
People are generally not good at sensing the despair of others, especially in the patriarchal societies, which value "Success" and "Achievement." Those societies are very poorly prepared for emotional crises. The Army's suicide rate of returning vets from Afghanistan - about 4 years ago - has tripled. And men between 25-44 right now, in the present, are killing themselves at record rates.
There is a acronym called "PLAIDPALS." It can help you determine if someone is at risk for suicide. For example the first "P" means: do they have a plan? L= is it lethal? A = availability (the means to do it) and so forth. Just put it in google. Better still:
https://ucc.nd.edu/self-help/depres...uicidal-crisis/assessing-the-risk-of-suicide/
Bourdain had - from what others have said - a history of several indicators for suicide. Not that everyone with these indicators will do it, but...
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I must look for P. L. A. I. D. P. A. L. S. around me and on JUB.
Latimer
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One evening a few weeks ago he sat down at a table an easy stone's throw--actually more like a toss--away from mine on the dining terrace of Il Salviatino in the hills above Florence. I had never seen any of his television shows, nor had I read any of his books, but I had heard a few of the Kitchen Confidential revelations that first brought him fame, and he was enough of a celebrity that I recognized him. I was surprised to see him there, as the hotel is very alta borghesia, hardly the sort of place I would have expected to find him given his reputation. Besides, Florence mid-May is about as unhip as a place could be--shouldn't he have sought out the least accessible Aeolian island? He was dressed completely in black--black jeans, shirt, jacket--and I thought, of course he's dressed in black, and, with no evidence at all, he must always dress in black, how else would he dress with his hip, ironic, bad-boy image? A few moments passed and he was joined incongruously by a handsome American (I assumed) couple, early forties, well-dressed in the manner of a Polo ad, earnest, affable and established. Their table was close enough to mine that I caught bits of conversation, and I came to understand that the married couple were in Italy on a family holiday, and that Bourdain had joined them to discuss business with the husband. I heard talk of programming and contracts. Bourdain spoke English to the waiters, the couple halting Italian.
The next morning I saw him again at breakfast, again on the terrace. Il Salviatino is positioned low enough in the hills of Fiesole that one doesn't look down to Florence, but rather across at eye-level to the Duomo and the other great architectural monuments of the city. It's a memorable view. Incantevole. Many of us would be happy to gaze out at the view for hours. Bourdain seemed not to notice it at all, and spent all of his time on his smart phone.
Later, riding into the city on the hotel shuttle, I exchanged pleasantries with the couple I had seen him with the night before, who were off with their children for a day visiting the great sites. They weren't American after all: the couple and their children spoke a mélange of German, French and English (to me). I assumed they were Swiss, or perhaps the wife was French and the husband German, as she had initially spoken to me in French. When I read today that Bourdain had died near Strasbourg I thought, that fits, they must have been from Alsace.
The next morning I saw him again at breakfast, again on the terrace. Il Salviatino is positioned low enough in the hills of Fiesole that one doesn't look down to Florence, but rather across at eye-level to the Duomo and the other great architectural monuments of the city. It's a memorable view. Incantevole. Many of us would be happy to gaze out at the view for hours. Bourdain seemed not to notice it at all, and spent all of his time on his smart phone.
Later, riding into the city on the hotel shuttle, I exchanged pleasantries with the couple I had seen him with the night before, who were off with their children for a day visiting the great sites. They weren't American after all: the couple and their children spoke a mélange of German, French and English (to me). I assumed they were Swiss, or perhaps the wife was French and the husband German, as she had initially spoken to me in French. When I read today that Bourdain had died near Strasbourg I thought, that fits, they must have been from Alsace.
mcbrion
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Re: Anthony Bourdain dead.
Our "demons" are formed within the first 3 years of life. Maybe 4. 50% of who you are going to be is formed by age 6. So, as Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young sang 48 years ago, "Teach your children well..." Whatever your parents did those first 3 years? You IMPRINTED them on your neurons (and your heart). So, if you're angry, cold and lack sympathy for others, it'll be a lifelong struggle. I've said for many years that everyone should have 2 years of therapy from the time they're 12 years old, just as a matter of course. Once you learn something about yourself, you can never un-learn it. And even if you don't make use of that knowledge, it's still in your mind. Easier to fight demons before the age of 30 than after. The fact that 30 coincides with your first Saturn Return is interesting both in psychology and astrology, and is a goalpost for who you will morph into after 30. (It's also interesting that gay culture equates being over 30 with being "old." Wonder where they got that from.)
In any case, not only are suicides up, but so are killings of people born after 1984 and before 1998 (that's the group that goes to school and shoots up their classmates). So, there are the suicides and then there are the school shootings/murders.
Yes, the US is rapidly becoming a mentally ill society. One has only to read forum boards to see how harshly people speak to each other to realize that there are quite a few angry people in the world. I still read comments from the San Francisco Chronicle after a story about someone being evicted, and the meanness and snarly, nasty responses tell me that one of the (formerly) great cities of the US is no longer an island of civility.
Our "demons" are formed within the first 3 years of life. Maybe 4. 50% of who you are going to be is formed by age 6. So, as Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young sang 48 years ago, "Teach your children well..." Whatever your parents did those first 3 years? You IMPRINTED them on your neurons (and your heart). So, if you're angry, cold and lack sympathy for others, it'll be a lifelong struggle. I've said for many years that everyone should have 2 years of therapy from the time they're 12 years old, just as a matter of course. Once you learn something about yourself, you can never un-learn it. And even if you don't make use of that knowledge, it's still in your mind. Easier to fight demons before the age of 30 than after. The fact that 30 coincides with your first Saturn Return is interesting both in psychology and astrology, and is a goalpost for who you will morph into after 30. (It's also interesting that gay culture equates being over 30 with being "old." Wonder where they got that from.)
In any case, not only are suicides up, but so are killings of people born after 1984 and before 1998 (that's the group that goes to school and shoots up their classmates). So, there are the suicides and then there are the school shootings/murders.
Yes, the US is rapidly becoming a mentally ill society. One has only to read forum boards to see how harshly people speak to each other to realize that there are quite a few angry people in the world. I still read comments from the San Francisco Chronicle after a story about someone being evicted, and the meanness and snarly, nasty responses tell me that one of the (formerly) great cities of the US is no longer an island of civility.
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Re: Anthony Bourdain dead.
I was VERY surprised about this. The inner turmoil, which NotHardUp1 was able to notice, wasn't anything I was ever able to detect at all. I always saw him as an exuberant guy with an unbridled zest for life, maybe at the worst a hint of moodiness on rare occasions.
Not mentioned here (I don't think??) was that his show was called PARTS UNKNOWN, and is among the "off-hours" shows that can run on CNN.
There are also numerous stories about humble and well-adjusted people who won the Lottery big time (i. e. millions of dollars), and suddenly went off the deep end.
I think that becoming rich SUDDENLY (which did sort of happen with Anthony) is much harder to adjust to, than becoming rich slowly but steadily.
I've said that if suddenly Bill Gates up't-an'-gave me three billion dollars, I'd STILL go to the cinema, go out for walks, eat at the Thai place around the corner, and STAY in the place that I'm in right now...I don't just mean Chicago, but even the unit I currently live in. I can't imagine I'd rethink my friends, not even the homeless guy I know in Miami. (OK, I'd see to it that he didn't stay homeless...) I wouldn't suddenly have a hankering to run around with the golf, jet-setter, snowbirds-with-seven-houses-and-mansions, Michelin Three-Star crowds. Why change friends when you already have wonderful ones?
I was VERY surprised about this. The inner turmoil, which NotHardUp1 was able to notice, wasn't anything I was ever able to detect at all. I always saw him as an exuberant guy with an unbridled zest for life, maybe at the worst a hint of moodiness on rare occasions.
Yes, he did that...though Vannie came up with apparently a totally valid alternative answer - I'm not familiar with the guy Vannie mentioned, not at all.
Not mentioned here (I don't think??) was that his show was called PARTS UNKNOWN, and is among the "off-hours" shows that can run on CNN.
Such a good answer. When one is famous, privacy is lost. They can't do something as innocuous as going to the convenience store to buy milk (and yes, some uber-rich people, who have their help/servants do these errands, probably REALLY WISH they could do that in anonymity, and get the fresh air...and, also yes, THEY can run out of milk just as we can).
There are also numerous stories about humble and well-adjusted people who won the Lottery big time (i. e. millions of dollars), and suddenly went off the deep end.
I think that becoming rich SUDDENLY (which did sort of happen with Anthony) is much harder to adjust to, than becoming rich slowly but steadily.
I've said that if suddenly Bill Gates up't-an'-gave me three billion dollars, I'd STILL go to the cinema, go out for walks, eat at the Thai place around the corner, and STAY in the place that I'm in right now...I don't just mean Chicago, but even the unit I currently live in. I can't imagine I'd rethink my friends, not even the homeless guy I know in Miami. (OK, I'd see to it that he didn't stay homeless...) I wouldn't suddenly have a hankering to run around with the golf, jet-setter, snowbirds-with-seven-houses-and-mansions, Michelin Three-Star crowds. Why change friends when you already have wonderful ones?
LilBit
The bit(ch) is back!
Re: Anthony Bourdain dead.
I would add to this that even the most expensive mental health treatment isn't a magic pill. Therapy can take a long time to have a significant impact on a person's well-being, and sometimes it takes a while just to find the right therapist or the right approach. It can also take a long time (years, even) to find the most effective medication, and sometimes medication just stops working. And on top of that, suicidal ideation is actually a fairly common side effect of many antidepressants.
Many people, consciously or unconsciously, treat mental illness as a moral failing or as a disease that people have some sort of control over, but it is an illness, and wealth, intelligence, and power don't protect people from mental illness any more than they protect people from cancer or heart disease.
I would add to this that even the most expensive mental health treatment isn't a magic pill. Therapy can take a long time to have a significant impact on a person's well-being, and sometimes it takes a while just to find the right therapist or the right approach. It can also take a long time (years, even) to find the most effective medication, and sometimes medication just stops working. And on top of that, suicidal ideation is actually a fairly common side effect of many antidepressants.
Many people, consciously or unconsciously, treat mental illness as a moral failing or as a disease that people have some sort of control over, but it is an illness, and wealth, intelligence, and power don't protect people from mental illness any more than they protect people from cancer or heart disease.
NotHardUp1
What? Me? Really?
Re: Anthony Bourdain dead.
NPR ran a story this past week covering the special election for mayor, and the role homelessness has played in dominating the debates and campaigns. The article isn't very good journalism, but here is it for reference: https://www.npr.org/2018/06/04/6167...ss-is-a-big-issue-in-mayoral-special-election
Many would argue that the city is struggling with bad parenting, or what equates to bad public policy regarding the homeless. What was seen for decades as the most tolerant and accepting city in the nation has by effect become a Mecca for the homeless. Of course, there is the also the contributing factor of San Francisco "enjoying" skyrocketing housing costs, so much so that working class people have been left out of the success story, and welcomed to commute in and out of the city to live far away. No one seems to question the morality of rising home prices -- it's merely a boon to the owners and an inconvenient nightmare for anyone who is a renter or poor.
But worse, the acceptance of the drop-out lifestyle has been a problem all of its own. Even after the city spent billions on accommodating those who flocked to the city to do nothing, it has only served to make the city a growing cesspool of homeless "camps," what would have been called hobo villages before the homelessness movement took on political rights. I was there in the 80's on business, and it was bad enough then that it made a bad impression, so I can only imagine how much worse it must be today.
San Francisco appeared to be idyllic because they had managed to exclude ghettos and slums from their environs by economic barriers, and in so doing, left the very poorest nowhere to be but underfoot, which is where they are now. To make matters worse, they became enshrined in this social philosophic principle that they were somehow virtuous because they were homeless instead of there being some realism added to the mix. In the end, and it appears to be the end, that sort of king's-new-clothes approach to a deadly social ill has left a city beleaguered by its own charity and the abuse it has encouraged. After all, the pigeons just keep coming when feed is thrown out every day indiscriminately, and shit-covered statuary isn't really a park for humans any more at that point.
The mentally ill, the victims of parental and spousal abuse, should be housed on the city's dime, but housed. The rest, let them migrate to the next city that flings open its doors and asks nothing in return. There are many thousands who find that life completely acceptable and in fact choose it. They should be free to do so but the citizens of San Francisco are just as free to vote to stop encouraging the camps in their midst.
NPR ran a story this past week covering the special election for mayor, and the role homelessness has played in dominating the debates and campaigns. The article isn't very good journalism, but here is it for reference: https://www.npr.org/2018/06/04/6167...ss-is-a-big-issue-in-mayoral-special-election
Many would argue that the city is struggling with bad parenting, or what equates to bad public policy regarding the homeless. What was seen for decades as the most tolerant and accepting city in the nation has by effect become a Mecca for the homeless. Of course, there is the also the contributing factor of San Francisco "enjoying" skyrocketing housing costs, so much so that working class people have been left out of the success story, and welcomed to commute in and out of the city to live far away. No one seems to question the morality of rising home prices -- it's merely a boon to the owners and an inconvenient nightmare for anyone who is a renter or poor.
But worse, the acceptance of the drop-out lifestyle has been a problem all of its own. Even after the city spent billions on accommodating those who flocked to the city to do nothing, it has only served to make the city a growing cesspool of homeless "camps," what would have been called hobo villages before the homelessness movement took on political rights. I was there in the 80's on business, and it was bad enough then that it made a bad impression, so I can only imagine how much worse it must be today.
San Francisco appeared to be idyllic because they had managed to exclude ghettos and slums from their environs by economic barriers, and in so doing, left the very poorest nowhere to be but underfoot, which is where they are now. To make matters worse, they became enshrined in this social philosophic principle that they were somehow virtuous because they were homeless instead of there being some realism added to the mix. In the end, and it appears to be the end, that sort of king's-new-clothes approach to a deadly social ill has left a city beleaguered by its own charity and the abuse it has encouraged. After all, the pigeons just keep coming when feed is thrown out every day indiscriminately, and shit-covered statuary isn't really a park for humans any more at that point.
The mentally ill, the victims of parental and spousal abuse, should be housed on the city's dime, but housed. The rest, let them migrate to the next city that flings open its doors and asks nothing in return. There are many thousands who find that life completely acceptable and in fact choose it. They should be free to do so but the citizens of San Francisco are just as free to vote to stop encouraging the camps in their midst.
NotHardUp1
What? Me? Really?
Re: Anthony Bourdain dead.
What I noted was his seeking, but at the ends of the programs, he never seemed to find anything that grounded him, only left with existential angst. I know existential angst, as I grew up in a household suffused with it as well as a denomination that encouraged it as a mandate for life, if unspoken. Basically, if you were happy, you were guilty of not worrying appropriately.
I'm not sure that is all that true about Bourdain. He was a classically trained chef. They don't suddenly become rich as a general rule. The Wiki article pretty much paints the picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Bourdain
He was born to a somewhat wealthy family, vacationed abroad, attended Vassar, dropped out, and began a career as an executive chef after attending culinary school. He worked successfully in New York, and by his 40's became a TV personality and author. That's a pretty steady rise to success, and really without any poor phase per se. Sadly, at 61, he became part of a known demographic in America of successful men reaching senior years and finding themselves at a loss despite career success and wealth. These men are a major factor in the suicide statistics.
When I first learned of the trend, some decades ago, there was some conjecture that they had built careers to the detriment of personal development, particularly in relationships, and in so doing, left themselves little in the way of support community for the backwaters of life, i.e., old age.
Of course, all of that is generalization, as we have no idea whether Bordain was jilted by a lover, confronted with cancer, or just overwhelmed with irrational or rational despair of life. In any event, it is the world's loss, as he did have much to offer the world, and worked to encourage others to experience it. As I've said, his depression was a bit contagious for me, so I avoided him, but that's not to say he was without merit.
What I noted was his seeking, but at the ends of the programs, he never seemed to find anything that grounded him, only left with existential angst. I know existential angst, as I grew up in a household suffused with it as well as a denomination that encouraged it as a mandate for life, if unspoken. Basically, if you were happy, you were guilty of not worrying appropriately.
I'm not sure that is all that true about Bourdain. He was a classically trained chef. They don't suddenly become rich as a general rule. The Wiki article pretty much paints the picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Bourdain
He was born to a somewhat wealthy family, vacationed abroad, attended Vassar, dropped out, and began a career as an executive chef after attending culinary school. He worked successfully in New York, and by his 40's became a TV personality and author. That's a pretty steady rise to success, and really without any poor phase per se. Sadly, at 61, he became part of a known demographic in America of successful men reaching senior years and finding themselves at a loss despite career success and wealth. These men are a major factor in the suicide statistics.
When I first learned of the trend, some decades ago, there was some conjecture that they had built careers to the detriment of personal development, particularly in relationships, and in so doing, left themselves little in the way of support community for the backwaters of life, i.e., old age.
Of course, all of that is generalization, as we have no idea whether Bordain was jilted by a lover, confronted with cancer, or just overwhelmed with irrational or rational despair of life. In any event, it is the world's loss, as he did have much to offer the world, and worked to encourage others to experience it. As I've said, his depression was a bit contagious for me, so I avoided him, but that's not to say he was without merit.
Vannie
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Re: Anthony Bourdain dead.
Andrew Zimmern was one of Anthony Bourdains best friends and host of Bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmern. He did a lengthy interview with Chris Cuomo last night on CNN.His segment starts at 2:50 and is about 15 minutes or so.Worth a watch.
Andrew Zimmern was one of Anthony Bourdains best friends and host of Bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmern. He did a lengthy interview with Chris Cuomo last night on CNN.His segment starts at 2:50 and is about 15 minutes or so.Worth a watch.
fabulouslyghetto
Kween of Hot Topics
This thread is very informative in more ways than one
Harke the Boeotarch
Dreams Wash Away
