Argument in cinema results in gunshot death

[bankside]

Whilst I appreciate that gun ownership rates in the United States have declined in recent decades; America still has the highest gun-related homicide rate of any developed country in the world. Also, I cannot understand why there is such a great deal of opposition to President Obama's proposal to reintroduce the ban on military-style assault weapons, after all, those types of weapons are not suitable for everyday citizens, as witnessed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting, where many innocent people lost their lives as a result of someone, who was clearly deranged, having access to semi-automatic weapons.

If I can't have my arsenal, it's because we're LIVING UNDER ABSOLUTE TYRANNY PEOPLE. No matter that I can write political diatribes, or run in any election, or sue an elected official, or freely go door to door making my case, or hold a protest rally, or publish my own newspaper or web site without government interference. If I can't have my guns, it's because we're LIVING UNDER ABSOLUTE TYRANNY.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Whilst I appreciate that gun ownership rates in the United States have declined in recent decades; America still has the highest gun-related homicide rate of any developed country in the world. Also, I cannot understand why there is such a great deal of opposition to President Obama's proposal to reintroduce the ban on military-style assault weapons, after all, those types of weapons are not suitable for everyday citizens, as witnessed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting, where many innocent people lost their lives as a result of someone, who was clearly deranged, having access to semi-automatic weapons.

Because it is 'Murica and we only care about our own selfish needs. Also the opposition come from people who just hate Obama and will disagree with anything he says or does because he is Obama.

 

[bankside]

* A goodly number of Americans have a heavy mistrust of their government (even if we'll re-elect them every two years).

That's not unique to the States though. Lots of other countries have governments that don't measure up to the standards of trustworthiness expected by the voters. Or they start out okay but then fuck up. Then we vote for a government with more integrity.. We don't think "Gee, we should just ignore that inner voice and continue to put up with them, because we can always shoot them as a back-up plan."

Why do americans think shooting their government is a better option than replacing it.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Whilst I appreciate that gun ownership rates in the United States have declined in recent decades; America still has the highest gun-related homicide rate of any developed country in the world. Also, I cannot understand why there is such a great deal of opposition to President Obama's proposal to reintroduce the ban on military-style assault weapons, after all, those types of weapons are not suitable for everyday citizens, as witnessed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting, where many innocent people lost their lives as a result of someone, who was clearly deranged, having access to semi-automatic weapons.

The NRA is a really powerful lobby and it opposes any legislation of any kind, no matter what it is, on the slippery slope that all restrictions are the first step towards government confiscation. And there are many voters who will kneejerk to react that way politically even against politicians trying to get armor-piercing copkiller bullets or similar taken out of store shelves. Even if you get past the first argument that no, not "all legislation" is illicitly an attempt to give all your guns to Rosie O'Donnell, you get the backup argument: "laws and bans will do no good because then only the criminals will have whatever you banned."

Put all of that within the context of this story, where the shooter was presumably a "law-abiding" citizen prior to this incident, and was even an ex-cop on top of that: not a criminal, not a delinquent, not an emotionally disturbed teenager. What's really bad about these laws like Florida's is that even if people are doing it completely outside the bounds of what the law intended to cover, laws like Stand Your Ground are creating this environment in which people feel emboldened and justified in resorting to gun use to solve fights or public disagreements. All of these stories in Florida, even though defenders of the law will say that the law didn't defend any of these incidents you've heard over the last year or two, have at their core I believe a mindset that one is not obligated to "walk away" from a fight, just have your gun on you and when you feel threatened, you are justified in getting it out and shooting.

 

[bankside]

Why not hold the electorate accountable. Powerful lobby or undemanding electorate?

 

[xbuzzerx]

Why not hold the electorate accountable. Powerful lobby or undemanding electorate?

The gun ownership mentality in the U.S. is extremely analagous to religious politics. Facts don't change people's mind on it, and, like religion, it's so steeped in people's vague perception of the traditional fabric of America. It's no easier to snap our fingers on the gun issue than it is to push through gay marriage overnight, no matter how much you think either should be easy efforts.

 

[bankside]

The gun ownership mentality in the U.S. is extremely analagous to religious politics. Facts don't change people's mind on it, and, like religion, it's so steeped in people's vague perception of the traditional fabric of America. It's no easier to snap our fingers on the gun issue than it is to push through gay marriage overnight, no matter how much you think either should be easy efforts.

Actually I think the US is making great progress on equal marriage and it's unfolding there like it has in other successful countries.

As far as guns, I see your point about the quasi-religious nature of it, but eventually the Enlightenment made its mark.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Actually I think the US is making great progress on equal marriage and it's unfolding there like it has in other successful countries.

It is now. Even just 10 years ago most people still regarded it as a pipe dream for further off in the future than it's actually started to happen.

As far as guns, I see your point about the quasi-religious nature of it, but eventually the Enlightenment made its mark.

There is a second tier even once you get past the gun nuts--- gun culture has definitely normalized itself. Look how many people in this thread didn't really leap to consider a guy bringing a gun in as the main problem over somebody being rude.

 

[The Fly]

The shooter will get off. Self defence.

There was a physical confrontation between a 43 year old and a 71 year old. Point for the old guy

71 year old is a retired cop, 43 year old obnoxious jerk. Point for the old guy.

Concealed weapon in a movie theatre vs cellphone. Cellphones, worthless in a gun fight. Point for the old guy.

Florida population from which the jury will be chosen, many old people. Point for the old guy.

The minuet the 43 year old engaged in physical contact, or appeared likely too, with the 71 year old, the 43 year old became the aggressor. Self defence. Point for the old guy.

The old guy will either be acquitted on the grounds of self defence or be found guilty of a lesser charge, resulting in nothing more than house arrest/probation and the loss of his conceal carry permit.

Did the guy deserve to die....no, but he certainly contributed to his own demise.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Did the guy deserve to die....no, but he certainly contributed to his own demise.

No he didn't. I'd assume he wouldn't have had an altercation if he knew the ex-cop had the gun. The demise of the guy is in full responsibility of the man with the gun.

 

[pat grimshaw]

Everyone in the cinema paid money to join in their communal experience to watch and hear men shoot each other. And the movie they were watching has a choir singing on the soundtrack as the men men shoot each other.



It makes sense that men who pay money to join other men to share their communal experience watching and hearing men shooting each other are trigger-happy.

 

[Kahaih]

For the sake of those thickheads that don't seem to get the fact that there have always been pistol-carrying Americans, maybe it's time to change that old 'mama always told me' saying.

Instead of 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' it should be "Do unto others as though they're packin' heat".

 

[xbuzzerx]

For the sake of those thickheads that don't seem to get the fact that there have always been pistol-carrying Americans, maybe it's time to change that old 'mama always told me' saying.

So social norms should be dictated now by the presumption that someone is carrying a concealed firearm and is going to shoot you, AND that it would be your fault?

Is that basically what you're saying?

 

[Kahaih]

So social norms should be dictated now by the presumption that someone is carrying a concealed firearm and is going to shoot you, AND that it would be your fault?

Is that basically what you're saying?

Are you slow? You should know by now that I don't play your stupid games. Save it for the CE&P playground.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Are you slow? You should know by now that I don't play your stupid games. Save it for the CE&P playground.

Make your point or don't. You're just being a passive aggressive snit. As usual.

 

[pat grimshaw]

... You should know by now that I don't play your stupid games. Save it for the CE&P playground.

I have to agree.

Please don't take offence Buzzer, you do have quite a few admirable qualities but you also seem to want everyone to debate your way. You have big jaws in his avatar and you expect everybody to line up and enter your jaws the way you want.

You somehow seem unable to realise that different cultures across the planet might think differently to your own PC college Peer group.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I have to agree.

Please don't take offence Buzzer, you do have quite a few admirable qualities but you also seem to want everyone to debate your way. You have big jaws in his avatar and you expect everybody to line up and enter your jaws the way you want.

You somehow seem unable to realise that different cultures across the planet might think differently to your own PC college Peer group.

Bitchy snipes aren't valid discussion points on any topic really.

 

[pat grimshaw]

…snipes...

I don't do verbose essays or treatises. Besides intelligent people can catch allusions without all the rant.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I don't do verbose essays or treatises. Besides intelligent people can catch allusions without all the rant.

You're an entirely different can of worms altogether. You make intentionally vague innuendo or tremendous leaps of logic in between one statement and the next, so that not only can people only guess at what you're actually trying to say, but you have wiggle room to deny any conclusion anyone ever makes about what you're implying. Nor will you ever respond to direct questions asking you what you are actually saying.

"Style of discussion" is a different matter from "intentionally making meaningful discussion impossible."

 

[pat grimshaw]

I engage in dialogues. I think you and that old Canadian just do monologues/ speeches/ sermons/ harangues/ rants/ dummy spits/ do-as-I-say-not-as-I do.