Attention Argument over loud music leads to the fatal shooting of a Florida teen

[xbuzzerx]

Yes it is a ridiculous law.
But belabouring and inventing facts about this particular incident helps no one.

No one invented anything other than from the perspective of people who believe it's completely ordinary to go up to unarmed teenagers and shoot them for no reason we can possibly fathom.

i.e. you and Hard-up.

 

[pat grimshaw]

^
Beachguy invented the 'fact' that people playing their music loud for two minutes was cause for shooting them in post #39

 

[xbuzzerx]

^
Beachguy invented the 'fact' that people playing their music loud for two minutes was cause for shooting them in post #39

This is your entire problem with the discussion?

Really you're just making it look more like what I already suspect which is that you'll grasp any possible nitpick as an excuse to absolve this guy of what the picture makes look most obvious.

 

[pat grimshaw]

This is your entire problem with the discussion?...

I believe in discussions using factual evidence but your comments back in #78 make me think you want free-wheeling, fast and loose, 'who shot John', assumptions, presumptions and prejudging.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I believe in discussions using factual evidence but your comments back in #78 make me think you want free-wheeling, fast and loose, 'who shot John', assumptions, presumptions and prejudging.

I'm sorry what details are exactly in dispute here?

There is nothing "free and loose" with the events of what happened here that would change the picture from "this guy flew off a handle and shot unarmed black kids who never even stepped out of their vehicle" to "oh maybe he was just defending himself."

 

[xbuzzerx]

It is the same topic: race and killings, and how they are related.

I've worked for black candidates to be elected. I have opposed racist individuals in my community. The imputation that anyone who doesn't merrily march along with every race thread on JUB is secretly a Klansman is lame.

Thankfully, that isn't what's happened nor since being active on the forums have I seen this happen. I actually see the direct opposite-- you seemingly gummy worming into various shapes to insist that we can't possibly conclude race played a role here or even looked like it did-- even though clearly it's one of the first things that enters people's minds when they hear about this case.

I mean next up did race play no role in the Trayvon case? I don't hear about a lot of white teenagers being stalked by neighborhood watchmen cowboys on their way home from 7-11 and then being shot to death because they were "threatening" with their skittles, but hey if those stories are out there, please bring them up.

The thread was and is an alarm about a black young man being slain as a racist white-on-black act. At every point I've agreed that the murder is reprehensible and not defensible. That said, it doesn't remove the pattern of these threads on JUB, which is the ongoing implication that race violence is somehow rampant in the U.S. and all the more in some states.

Me saying that the law in Florida is terrible would be the same whether the shooter had been purple and the kids had been fuschia. You would not catch me any less likely to say this is a stupid law that encourages cowboy vigilantism. In fact that's exactly how I've described the problem with this law multiple times, I haven't said it's a "race law telling whites to kill people", though clearly it is encouraging a few white people to take their perceptions of minorities being disruptive and dangerous and go out and handle that problem with a gun.

My point was and is that MANY MORE black men are killed by their own social and racial peers

Yes, you've made that point multiple times. So Hard-up let me ask you. If an American is decapitated overseas by a terrorist, how come people have any reaction to it at all? I mean look how many Americans die in car crashes everyday. Where's the outrage over that? We shouldn't have a war on terrorism. We should have a war on automobiles!

^That's your logic.

 

[pat grimshaw]

…^That's your logic.

Reductio ad absurdum (from the Latin: "reduction to absurdity") is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial… or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Reductio ad absurdum (from the Latin: "reduction to absurdity") is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial… or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.

His argument is equatum apple orangio.

Wingardium whitewashiosa!

 

[pat grimshaw]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

 

[xbuzzerx]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

And? What is that supposed to prove? It's easy to post a link... even easier not giving an argument regarding the topic.

Yeah I'm just going to ignore these little spout-offs with a link and no actual reasoning from now on because it's clear he is unwilling or incapable of actually articulating his viewpoint. It's clear what the viewpoint is but if he can't bother to post more than one line about it I guess that tells us all we need to know about its veracity.

And good post Tombastep. I agree totally that the "omg u ppl just make everything race all the time" blows up the topic more than any other factor. If those people really can't stand the discussion just don't enter it.

 

[pat grimshaw]

And? What is that supposed to prove? It's easy to post a link... even easier not giving an argument regarding the topic.

Oh Giancarlo, I see you have been muzzled for a week.

I'm not a Pit-bull who enjoys the testosterone rush of having aggressive, loud, vicious arguments for the sake of having aggressive, loud, vicious arguments. And I'm not a pitbull who bites without thinking... but I'm assuming that your brain didn't even register those graphs in the link in the three minutes between posts on the first of December before your brain told you to bite again.

I think those statistics are more eloquent than all your frenzied, angry biting and frothing at the mouth.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Oh Giancarlo, I see you have been muzzled for a week.

I'm not a Pit-bull who enjoys the testosterone rush of having aggressive, loud, vicious arguments for the sake of having aggressive, loud, vicious arguments. And I'm not a pitbull who bites without thinking... but I'm assuming that your brain didn't even register those graphs in the link in the three minutes between posts on the first of December before your brain told you to bite again.

I think those statistics are more eloquent than all your frenzied, angry biting and frothing at the mouth.

Of course they're completely off topic.

Who cares about honor killings, look at this chart of traffic deaths.

 

[pat grimshaw]

^ Hmm. . . a two minute delay.

You didn't even see the statistics. I'm now convinced YOU with your biting avatar and location are The New Giancarlo.

 

[xbuzzerx]

^ Hmm. . . a two minute delay.

You didn't even see the statistics. I'm now convinced YOU with your biting avatar and location are The New Giancarlo.

K. Think whatever you like, it's not like your reasoning has taken you very far in this topic.

 

[pat grimshaw]

^ he'll back soon, biting and snapping and frothing at the mouth.

 

[pat grimshaw]

I hope Dunn is prosecuted and the "Stand-your-ground Defence" is repealed. And I wish there was more evidence and less hysteria. I reckon if tasers can be fitted with cameras then guns should be too!

BTW: It seems ‘Stand Your Ground’ Defense Rejected in this case
http://www.afro.com/sections/news/afro_briefs/story.htm?storyid=76967