Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

[T-Rexx]

And no stay either. I won't be at all surprised if one is refused by the state supreme court.

State AG Dustin McDaniel announced last night that he will file the appeal to the AK supreme court on Monday.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/arkansas-plans-appeal-same-sex-marriage-ruling

 

[JackinSea]

To try and be fair to the clerks, as I understand it, technically the judge's order only applied to six counties, so the other clerks may, indeed, need clarification.

 

[T-Rexx]

Judge Piazza's opinion has a nice statement at the end, which bears repeating here.

It has been over forty years since Mildred Loving was given the right to marry the person of her choice. The hatred and fears have long since vanished and she and her husband lived full lives together; so it will be for the same-sex couples. It is time to let that beacon of freedom shine brighter on all our brothers and sisters. We will be stronger for it.

 

[chrisrobin]

...................
Amen!

 

[rareboy]

I have been waiting for Springer to weigh in on this huge step forward for his home state....

nothing???

 

[Rolyo85]

I have been waiting for Springer to weigh in on this huge step forward for his home state.... nothing???

Maybe he has nobody he wants to marry. I know it's not plausible, but stranger things and all that...

 

[frankfrank]

GREAT to see such a development in the "true South" - though Arkansas, in recent years, has not seemed to be as infected by "Tea Party Crazy" as most of the South.

They can't, unless they wanna get sued (if a stay is not granted that is).

They can if they just plain close for the day.

This whole thing, so far, has been during a weekend. Aren't most county offices closed all weekend anyway?

I have been waiting for Springer to weigh in on this huge step forward for his home state....

nothing???

I always thought he was from somewhere in southwest Missouri? Maybe around Butler or Nevada (nuh-VAY-dah) or something?

 

[Kulindahr]

All I can think of is that the AG must be covering himself in case he decides to run for another office later; however, I think he's naïve if he thinks that defending the law won't hide the fact that he's officially "against" it.

Actually he's personally for it, but officially defending the law.

The first deputy to arrive at the courthouse refused to issue licenses, citing the absence of the county clerk to give permission, and then used the lame excuse of wanting the attorney general's opinion. Note that Carroll County has two seats, and the main clerk's office is in Berryville, so the first one was obviously a lie. Anyway, I'm not surprised at all. We have seen such excuses before. Police then arrived to "disperse" the crowd. The second deputy, Jane Osborne, then arrived and happily issued licenses.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.co...ex-couples-licenses/marriage/2014/05/10/87093

Liberty magazine once had an excellent report on how police were stymied in a situation just like this, where people had gathered due to a court ruling some wanted to take advantage of. Someone in the group had printed out copies of the First Amendment with the words protecting the right to peaceably assemble highlighted, in the form of a "gathering permit". Cops conferred, and apparently decided none of them was willing to be the one named in a lawsuit....

It just reminds me that our police are sorely lacking in training essential for understanding their jobs: the rights of citizens. No officer who understands his job would ever make an attempt to "disperse" a peaceful crowd.

 

[Alnitak]

This whole thing, so far, has been during a weekend. Aren't most county offices closed all weekend anyway?

We are just speculating on what they will do.

Faulkner County has announced it will not issue licenses citing the clerk's belief that circuit judges cannot enjoin the whole state, which is not true.

I expect three things to happen, 1) some offices will gladly issue licenses, 2) some counties will cite excuses, and 3) some will just close. Now to find out in what proportions. Some counties with anti-gay clerks and attorneys will try to slyly manufacture the "confusion" in order to substantiate a stay in a sort of I-told-you-so if you will.

Of course if a stay is granted then that's that obviously.

 

[rareboy]

I always thought he was from somewhere in southwest Missouri? Maybe around Butler or Nevada (nuh-VAY-dah) or something?

You are right. I remember now that he is from mizzoorah.

don't rightly know why I thought he was from Arkanzazz.

Is there anyone on JUB from AK? It would be interesting to have their take on the reaction in the state to this crack in the Bible Belt opposition to legalizing sodomitical marriage.

 

[JackinSea]

Just a friendly reminder: AK = Alaska and AR = Arkansas.

 

[scream4ever]

Video from the Saturday confrontation:

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2014/05/11/the-sunday-night-line

I'm so glad that the day was able to end on a happy note for the couples waiting in line.

 

[Kulindahr]

Faulkner County has announced it will not issue licenses citing the clerk's belief that circuit judges cannot enjoin the whole state, which is not true.

I think that varies between states. As I understand the system in Oregon, the clerk would be correct; a circuit ruling is binding only on that circuit. An appeals court ruling, however, I think is binding on the whole state regardless of which district it came from. The basic difference is that circuit courts are trial courts, not appellate courts (though certain cases from municipal and justice courts can be appealed to a circuit, IIRC).

 

[Alnitak]

I think that varies between states. As I understand the system in Oregon, the clerk would be correct; a circuit ruling is binding only on that circuit. An appeals court ruling, however, I think is binding on the whole state regardless of which district it came from. The basic difference is that circuit courts are trial courts, not appellate courts (though certain cases from municipal and justice courts can be appealed to a circuit, IIRC).

Several counties were sued in Pulaski County Circuit Court, which has general jurisdiction. If circuit courts in Oregon have diversity jurisdiction, then they can enjoin a whole state too, or a combination of the counties. That is usually the case. Remember Walker's ruling applied to the whole state of California because he enjoined state officers, even though his jurisdiction was in northern California. Jacobson's ruling applied throughout New Jersey, and so on. District courts are the courts of limited jurisdiction in Arkansas. Because the counties are all similarly situated, i.e. refusing licenses, and because the State of Arkansas and her officers are named defendants, Piazza's ruling applies statewide.

 

[Alnitak]

Video from the Saturday confrontation:

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2014/05/11/the-sunday-night-line

I'm so glad that the day was able to end on a happy note for the couples waiting in line.

Most counties are dragging their feet hoping for a quick stay from the AR Supreme Court. I am little surprised.

The respondents have until noon tomorrow to reply to the state's request for a stay. There is no indication what the court will do.

Because of the dynamic situation, and variety of sources both reliable and unreliable, it is impossible to give an accurate run down on the counties currently issuing licenses. However, Little Rock is definitely issuing them.

 

[scream4ever]

Washington County is issuing licenses as well. Carroll County stopped earlier today due to a threat from an attorney (seriously?!). I've heard the Supreme Court in AR typically releases decisions on Thursday, but they may make an exception with this issue.

 

[Alnitak]

ThinkProgress reports on Twitter that the current issuing counties are Pulaski, Washington, Marion, and Saline, so that's four out of 75. Pathetic.

 

[scream4ever]

ThinkProgress reports on Twitter that the current issuing counties are Pulaski, Washington, Marion, and Saline, so that's four out of 75. Pathetic.

It's still better then it being just 2 as I initially thought.

Apparently in Carroll County the attorney in question claimed that a law banning same-sex marriage was still on the books, which is baseless since both the statute and constitutional bans were shot down.

In Little Rock there was only 1 protester demonstrating today (amazing how quickly things have changed since there were tons in 2004 and even 2008 with California), and a reporter was apparently removed from a courthouse for simply questioning why they weren't issuing licenses. It's truly remnicent of the civil rights struggle now!

 

[Kulindahr]

Several counties were sued in Pulaski County Circuit Court, which has general jurisdiction. If circuit courts in Oregon have diversity jurisdiction, then they can enjoin a whole state too, or a combination of the counties. That is usually the case. Remember Walker's ruling applied to the whole state of California because he enjoined state officers, even though his jurisdiction was in northern California. Jacobson's ruling applied throughout New Jersey, and so on. District courts are the courts of limited jurisdiction in Arkansas. Because the counties are all similarly situated, i.e. refusing licenses, and because the State of Arkansas and her officers are named defendants, Piazza's ruling applies statewide.

Ah -- the last especially makes sense.

 

[Kulindahr]

Most counties are dragging their feet hoping for a quick stay from the AR Supreme Court. I am little surprised.

The respondents have until noon tomorrow to reply to the state's request for a stay. There is no indication what the court will do.

Because of the dynamic situation, and variety of sources both reliable and unreliable, it is impossible to give an accurate run down on the counties currently issuing licenses. However, Little Rock is definitely issuing them.

By dragging their feet, aren't they just providing fuel for yet another suit? That seems tactically, or even strategically, foolish.