Asking the religious community for support

[fabulouslyghetto]

So I'm gonna start sending some emails out to different churches/pastors to see if I can open up some kinda dialogue. Here's a rough draft of the letter, I know you guys can help me dot the i's and cross the t's.

Being a gay men emailing a pastor is probably tricky business so I have to be on point.

Good day to you. I am reaching out to you in order to begin a dialogue with you concerning the black gay community and the church. For too long there has been no productive conversation and I would like to hopefully build a bridge with that aim in mind.

The scourge of HIV/AIDS is destroying our communities, homosexuals as young as preteen age are subject to bullying, older homosexuals face violence and discrimiation in our communities and the workplace. Many of us are left as outcasts and homeless after being rejected by even our families.

I believe it is more urgent than ever that we work from a point of commonality. A true discussion pertaining to HIV prevention, mental health and wellness are just such points that we should address together.

These times deserve and open and honest commitment as our very future depends upon a collaborative effort. I sincerely believe we have an unique opportunity which will reap benefits for our communities.

I await your reposnse and thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

I think it's important that the two communities merge because religion is one of determining factors in attitudes towards homosexuality. An ex of an ex was called a "faggot" by a pastor from the pulpit, in front of everyone on Sunday morning.

 

[TickTockMan]

Instead of an email, why not a hardcopy letter w/ a stamp on it?

He is right, it is always better with a hardcopy.

Also there are a couple of typos.

Also I would not make it personal in any way, but that is just me.



Good luck. You're going to need it.

 

[bankside]

An ex of an ex was called a "faggot" by a pastor from the pulpit, in front of everyone on Sunday morning.

If he still had people to preach to, there is something wrong with the audience. What a gong show. You don't reach out to people like that- common trash and schoolyard bullies - you put them in their place and carry on with life. Who in their right mind would attend something like that? And if his parishioners haven't got the wherewithal to figure that out then good luck to them.

Seriously, that sort of behaviour calls for walking out of the room, not becoming pen pals.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

He is right, it is always better with a hardcopy.

Girl you seen how much stamps cost?

Also there are a couple of typos.

Hence the "rough draft" designation, I knew you guys would catch anything I missed.

Also I would not make it personal in any way, but that is just me.

Well I was gonna tell them about my boyfriend having hair in strange places from his nair-abusing drag days but I guess I'll leave that part out.

Good luck. You're going to need it.

Chile who you tellin'? I wonder what kinda responses I'll get from the extremists.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

If he still had people to preach to, there is something wrong with the audience. What a gong show. You don't reach out to people like that- common trash and schoolyard bullies - you put them in their place and carry on with life.

Welcome to Christianity. That's what I think is missing, even people who don't agree with homosexuality as a lifestyle should still offer messages of acceptance instead of promoting or ignoring the hostility we face. Oddly enough I remember hearing sermons about forgiving murderers and thieves but when it comes to homosexuality it's the unpardonable sin.

Seriously, that sort of behaviour calls for walking out of the room, not becoming pen pals.

Well people change, you'll never know until you try.

 

[bankside]

Welcome to Christianity.

Thank you for inviting me in! The windows look lovely but I don't think I'll stay.

That's what I think is missing, even people who don't agree with homosexuality as a lifestyle should still offer messages of acceptance instead of promoting or ignoring the hostility we face. Oddly enough I remember hearing sermons about forgiving murderers and thieves but when it comes to homosexuality it's the unpardonable sin.

Well people change, you'll never know until you try.

It is strange that homosexuality would ever be thought of as a "pardonable sin," never mind an unpardonable one. Is church like a night of improv? Do they just make this stuff up as they go?

 

[TickTockMan]

Girl you seen how much stamps cost? .

Actually I don’t have a clue how much they cost. I bought a lot of “Forever Stamps” when they came out and I am still working on them.

Hence the "rough draft" designation, I knew you guys would catch anything I missed.

Technically only one was a typo, the others were grammar so that would depend on how you like it.

Well I was gonna tell them about my boyfriend having hair in strange places from his nair-abusing drag days but I guess I'll leave that part out.

Not if you have pictures. It might help your case. You never know what they may get up too.

Chile who you tellin'? I wonder what kinda responses I'll get from the extremists

Got a "friend" that could open your mail for awhile?

 

[MystikWizard]

So I'm gonna start sending some emails out to different churches/pastors to see if I can open up some kinda dialogue. Here's a rough draft of the letter, I know you guys can help me dot the i's and cross the t's.

Being a gay men emailing a pastor is probably tricky business so I have to be on point.



I think it's important that the two communities merge because religion is one of determining factors in attitudes towards homosexuality. An ex of an ex was called a "faggot" by a pastor from the pulpit, in front of everyone on Sunday morning.

Good for you in doing what you are doing. I can't say I have much faith in there being a positive, meaningful response ... but you get an A for effort, at least.

As far as the HIV topic is concerned, I expect them to simply say in so many words, "Well, that is why Gays should not have sexual intercourse. That is the Lord's punishment to the homosexual offenders for embracing what is deemed in Scripture to be an abomination before God."

I still maintain that I think what needs to transpire is that Gays need to feel comfortable enough to come out (which means Queens, you need to sit down, quit contributing to giving Gays negative stereotypes, and SHUT THE FUCK UP so that parents with false perceptions of us don't make it any more uncomfortable for their kids to come out), have heart-to-heart, meaningful conversations with their parents about this to educate them, as trying to get Churches on the side of Gays only threatens the integrity of the Bible, and therefore the existence of the Church. Which is why I am not expecting anything to come as a result of it. But please share the results with how they respond. It may motivate us to follow suit if you experience any degree of success with it.

 

[HenryReardon]

That's what I think is missing, even people who don't agree with homosexuality as a lifestyle should still offer messages of acceptance instead of promoting or ignoring the hostility we face. Oddly enough I remember hearing sermons about forgiving murderers and thieves but when it comes to homosexuality it's the unpardonable sin. :


Well people change, you'll never know until you try.

Two comments:

1. "don't agree with homosexuality as a lifestyle?" Hello, it's not a lifestyle - it's who we are. Don't fall into the trap of those who consider it to be a 'lifestyle' and therefore a choice. By doing so, you perpetuate the myth.

2. If you are planning to address pastors in fundamentalist churches and cults, you are wasting your time. On the other hand, mainstream churches are mostly on board, to one degree or another. Bishops in the Episcopal Church voted, earlier this month, in favor of ordaining gays. Other denominations won't be far behind, if they haven't already addressed the problem. I'm speaking of Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, and Disciples of Christ here.

 

[andysayshi]

Congrats on a nicely worded letter, and applause for your honorable intentions. Go get 'em!

Some thoughts:

I think you could mention the fact, if only subtly, that many gay men and women are, in fact, people of faith. Many are regular church-goers too.

Is it possible to present more specific requests: what is the first step (or steps) in approaching your goal? A personal meeting between yourself and a local pastor? A meeting between the pastor and a local gay organization?

IS there a local gay organization? Have you made contact with them and discussed your goal? Can they offer support, or contacts with gay-friendly churches who might be allies in your approach to more conservative churches?

Just thinkin' out loud, but again, congratulations and good luck. I hope you'll keep us updated on your progress.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Two comments:

1. "don't agree with homosexuality as a lifestyle?" Hello, it's not a lifestyle - it's who we are. Don't fall into the trap of those who consider it to be a 'lifestyle' and therefore a choice. By doing so, you perpetuate the myth.

I caught that, I certainly don't agree with it being lifestyle or choice, I was just attempting to use "their language" but I can see how that could be poisonous.

2. If you are planning to address pastors in fundamentalist churches and cults, you are wasting your time. On the other hand, mainstream churches are mostly on board, to one degree or another. Bishops in the Episcopal Church voted, earlier this month, in favor of ordaining gays. Other denominations won't be far behind, if they haven't already addressed the problem. I'm speaking of Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, and Disciples of Christ here.

Yesssssssss! That's what I REALLY needed. I'm unfamiliar with the different denominations so googling random churches isn't going to be productive. Thanks for the tidbits.

 

[sabot3ur]

(which means Queens, you need to sit down, quit contributing to giving Gays negative stereotypes, and SHUT THE FUCK UP so that parents with false perceptions of us don't make it any more uncomfortable for their kids to come out)

stay classy, maryland

I think it rather means that negative people and COWARDS need to shut the fuck up and set a positive example that it's possible to not be such a pussy *ahem*..

and fabgwetto, good luck and I think that's a nice letter. trying this in person would probably get way more of a knee jerk reaction.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Good for you in doing what you are doing. I can't say I have much faith in there being a positive, meaningful response ... but you get an A for effort, at least.

<resists urge to post George Michaels' "Faith">

As far as the HIV topic is concerned, I expect them to simply say in so many words, "Well, that is why Gays should not have sexual intercourse. That is the Lord's punishment to the homosexual offenders for embracing what is deemed in Scripture to be an abomination before God."

They might, might not, we'll have to see. I might offer them a gentle reminder that black women's numbers are shooting into the stratosphere and that these talks are supposed to bring about solutions, not finger-pointing and condemnation. AIDS is problematic. Period. We can either write it off as an act of God or we can do something about it. How many churches even talk about it period, let alone in reference to sexual orientation?

I still maintain that I think what needs to transpire is that Gays need to feel comfortable enough to come out (which means Queens, you need to sit down, quit contributing to giving Gays negative stereotypes, and SHUT THE FUCK UP so that parents with false perceptions of us don't make it any more uncomfortable for their kids to come out), have heart-to-heart, meaningful conversations with their parents about this to educate them, as trying to get Churches on the side of Gays only threatens the integrity of the Bible, and therefore the existence of the Church. Which is why I am not expecting anything to come as a result of it. But please share the results with how they respond. It may motivate us to follow suit if you experience any degree of success with it.

I'll definitely keep you guys updated and let'cha know how it goes. I agree (as does the American Psychological Association) that coming out does quell some homophobia, I haven't really thought of a way to reach closeted men yet. The only thing they want from other men is dick.

I've tried encouraging some guys to come out, the way they responded you'd think I popped a squat and shitted on their mother's grave.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Tell ya what fab. I'll let you slam your foot in the car door, 15 times, and then be there to kiss it better. Me thinks you'll have more success in getting the Great Wall of China to move over 30 feet, but hey.... maybe you're a masochist.

You shut up! You haven't been in my inbox in months.

 

[HenryReardon]

I caught that, I certainly don't agree with it being lifestyle or choice, I was just attempting to use "their language" but I can see how that could be poisonous.

Yesssssssss! That's what I REALLY needed. I'm unfamiliar with the different denominations so googling random churches isn't going to be productive. Thanks for the tidbits.

I remember how excited I was 20 years ago or thereabouts when Borders Books started an "alternative lifestyle" section. It took me a couple of years to realize how insulting and misleading that was. They don't do that any more.

If you look at the websitesof some major churches, ie., large urban congregations, you will find that some of them already have aids ministries, or some version thereof.

One of the posters mentioned gay couples siting in congregations. I can think of a half dozen large episcopal congregations in Fla, DC, NYC, and Boston where you can spot couples in church regularly.

On the other hand, when it comes to the fundamentalists, there is nothing worse than being gay. Seriously, with those people, we rank well below axe murderers and rapists on the human scale, and that isn't going to change.

Your best results would perhaps be with churches which lie in between those two extremes, but they will be difficult to find.

Good luck.

Here is an example.
As a "high-church" Episcopalian, I gravitate toward those of our churches that are "anglo-catholic" when I travel. One of the best is Smokey Mary's (Google the term Smokey Mary's and it will take you to their website) in Manhattan. The Church of St. Mary the Virgin, on 46th St just around the corner from Times Square, acquired that nickname because they use a lot of incense.

Here is a link to their website:

http://www.stmvirgin.org/

Click on the section titled "Mission and Outreach" and you will find reference to their member's participation in Aids walks.

Same holds true for a lot of large urban churches. My familiarity rests mostly with Episcopal CHurches, but I have had some exposure to other main stream denominations.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I think you could mention the fact, if only subtly, that many gay men and women are, in fact, people of faith. Many are regular church-goers too.

Yesssssssss! That was the very first note in my initial draft but I forgot to include it.

Is it possible to present more specific requests: what is the first step (or steps) in approaching your goal? A personal meeting between yourself and a local pastor? A meeting between the pastor and a local gay organization?

These are good ideas, my plan wasn't to keep this local but I would consider meeting local churches. I live in an unofficially "gay" neighborhood, there's a gay-friendly church right up the road. I'm supposed to meet the pastor next week to discuss this.

IS there a local gay organization? Have you made contact with them and discussed your goal? Can they offer support, or contacts with gay-friendly churches who might be allies in your approach to more conservative churches?

I didn't think of involving any actual organizations but that's another great idea. Now do you see why I came to you guts first?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

trying this in person would probably get way more of a knee jerk reaction.

Amen. I'm hoping that, since these are emails, it might elicit a more thought-out response, face-to-face invites confrontation.

 

[White Eagle]

In the part that reads "homosexuals as young as preteen age are subject to bullying," you could add that the suicide rate among teen gays is high. Any help that could be given to them would help in bringing that number down.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

In the part that reads "homosexuals as young as preteen age are subject to bullying," you could add that the suicide rate among teen gays is high. Any help that could be given to them would help in bringing that number down.

Yes, terribly high. Last I read (a few months ago) approx. 30% of youth suicides are related to sexual orientation and identity. I almost believe that with homosexuality being put on a national platform it could do some harm, instead of surpressing these feelings like previous generations, kids today are having it thrown in their faces on the news and a lot of 'em don't have anybody to talk to about it.

Anywho thanks for reminding me to include that. I'm tryin' like hell to get this done but new projects keep coming up.

 

[Alpha1851]

I think this is a fantastic idea FG! Is there a particular group of churches that you wanted to target? If so, PM me a list and Jason and I will hand write letters to those churches.

We sent letters of thanks to the local Episcopal Church and letters to the surrounding Episcopal Churches. That is one religion that, as a whole, seems to have it right when it comes to outreach and acceptance of all people. They should definitely be proud for doing the right thing, stepping up to the plate and leading the way. Hopefully, the rest of our religions will follow.

You are right, some people do change. One of The_Pianist's posts in a HT thread lead me to approach my church about this issue. Catholicism has certainly played its part in harming LGBT folks and driving them away from Christ. In an effort to change some of our member's minds about homosexuality, we had educational programs about sexuality in general, school bullying, suicide rates and depression among gay folks, homophobia, AIDS/HIV myths and facts, orgs that discriminate against gay people, work discrim. issues, etc. Members were encouraged to do volunteer work w/ PFLAG and the Rainbow House. It's mandatory for the young kids. That was two years ago and these programs are still very popular w/in my church today. We also protest the churches who protest gay events (and we have yet to make the news even though the other churches who spread hatred make the front page) Now, did we change everyone's mind? No. Not hardly. Did we change a lot of minds? Oh, yes.