Assisted suicide

[Inwood]

This story is tragic. Clearly this woman was in excruciating pain and wanted to die peacefully, but the government wouldn't let her. How sad.

Can anyone give a rational reason as to why assisted suicide should be illegal? If a person is in that much pain and can be psychologically evaluated to prove they are of sound mind, why shouldn't they be allowed to control the way they leave this life?

Source-CNN.com

A French woman severely disfigured by facial tumors has been been found dead just two days after a court rejected her request for an assisted suicide.

Medical examiners were Thursday looking into the death of 52-year-old Chantal Sebire -- whose case had prompted nominally Roman Catholic France to reexamine its stance on euthanasia -- to determine whether anything illegal had taken place.
It was not immediately clear how Sebire died.


Sebire had suffered from esthesioneuroblastoma, a rare and incurable form of cancer for eight years, developing tumors in her nasal passages and sinuses that distorted her face and caused her nose and eyes to bulge.


The woman from Dijon, in eastern France, said drugs were ineffective against the excruciating pain caused by the condition and there was no reason doctors should not be permitted to hasten her death.


Assisted suicide is illegal in France, however. The law permits only passive euthanasia -- removing feeding and hydration tubes when a person is in a coma, or inducing a coma and then removing the tubes.


Sebire's lawyer had tried to convince a French court that it was "barbaric" to put her through the ordeal of dying slowly in an artificial coma, something that could take up to two weeks while her three children looked on in anguish.


The court turned down the appeal Monday.


At the same time, Sebire wrote a letter to French President Nicolas Sarkozy appealing for help, but he responded by suggesting top doctors should reexamine her for a second opinion.


Her plight and the questions it raised caused so much public debate in France that when Sebire was found dead Wednesday night, it made front-page news in heavyweight papers including Le Figaro and Le Parisien.


CNN Senior International Correspondent Jim Bitterman in Paris said the Sebire had many supporters in France with hundreds of people writing to her to express their backing.


"One of the reasons for this is this woman was a relatively young mother of three children and many people could sympathize. People think 'what would I do in the same circumstances.'"


A French group called the Association for the Right to Die with Dignity, which took up Sebire's cause, believes laws must be changed to take such cases into account.


"It is not the liberty of a politician or a doctor -- it's the liberty of the person who is suffering, who has a terminal disease," said Jean-Luc Romero, president of the group.


"It's only the decision of the people who have a terminal disease to decide (whether they may die)."


Others disagree.


"It isn't because a citizen says 'I want this' that we should modify the law," said Patrick Verspieren, a Jesuit bio-ethics expert. "The law is already quite open."
France's prime minister, health and justice ministers all made clear they did not believe changes in French law are needed.

 

[star-warrior]

You know, if she can administer her own pain relief, then, like Dr. Shipham and his overdosing of his elderly patients with diamorphine, she could have killer herself rather putting the onus on someone else to do it. Not that I champion this method or any method of suicide.

 

[BenF]

Assisted suicide is a very slippery slope, and it is not something that I would wish to be party to.

This case highlights the need for proper resources for palliative care that fully addresses the biological, social and psychological needs of the dying.

I remember successfully resuscitating an 83 year old lady who had, with full mental competence, taken a fatal overdose of painkillers as she could no longer stand the pain of her arthritis. A perfectly written, eloquent letter had been written stating that she did not wish to be resuscitated.

She spent two days in intensive care before being discharged from the ward three weeks later.

I still do not know whether I did the right thing by resuscitating her.

What I do know, is that had I allowed her to die, I would have had a lot of questions to answer in the Coroner's Court.

Would I do the same again? Yes. Every time.

 

[Inwood]

Assisted suicide is a very slippery slope, and it is not something that I would wish to be party to.

This case highlights the need for proper resources for palliative care that fully addresses the biological, social and psychological needs of the dying.

I remember successfully resuscitating an 83 year old lady who had, with full mental competence, taken a fatal overdose of painkillers as she could no longer stand the pain of her arthritis. A perfectly written, eloquent letter had been written stating that she did not wish to be resuscitated.

She spent two days in intensive care before being discharged from the ward three weeks later.

I still do not know whether I did the right thing by resuscitating her.

What I do know, is that had I allowed her to die, I would have had a lot of questions to answer in the Coroner's Court.

Would I do the same again? Yes. Every time.

I think the case in the original OP is quite different than that of standing the pain of arthritis. The French woman was going to die anyway, and rather than drag it out for her and her family she wanted to go quickly and quietly. I certainly wouldn't advocate for assisted suicide due to arthritic pain.

Then again, who are we to judge someone who is in pain? We each have our own threshold we can bear, and at 83 years of age, if I wanted to die because I couldn't hold a pencil in my hand without screaming in pain, I might consider it as well. It comes down to what the patient chooses and if they are competent enough to make their own decisions.

 

[BenF]

I would have let her die, as she wished.

Yes, it's very easy to say that from your armchair.

 

[BenF]

But, if I was aware of her wishes beforehand, I would have honored them.

That would have been easy for me.

You obviously do not understand the complexity and consequences of making such a decision.

 

[Inwood]

SO, are there any VALID reasons for not allowing assisted suicide?

 

[Jeimuzu]

I've never quite understood the laws against euthanasia. I think it should go through a huge process, to prevent serial killers pretending that it was what the people wanted, but it should certainly be legal.

 

[WYSIWYG]

I am sorry, but I do not think this is a slippery slope! We treat our elderly people horribly! My mother was in a rest home ands she was abused. I saw her life slip away with no help. They just continued to up her medications until she had NO LIFE! This is the issue here. Her bed sores got so bad and deep that they could not be healed! She left this world without any knowledge of who she was and was bedridden 24/7. She wanted to go a long time ago but was not allowed to and I did not have the authority even as her son to have her go to a better place.......

 

[frankfrank]

I should be able to make the final decision of what I want done with MY OWN body, if it should ever come to that.

This is one of my BIG reasons why the potential for an Oregon retirement looks better and better. (Currently no other U.S. state allows a person to choose their own death/suicide, regardless of circumstances.) I have no known issues right now, but I can't know what the future will bring.

I feel that the absolute prohibition of one choosing their own deaths, no matter what the circumstances, is extremely barbaric and uncivilized.

 

[backpacker]

I see Dr. Jack Kevorkian is running for Congress. I didn't think a convicted felon could hold public office. He's still on parole for his convictions related assisted suicides. He has done more for bringing the issue to light than any other person. He's certainly a guy who is willing to stand up for his convictions, even when it means his own liberty. I have never understood why it's considered the right thing to put a pet to sleep when they become too sick, but people are expected to suffer.

 

[Telstra]

Assisted suicide is a very slippery slope, and it is not something that I would wish to be party to.

This case highlights the need for proper resources for palliative care that fully addresses the biological, social and psychological needs of the dying.

I remember successfully resuscitating an 83 year old lady who had, with full mental competence, taken a fatal overdose of painkillers as she could no longer stand the pain of her arthritis. A perfectly written, eloquent letter had been written stating that she did not wish to be resuscitated.

She spent two days in intensive care before being discharged from the ward three weeks later.

I still do not know whether I did the right thing by resuscitating her.

What I do know, is that had I allowed her to die, I would have had a lot of questions to answer in the Coroner's Court.

Would I do the same again? Yes. Every time.

mouth to mouth with her Ben?

 

[Croynan]

a random question(s)

how would one deal with euthanasia if the desire to die is not related to a physical cause but rather to psychological and or emotional factor(s.?)

i think we often forget the psychological and emotional struggles that many people deal with and that even with medications their lives continue to present intolerable situations for them

shouldn't this entire matter be left up to and in the hands of the patient.? there is no way i would consider a doctor responsible for a patients death if they have reached a point where by euthanasia if their utlimate decision as regards to the future of their life.

as for the woman in this story by all means her request for euthanasia should have been granted. the response by the French President was a no win decision and merely a political ploy.

eM.

 

[Telstra]

Croynan,

if the patients (terminal illness only) ask for tablets to put them to sleep for good, they should be able to get the tablets.

 

[Croynan]

Croynan,

if the patients (terminal illness only) ask for tablets to put them to sleep for good, they should be able to get the tablets.

Telstra,

i am assuming by using the phase "terminal illness only" you are referring to a physical illness.

my question(s) i am posing go beyond physcial illnesses into the area of psychological and emotional illnesses which i believe can be just as serious and debilitating as a physical illness.

eM.

 

[Telstra]

pshychological patients normally don't ask to put them to sleep for good.

But terminal patients do (cancer, horrofic suffering).

 

[Croynan]

Suicide is actually a fairly common cause of death related to interminable mental suffering.

thank you Andrew. i think your response is a most legitimate one and one which i totally agree with.

in my view if a patient is dealing with interminably mental suffering i think the option of euthanasia should be an option made available to them.

eM.

 

[Telstra]

People who kills themselves have only themselves to blame but cause alot of pain to others.

 

[Paathogen]

What a tragic story. Although I am happy she is at peace now.

I know there will be a time when my cancer becomes unbearable.
I know there will be a time when my pain medications fail, and the pain becomes more than I can stand. At that point, I will end my life.

And if, for some reason, I am unable to- my roommate will assist me. Laws be damned. People first, laws second.

I watched my mother turn from an intelligent, charming, humorous woman.. into a drooling, suffering vegetable. If I was older, I would have helped her end her life, had she asked.

NO ONE has the right to tell me I have to suffer in pain. My cancer will kill me soon enough... but until I expire, my life is my own.

I find the USA to be completely hypocritical in that we outlaw suicide, but practice capital punishment.

"Any action, which has the principle effect of relieving suffering is ethically justified- even though it may have a secondary effect of possibly causing death."

 

[Inwood]

I know there will be a time when my cancer becomes unbearable.
I know there will be a time when my pain medications fail, and the pain becomes more than I can stand. At that point, I will end my life.

And if, for some reason, I am unable to- my roommate will assist me. Laws be damned. People first, laws second.

I hope that time is a long way off.

I find the USA to be completely hypocritical in that we outlaw suicide, but practice capital punishment.

I couldn't agree with you more. As President, Mr. Bush tried to block Terri Schiavo from dying in peace, yet as governor he had no problem zapping a convict each week. I guess there's a sliding scale on the value of human life.

But that's a topic for another thread.

The assisted suicide/euthanasia argument should be a no-brainer for people with physical illnesses, whether or not they are terminal or chronic. I wouldn't advocate for someone who had kidney stones, but certainly cancer and AIDS patients should be allowed to make that decision for themselves. Those are but two examples of many.

Allowing suicide/euthanasia for people with mental illnesses is a very tricky subject to navigate, one which would require a lot of discussion and much debate, but I don't think the argument can necessarily be discounted.