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Becoming a slave

Perhaps they don't take the master/slave thing as far as I'm imagining, I hope they don't.
Exactly.

It's just like all the visions that go through straight people's heads when you tell them you're gay. They want to know who's the male (Dom) and who's the female (sub).

But as you know, each gay relationship is different. There is no one male and female. It's negotiated.

Same thing in the leather Dom/sub community.

There's a Yahoo group that recently had a bunch of Master/slave contracts submitted to the group. They vary in amazing ways. No two are alike. (And almost all have horrible grammar and/or spelling, lol). They would be laughed at in a court of law. They are fantasies, through and through.
 
Perhaps this is where my ignorance creates concern. What happens if the Dom wants to keep him but he decides it isn't for him? I'm having visions of a Ike & Tina-esque fight where the Dom refuses to accept that his Sub wants out.
That's potentially a problem. But that's true of any relationship (Ike and Tina aren't gay Dom/subs, are they? ;))

Other potential problems:
  • financial obligations: some Doms want the sub's paycheck and all financial accounts (that's obviously a huge red flag)
  • physical modification: some Doms want the right to pierce, brand, and/or tattoo the sub.
  • 24/7: no outside life or connections with friends, family, or hobbies.
But how much of those are real and how much are just fantasy, I don't know. I imagine some guys have been burned (so to speak) by such things.
 
I haven't read everything thouroughly, so my comment might be a bit off..
I get the impression that you are very well aware of your thoughts and feelings, and that is good. I'm hoping that you are in as much control as you seem to be. For my own sake, I would not like for my sexual life to become my lifestyle. I'm sceptical about "scenes", where your life revolves around your sexual attractions, fetishes and wants. For you though, it seems that you feel a genuine need for it. I am sceptical, but I think that comes from not knowing you and your desires well enough.

If you chose to live like this openly, you will get a lot of shit for it. People will not understand this probably. If that's worth it, then go for it. If you manage to convey your thoughts to those who doubt you, and be comfortable with yourself, profiting from this, it will shine through. Don't rush into anything you're not ready for - and if the cons weigh down the pros, consider it. Best of luck to you!
 
I think that's the other part that concerns people. Some JUBers seem to feel that what Gdude needs is a reality check rather than submerging himself into a fantasy world. That may or may not be true, but some of the things he's written make me feel like he's taking the fantasy and incorporating it into some of his perceptions of reality. I think that's a valid concern considering his history. Even the people who are criticizing a little harshly, I think/hope the concern is his well-being, and the thought that he might be jeopardizing it by putting school off and instead focusing on this slave fetish.
True. I don't claim to have read all his blogs. And, as you probably know, I'm on JUB somewhat sporadically.

So I don't doubt that there may be some red flags in this specific case. But that's hard to tell, not having seen or talked to him in person. That's always the problem with giving advice here: you can only give advice based on what they tell you. Sorta like believing an online profile. :-) It's self-reporting.

I guess I'm just surprised at the misunderstanding on this topic. I just see so many similarities between straight perceptions of the gay world in the 70's, and gays' perceptions of kink in 2009.
 
i only read a little bit and i stopped. Sorry gdude, too long too. :cool:
Yeah, there should've been a disclaimer at the beginning saying to skip down to the pink headline if you didn't want to read the whole thing. By the time you see the pink headline, it's too late. :-)

But part of what makes me think he thought this through is how detailed his explanation was. Some guys have really really long posts, full of drama with "friends". This post was different. A lot of thought went into it.
 
Definately. I feel as though he is jeopardizing his youth, his education, everything that prepares him for the future. What if a year from now, a few years, he decides this isn't for him. At what cost? Loss of an education, possibly rejections from family and friends? People are comparing this to coming out, it's not in the slightest. You can't control who you love, you can determine if you want to spend your days being spanked. I'm going to get yelled at for this, but this isn't normal behaviour. His blogs, his threads, now wanting to be a 'slave'. That's why I think he needs to continue with therapy, counselling, and school.
I'm not being a dick just because I think this whole master/slave thing is absolutely stupid, i do think it is, but I'm being a dick because we should be encouraging gdude to seek help, guidance, encourage him to go back to school. Help him make a life for himself, not stand by and encourage him with this fantasy...at 18.

Best of luck to you Gdude.
You sound exactly like a straight person talking about a gay person.

I'm with you breion. I can't believe I read all of this. I never knew this lifestyle existed. Jeez.
Exact same thing. How is this different from what ignorant straight people say about gay people.

I was saddened. :cry: Now I'm becoming shocked.:eek:

Whatever happened to the gay mantra of "Whatever 2 consenting adults want to do is up to them"? It flies out the window if it isn't what you like?

Maybe I'm becoming sickened now.

Think, people. Think.
 
Wow. Thank you Lube. I gotta admit. I've never been to a play party too. But leather parties are fun. But really they aren't that much different then a normal gay party. Except sometimes protocols.

You sound like you are somewhat knowledgeable about the lifestyle. And strangely enough it doesn't surprise me lube.

I did state Marley that the agreements we make can't be held up in a court of law. It would be laughed at and probably ripped up. And sir even said if I don't choose to become his sub that he'd still give me advice and answer questions. And it's just a 3 month trial. I know the difference between reality and fantasy. I think about reality too much sometimes though.

My blog posts are really troublesome. I can't say I never saw this coming though.

Sir has said nothing about taking my money. In fact, he encouraged me to open a savings to save money. Which is a good idea. And I asked him about the parties I go to today and he said it's fine if I still go to them.

He is going to let me have an outside life. Especially since I'm part time.

And as for leaving. Sir told me a while back even. That if I wanted to leave he'd let me. He'd be really dissapointed and hurt. But he wouldn't stop me. And he couldn't really.

I will list the cons about this lifestyle marley. One is the dom breaks the agreements and starts hurting the slaves in ways that aren't part of scene and is just plain abuse and the slave is too afraid to contact someone.

Another is becoming obsessed with the lifestyle and needing more scene play and needing to get hit or flogged just to get turned on. That is more what molten rock was talking about. But he has misconceptions.

There is also a primal blood thirst that some doms can get. Where they need to punish their slave so much or hit so much that they draw blood. And this can be very dangerous. A sadist's danger is going too far and too much pain on the slave. And a masochist's danger is not knowing when too much is too much.

But I am not a sadist or a masochist. Sir is not a sadist either. Slave is also not a sadist or a masochist.

Another is the dom taking over the sub and not allowing the sub to have a life.

Another danger is hooking up with the wrong dom who has darker intentions in mind. Also doing a scene with someone you don't know. Like being tied up or something like that. EVEN IF A DOM TIES YOU LOOELY. Someone who is experienced with bondage. If you try to untie yourself then can quickly just grab your hand and raise it higher and then tie the rope to the point in which you cannot escape. Bondage and electric play are two of the most dangerous things to do with someone and require deep trust. Bondage being the second most dangerous and electric being first.

Another is if you are in a relationship with a dom and you both bareback. If he goes out and barebacks some guys and then comes home and infects you.

Some of the dangerous and red flags as well as cons in a vanilla relationship apply to a kinky one as well.

There are probably others. But like I said. I'm still learning.

And I don't neccesarily blame the others for their harsh responses. I said for people to say what they feel. While I might strongly disagree with what they say. I like to hear everyone's opinion.

But thank you Marley. While this lifestyle seems to confuse you you are analyzing it and wondering if it's really that great and want to know the bad side of it as well.

No relationship or lifestyle is perfect.

It takes work, trust, honor, commitment, and love.

I also know you are a bit worried about me Marley.

You are very right lube. WAY TOO MANY fake doms and subs out there.

And I am wondering if you know about old guard and protocols lube.

One thing that's common with old guard. Is that most masters in old guard. Have trained under a Sir. And have gone through the training that slaves go through. And through the training they have a better idea of what their slave feels when they become a master to their slave.

The sir who I keep mentioning. Was taken in by a master at an early age and was trained to be a master. But submitted to his trainer.

And usually in order for a master or dom to train you. Regardless of what you want to be. You usually have to submit to them. Sex is not always required. It is possible to live the lifestyle without sex. Some people can actually have relationships without sex. As unbelievable as it sounds. It is rare that it happens though. But most times the dom will want sex from the sub in exhange for training.

That to some is also a red flag. With Sir he agreed that he and his slave would not have sex with me. And that if sex happened I would have to be the one to ask for that or want it. And I guess I did later on >.>

But anyways.

I AM GONNA GET COLLARED :)

I emailed Sir the petition to be a slave and he was very impressed and we talked a bit tonight and he said that he is going to make the guidelines for me this weekend and get me a collar as well.

He gave me some early guidelines because I said with what little he told me that I would follow the guidelines that he already told me regardless of me not being collared yet in respect for my Sir and to show him my dedication.

So basically. I am going to become a slave. His slave. But like I said before. Until I see all the guidelines in documented form and until I go over them and agree or disagree on them and recieve my collar. Nothing is official yet.
 
Alley said:
No, you don't know him do you---just the writings of a young man trying to make sense of his life at a very young age---wow, where do you get off calling him mentally ill? Telling him to talk to a professional is one thing but to think you can diagnose him is way to far--And since you have not been around here too long it is very strange you should be so familiar with his posts(he has not been around much as late)--unless you are not telling the truth yourself--your posts remind me of this guy who left a few months ago..do you happen to have a problem with uncut cocks???

Alley. Thank you for defending me. But it's not necessary. Although I think I know your reasons for it and I appreciate them. I do agree with what you say too.

No offense Molten. I think you mean well. But your ignorance and mocking of the lifestyle does make you sound like a straight guy being ignorant of a gay guy and his lifestyle. And it almost seems like you are humoring me. I am not sure if you really care if I give you an update or not.

But I still will because I don't know for certain if you really do feel that way. It just seems familiar is all.

It doesn't seem like you really care about me either. But you really have no reason to since you don't really know me. But that's not your fault. By just reading someone's blogs and posts you don't know them. I learned that by going to gay days. I actually did talk to alley a bit there and he probably compared the way I acted there to the way I acted online so he probably knows me a little better. Well he acknowledged that I am a young gay guy trying to make sense of life.

You will be surprised how little you know jubbers if you ever got a JUB Meet.

Seeing as how slave uses his computer for his work and to chat with some of his friends yes. Although Sir doesn't know I come on here. I will talk to him about it though. Since this site is a bit different then dating sites. Who knows maybe I can get him to join :D

But I doubt that.

I am just going to explore this for now. After I experience it then I can determine if it's what I am searching for or not.

But thank you.

Marley said:
My initial shock of "Oh Lordy, how many ways can this go wrong" is dying down. Sounds like harmless fun and you're right, I'm constantly harping about how anything between two consenting adults is fair game. I hope the experience is enjoyable for you, I hope you exit when it stops being enjoyable, and you might even learn something about yourself. If nothing else, you might appreciate your freedom and even singledom later down the line when you remember what it was like being with someone and being controlled.

Thank you Marley. And that is something I questioned Sir about. I have a paste copy thing on my profiles which means that basically anyone who wants to talk to me on a dating site has to email my Sir and ask his permission.

I told him that I think the meaning of that is to earn that right. And I told him that lots of people would probably disagree with that because unlike those before us. Freedom is something that we beileve we have to have. Which is true because every human has the seed of freedom. But when you think that you can do whatever you want regardless of others. That's when you are taking of advantage of freedom.

I have a feeling that by the end of this journey. If I last anyways. I will have a more interesting outlook on life. Although what happens with some. Is even if they don't have to do things for their master or anymore or tell them everything. They end up doing it out of respect and love for their master. That's what Sir's first slave does.

Thanks again Marley. I'm glad you got some enlightenment.
 
Why are you hiding the lifestyle of Sir and Slave from your parents?
And how many gay guys here haven't come out to their parents yet? Hell, there's even an item in your JUB profile where you can select "only my friends know".

I call double-standard.

As for the rest of the post, I can't really speak to it, other than to say that perhaps his prior risky behavior was a manifestation of him not finding (or admitting) what he really wanted. But I am not a psychologist.

In any case, a 3-month trial is hardly throwing your life away. If anything, the time to try this is when you're young.

And who says everyone has to go to college? Do what you love, whether it's being a clown or an electrical supply salesman.
 
"I am more honest with my parents too. Although they know Sir and Slave exist. They do not know the lifestyle they represent. But my dad has even commented on how I am changing lately with improving my image, having more self confidence, and cooking for them."

Why are you hiding the lifestyle of Sir and Slave from your parents?

You are trying to find self worth, self confidence, self esteem and direction in life from a Master and his slave in the BDSM community. This is not the healthiest way to resolving your issues. Even worse is cutting yourself off from college to engage in this lifestyle, however brief you say this may last.

I've encountered this from you in IM when we used to chat. I talked to you about getting tested before you went off to college/started college. You were posting away about your risky sexual escapades. You had this " I don't care" mentality to your responses in IM chats. Even going so far as to imply that if you got something, it wouldn't matter.

Like in another of your posts. You wrote about a sexual situation you were in. You said the guy inserted without a condom on... and then pulled out immediately after. You claimed this wasn't barebacking. Well, it was. It does not matter if it was in there for 15 sec or 5 minutes. It was unprotected sex and you know it.

If you were to cut yourself and then stop... would you say that you never cut yourself in the first place?

Patterns emerge from your postings, blog posts and threads that I find alarming. You have your whole life ahead of you, don't blow it on this. You are a special guy, I can see that in you. You have a lot of potential for growth. I feel like you are making bad choices in your life which you may not fully understand you are making at this time. Or you are making for all the wrong reasons.

It's your life... steer it in the right direction through therapy and going back to school. That is where you will find the positive growth you are looking for. Make your life yours, not some masters.

This post may seem harsh, but I do care and want what's best for you.

Damn.

What is this X-Play.

Talk about brutal honesty.

I have learned more about it. What it is seems similar to edging. It's where a guy puts his cock near your hole and pushes. He doesn't actually push inside. It's a bit freaky and I hate it and when a guy does it I tell them to stop.

Or put on a condom.

Let me think. Oh hey guess what. I'm going to tell you guys that i am into this slave and master lifestyle

*gets hella flamed*

I should definately tell my parents about it now.

This thread just gives me more reason to be cautious. They have reason to know. But not yet.

When I said that stuff I was probably really depressed and really confused. It's not like I meant that. You can't always be convinced what someone says when they are in a depressed state to be true. I've learned that it's not true.

Damn you are really one of those people that are hellbent about college. I don't care if it takes my attention away from college. I am still thinking about it. I am sort of considering culinary school. But I am trying to find out if cooking is a passion for me.

And guess who's helping me with that. That kinky Sir who leads a false life and is obviously harming me :/

Unfortunately. You don't know the situation I am in and you don't really know me. I am closer to be getting ready to go back to college. But not yet. And I will pursue this lifestyle as long as it takes.
 
I personally have nothing against the lifestyle and find it to be extremely interesting. It definitely isn't something that many people would understand/prescribe to but as mentioned above homosexuality is viewed in that way to the "straight world".

With that said- I feel like entering into an arrangement like this, even with the contract, given gdude's past emotional states may be a poor decision. It is very clear that he has immersed himself in the culture and lifestyle which is awesome, however, it seems that with everything that he was experiencing in the past couple of months this may not be the right answer at this time.

As he stated, I believe, it started as a sexual desire or or sexual fetish which has allowed itself to grow and then transform into solely a lifestyle desire. It seems that Gdude has taken the right precautions with entering into a "trial period" while still living in another residence. But that begs the question- what if the relationship begins to take a more intense S&M bond in which the Dom begins to take advantage of Gdude. Of course- this is all what if, but people do become immersed within lifestyles and things could escalate.

I am totally supportive of the BDSM culture and lifestyle, I even worked in a retail store devoted to the lifestyle. I just wonder if it's something that a guy who has shown and stated that he has had emotional/mental issues in the past year should be getting into, especially at a young age. As we all know, or have just read, the lifestyle is not to be taken lightly.
 
Darkness. I'm sorry but with what you just said about lying to my parents. At first I did and said that I was going somewhere else. But I stopped doing that. They might not know what goes on when I meet them. But I don't have to tell my parents everything. I have a right to my privacy.

At first it did sound like you were trying to help. I'm sorry but I just can't respond to your posts anymore because of something personal that me and my dad discussed. I've been able to ignore, combat, or take in and think about all the insults and posts here and take them with a grain of salt. But with you telling me I am lying to my parents. I'm sorry but that's where I draw the line. Not only that. But you are continuing to try to hold back at insulting me. But that seems to be the only thing you will do now if you keep posting. And it's not helpful. I'm sorry darkness but you went too far by slandering the trust that I have with my parents.
 
I personally have nothing against the lifestyle and find it to be extremely interesting. It definitely isn't something that many people would understand/prescribe to but as mentioned above homosexuality is viewed in that way to the "straight world".

With that said- I feel like entering into an arrangement like this, even with the contract, given gdude's past emotional states may be a poor decision. It is very clear that he has immersed himself in the culture and lifestyle which is awesome, however, it seems that with everything that he was experiencing in the past couple of months this may not be the right answer at this time.

As he stated, I believe, it started as a sexual desire or or sexual fetish which has allowed itself to grow and then transform into solely a lifestyle desire. It seems that Gdude has taken the right precautions with entering into a "trial period" while still living in another residence. But that begs the question- what if the relationship begins to take a more intense S&M bond in which the Dom begins to take advantage of Gdude. Of course- this is all what if, but people do become immersed within lifestyles and things could escalate.

I am totally supportive of the BDSM culture and lifestyle, I even worked in a retail store devoted to the lifestyle. I just wonder if it's something that a guy who has shown and stated that he has had emotional/mental issues in the past year should be getting into, especially at a young age. As we all know, or have just read, the lifestyle is not to be taken lightly.

There is a real easy response to that. My sir is not into BDSM and he is not a sadist. And yes it's a what if thing and I keep everything on the table and in my thoughts as a what if. But sir does not do BDSM with his current slave. Sir is more into Slave and Master lifestyle and leather.

I am glad that you acknowledge that I have taken the right steps. I really knew my blogs and threads would come back to help me. And while I can't really do anything to show the change right now. People who have met me in person seem to understand. I guess all I can do is grow and show how much of a change is happening.


Unfortunately sometimes BDSM, S&M, Slave and Master, and Leather are grouped together. While it's true that it used to be that way. They are now 4 different lifestyles which can merge together. Or maybe 3 of those scenes and lifestyles can be merged together. But not everyone chooses all of them, one of them, or some of them.

There are masters who are not into leather but into BDSM. And there are those who aren't into master and slave lifestyle but are into pain and pleasure lifestyle.

Also S&M means sadism and masochism. Not slave and master.
 
And how many gay guys here haven't come out to their parents yet?

I call double-standard.

I call logical fucking fallacy.

You sound exactly like a straight person talking about a gay person.

Oh, there's another one.

And as GDude pointed out, 30 years ago DSM classified homosexuality as a mental illness. It's an interesting story as to how it got changed. I'm guessing you've probably read it, as you seem like a very bright guy. Don't you see the similarities here?

Whoops, there again.


Lube, there are myriad reasons for concern in gdude's case, all of which have been elucidated a number of times already. You feel differently and have stated your reasons as to why, which is all well and good--personally, I take no stance--but this...

Lube said:
How is this different from what ignorant straight people say about gay people.

...this is intellectual dishonesty, dismissing someone with false logic, trying to bully and shame them into shutting up: "You know who you sound like? The Oppressors!"

Just because the DSM has been wrong before, doesn't mean it is wrong now.

Just because homosexuality was incorrectly maligned as deviant, immoral and unhealthy does not mean all sexual behaviors are immune to such criticism--especially since homosexuality is now understood to be primarily an orientation, not a behavior.

Just because you see similarities doesn't necessarily mean they exist, or that they are anything more than superficial.
 
Max, if you feel the need to be a bond servant ( I refuse to use the term slave) to this gentlemen then it go for but do it with your eyes wide open As for those those who are nagging you to get a degree an honest trade is just as honorable as having a Ph d One last thing how old are they?
 
I call logical fucking fallacy.

...this is intellectual dishonesty, dismissing someone with false logic, trying to bully and shame them into shutting up: "You know who you sound like? The Oppressors!"

Just because the DSM has been wrong before, doesn't mean it is wrong now.
No, but what it does mean is that, before quoting it, you should think about what has happened in the past and ponder about whether there are correlations with what is happening now.

Obviously, I think there are.

People have a natural tendency to think anything that they don't like is wrong. Whether it is being a racial minority, eating okra (yuck!), homosexuality, being a religious minority, being female, fisting, scat, S&M, Dom/sub, rimming, anal intercourse... the list goes on and on.

People are afraid of what they don't know.

People hear "slavery" and they think GDude is going to be beat to a pulp, kept chained up in the back yard naked or kept in a dungeon, not fed or clothed, and be generally abused. That is not what he's looking for. And, from the sound of his Dom, that's not what he's going to get.

Please read up on the community before criticizing it so harshly. Ignorance is not bliss. Thanks.
 
Guys, in the absence of any of your regular mods, I've cleaned up a couple of unecessary comments that were doing nothing to this discussion.

It may well be more beneficial to discuss the pros and cons of the WHO and the DSM's opinions in a separate thread rather than hijack this one for a personal debate.

The more important matter at hand is gdude's decision and the ramifications that it is going to have on his life. Lets try and keep it focussed eh? Cheers guys.

Dave
 
With regard to the actual discussion, I'll openly admit that it is a lifestyle I've not come into contact with, and about which I have a limited amount of knowledge.

My main concern is simply one of self worth. From your blogs etc it is apparent to me that you are very much a 'lost soul' searching for 'something'. Whilst I can appreciate that this opportunity will give you a purpose and the feeling of worth and love, I do worry that you'll beat yourself up (mentally) every time you make a mistake or displease Sir. I just feel that this move is going to reinforce your feelings of uselessness rather than build up your confidence. This whole scenario seems to be 'avoidance' and 'escapism' from the harsh realities of life and the deal that you feel you've been dealt.

I really hope that I'm wrong and that it becomes a positive life enhancing experience for you, however, whatever you're trying to run away from or avoid, will always be there until you face it head on.

Luckily for you, there will always be people here at JUB that can help and support you.

Dave
(*8*)
 
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