Being Christian and Gay?

[Chevyguy723]

So this is my story:

I have been raised a Christian (Pentecostal), and my whole family is Christian, including myself. I went to a Christian school my whole life and went to church all the time. I am from Maine, and a Freshmen now in college in Tampa. I haven't gone to church since i came down here, but i have little worship services in my room with my laptop and some songs i bought and downloaded. I feel like i'm a Christian and i feel God in me. Like i love how i feel when i worship, sometimes i cry and sometimes i get the giggles, but anyway i do it, i know God is there and he is with me, but i'm confused.

I feel like i'm gay. i know that i masterbate to gay stuff and like it more than girls, and i try not to do this cause i know its sinning. I count the days that i haven't looked at porn or masterbated and its hard for me to go longer than a week.

Anyways, i think the first time i thought i was gay was when i was like 11 or 12 and i was watching Power Rangers. they were doing their thing where they call on their monsters or whatever and when the red ranger did his, i was like, "he's cute." and my dad was like, "no, he's cool" and i said, "oh, he's cool then" but i remember thinking he was cute in my head, i am a smart kid i know the difference. then my bro caught me looking at gay porn on my mom's computer in her office at my school (she worked there, the christian school). he told my mom which i couldn't believe, and she looked at the history and saw the sites. on the way home she asked me if i was gay and i said, "no, those were just pop-ups, i was looking at other stuff and they just came up."

my first time masterbating was when i was 12 and i was in the bathroom and i had no idea what had happened. my dick was hard and i just kept rubbing the bottom of it cause it felt good and then i had a wicked good feeling inside me and i came a little and had NO idea what it was, lol.

So my dilemma goes a long way. I think everyone around me thinks i'm gay, i don't want them to think that, i want to be str8 cause i just wanna do everything str8 ppl do, but it sucks cause i can't be. also its harder to make friends with guys who like the same things i do because they think i'm gay.

my cousin is a lesbian and so is my aunt, both on my mom's side. i remember one time my sister asked my dad where he would be if he didn't marry my mom and he said, "i would probably be gay." he talked to me one time about college and all the things he wished he hadn't done with his friends, i'm guessing he experimented with his guy friends or something, that's what it sounds like.

oh yeah, we had DirecTV at home and i spent around 250 dollars on fake porn that i would buy like every night. i told my mom that i did it because it was str8 stuff so i wasn't afraid to. she made me pay her it all back and that was my only punishment. i think that me being gay could be like my fault for doing that or my dad's fault for what he did, i don't know.

from everything i have been taught about the Bible in school and in church (which is more than most ppl learn cause i had a bible class like every day of my life practically and sometimes two classes in one day) from all of that, i learned that being gay is not okay. well not exactly that, i am not sure, but i think that the bible doesn't say ANYTHING about a person being gay, it just says that sex is to be between a man and a woman. and if u don't believe that because some ppl say that was translated not perfectly correct. then the things that nobody argues with are that the Bible says u are not to have intimate relations outside of marriage, and it is for sure when it says marriage is to be with a man and a woman. so i don't know why i feel this way about guys because i started watching str8 porn that showed all of the woman and never even showed a dick. but for some reason i found myself wanting to see more of the guy and wanting the guys to be hotter and not the girls. then this channel "Here" came out and i started buying gay movies like "Beautiful Boxer" and "Dante's Cove" and "Yossi and Jager" and other ones and stuff.

this post is getting really long so thank u if anyone reads this.

my cousin and i are really close and i think he has convinced himself that i'm not gay. he is one year younger than me and he is thinking of coming to tampa and rooming with me, i don't think he would want to anymore if i told him i was gay, even though nothing would be different about me than it already is, the only thing that would change would be his knowledge of the situation, kinda like an ignorance is bliss sorta thing. i really want him to come down here cause we like alot of the same things and he is my best friend so we would have tons to do. i dunno

another thing is that i had a girlfriend. this complicated things so much because it was recently that she was my girlfriend and i think i really did like her like that. i remember once she was in this play and i was in the balcony, they were just rehearsing, but when she came out i got tons of butterflies in my stomach. then i think after like 3 months i didn't like her anymore. plus i was going to tampa and she was going to Tennessee, so i was happy that we were both leaving and ended up using that as an excuse to break up instead of having to tell her i didn't like her any more. but when we broke up i cried, not because i wanted to, but because i was sad. she was my first kiss and that's all we did. we kissed a few times but that's it. i liked it though. and one time we were in the movies and she was lightly rubbing my upper leg and she started to give me a hard-on so i told her to stop because i couldn't get one in the middle of the theatre with her brother and sister sitting on the other side of her.

So the bottom line is, I know i'm gay, but i don't want to be, but i can't do anything about it. I think its wrong to do gay things, but not to be gay. I don't know if i should just tell everyone i'm gay, but not do anything gay with a guy. I will just never get married or have sex or anything like that i guess, i don't know. I think my parents would be okay with it since my aunt is gay, but my aunt is weird and get into religious discussions too much and starts fights all the time. one time she said that she thinks her family doesn't love her, i could not deal with having that feeling, i think my family thinks i might be gay anyways. everyone at my job thinks i am gay and only recently told some ppl was wasn't.

i have this one friend that i told i was struggling with being gay and she told me she struggled with being a lesbian before but she was over it now. i told her everything and then a couple months later we were talking on the phone and i told her that i am over thinking i am gay. this is what i said, i was like, "I think it was just because i was masterbating alot and that made me like horny or something so that i liked any physical touch, even from a guy. When i don't masterbate, i don't feel things toward guys" well that is WAY not true now.

to continue, there was this guy, he was my bro's friend, here's his myspace:

*Link removed*

he is actually the older brother of one of my friends. he is the cutest most perfect guy i have ever seen in my life!!!! i really think that i was in love or something because i felt for sure there was nothing he could do that would make me mad at him, nothing he could say that i wouldn't like. i wanted him to be happy all the time, and the worst part was, he was wicked nice to me. i was hanging out in our basement with all of my bros' friends (two grades ahead of me) and we went to seven eleven to get big gulp slushies. then when we went home they were all doing this thing where they were downing them and making themselves get a brain freeze and seeing how much they could down before having to stop. they were all making each other do it and dave (the one i like) who was sitting on the futon next to me (holy crap it was awesome, our arms touching as we both laughed at the stupidness of them, and our legs bumping into one another) and he was like i wanna see greg do it (i'm greg). but it was in a nice way, like he wanted me to be more involved. he is kinda metro, but i think he's str8. he is in college in california now and is pursuing becoming an actor, but he is so hot and i miss seeing him whenever he came over. also i am really good friends with his brother, and i slept over his brother's house a few times and he was there. i even slept in dave's bed one time i slept over when dave wasn't there. so i really think that if any guy could make me gay, he's the one, but he's not gay.

there is this gay guy in my beginning painting class who said most of his friends are Freshmen even though he's a junior. here's his facebook:

*Link removed*

he has some of the most beautiful eyes, and he isn't all flamboyant either, cause i think that if someone is gay, they should want to act more like a guy and less like a girl because they look for gay guys who act like guys so they should themselves, that's what i think anyways. so he doesn't even sound gay and i kinda thought he was until i saw a pic of him on one of my friends facebook's and then looked at his profile and found out he was gay.

i think that i was to hang out with ppl that are just good friends and like the same things i do. i know that i think of doing things with guys, but i don't like that i think that because i think its wrong. I don't care if my friends are gay or not, i just want some good friends that i can do fun stuff with like go bowling or the beach or the movies or camping or play sports like basketball, volleyball, tennis, soccer, and play hackysack and stuff like that. but so far none of the guys down here want to be my friend cause they all think i'm gay. i don't know what to do.

IF ANYONE HAS ACTUALLY READ THIS WHOLE THING THEN U ARE CRAZY, BUT THAT WOULD MAKE ME CRAZY FOR WRITING IT, THANK U!!

Sincerely,
Greg

 

[argomac]

Hi Greg. First of all, good for you for at least talking about it and trying to get yourself sorted out. This kind of thing can drive you mad if you bottle it all up.
Christian or not, the period of wondering whether or not you are gay is a confusing and at times scary experience, but your religion seems to be adding to that pressure.
Think about it. Is that what religion and faith should do? Should it confuse you? Should it be a burden? Or should it help you to lead the best life you can and feel as happy as you can?
When I came out it was just as weird for me as it seems to be for you. I was raised Christian and still consider myself to be. My family are Christian too, and naturally the thought of coming out to them terrified me, but they were really great about it. My boyfriend (also a christian) and his family are equally loving and supportive.
Now the Bible may imply that sex between two men is wrong. It's open to interpretation as we all know. The Bible says an awful lot of stuff that doesn't apply or doesn't make sense so much in today's society. Leviticus 17 (I think) says it is a sin to wear fabric woven from two different materials. Poly-blends are an abomination?!
Whatever you may think of the Church's stance on homosexuality, it's a miniscule part of the text, and pales by comparison to the overall message; love, tolerance, comfort and more.
Personally, I think God made me this way - and I think he did the same to you. Put the Bible to one side and think of God Himself directly. Do you feel like a bad person, really?

You'll be fine x

 

[joeG23]

Hi Greg, you have made an important step in coming here and sharing where you are at. You need a bit of space for yourself to try and sort out where you want your life to go. If you're gay, it's because God made you that way. See that as the starting point for your relationship with him if that is important to you. There's the Bible, and there's the interpretation of it. In my experience, there is a significant difference between the two. Interpretation comes from man - and man has a pretty good track record in getting things wrong. Find your own equilibrium with God - not other people's. The gay thing in the Bible is not cut and dried, and it also has to be seen within the context of the time in which it was written. There are positive homosexual relationships there (David and Jonathan being one), and some very erotic writing which exaults human sexuality. I think it is Matthew where Jesus says there are just two commandments - love god and love your fellow man. I don't think the Jesus of the Bible would condemn you for wanting a loving relationship with a guy. Remember, he did not condemn the prostitute.

You have begun a journey through your life. I get the feeling that those close to you already know the truth. You have told a few white lies along the way. Only you know when to tell them, but I suspect they will be supportive.

Best of luck. I am not into organised religion myself, but I know that if you treat others as you would want to be treated yourself, and if you respect them as human beings, you will remain faithful to the values you hold dear.

Best of luck. Joe

 

[RicanDAB]

Hey Greg,

OK, I am crazy as you said for having read your whole post ... but it was certainly not boring. I agree with many here in that you are at a stage where many gay men have been. It is extremely hard to have a life where you don't feel anyone will like you because you are gay. You may get this feeling based on what others say about gay people and that may force you deeper into the closet. But anyway, what is important is that you accept yourself first because without that it will be harder for you to allow them to accept you.

You say "you don't want to be gay" .. it's unfortunately not a choice we have and if it were I am sure none of us would even choose to have to deal with this misery of deciding with who to come out or who I am attracted to.

Your family will accept you if they really love you - they may not agree with your choice of lifestyle and perhaps refuse to talk to you about it at first - but often that takes time for them to digest. Only YOU however, can choose when to come out to them.

I am not going to touch the religion aspect deeply, but only enough to say that you can still be a devout Christian and accept your feelings for men as valid. Every religion apparenlty interprets the Bible differently - so why shouldn't every individual do that for himself as well without having the hirearchy do it? We're not machines - we have our own minds and consciouses too.

My suggestion at least for you ... if you want to meet more gay friends to hang out with and still maintain a low profile (which in your case I would recommend to start but long term would be a bad thing): Orlando has a pretty active gay life and the city is far enough away that you can get away with not seeing many of your friends and neighbors (though, there are no guarantees - this is a small world sometimes) ... plus it gets you out of the negativity zone that is in Tampa. I am not familiar with the gay Tampa scene, but I still think it would be better to get out of Tampa every once in a while and for now not mesh your apparent 2 lives. Eventually, you will have to once you are comfortable with yourself.

Thanks for taking the first step by posting here -- you will get a lot of great advice from a ton of great guys around the globe -- and at the very least it is food for thought on your concerns.

All the best, buddy!

 

[Danugh]

Ok.

I was once told by a christian leader that "it is ok to be gay, as long as you don't practice the act of homosexualty."

I took that to mean that the church accepts and understands that people can actually be born gay and there is nothing that can be done about that. However, while the church accepts that fact, at the same time it is not ok to actually carry out the act.

The actuall act of gay sex is the sin - its called sodomy. But to love another man i not sinful. Just dont have sex with him is the view heald by the church.

 

[Alive and Free]

This is a very difficult struggle of the soul and mind that many of us have gone through and continue to go through , I honestly believe that it is only the love of God and intimate love that can help us over come this struggle. My Faith is a huge part of my personel life and at one time I was very envolved with the institutional Church but your perosnel Faith in the Almighty far surpasses the artifical morality built to keep us out of intimate love.Go with you heart and stay close to the Lord.

 

[Soilwork]

i want to be str8 cause i just wanna do everything str8 ppl do,

buddy, the only thing that straight guys do that you can't is enjoy sex with women.

Past that.. you can do whatever you want.

You can have a normal life (whatever "normal" is ) and you can do all the things you enjoy doing.. and that includes having a boyfriend and having sex with him.

Don't believe all the bullshit that people tell you about not being able to be happy while being gay... it doesn't work like that.

 

[blatinoking]

Greg,
I used to have a crush on the red ranger too. I too grew up Pentecostal/Holiness, and felt the same way. I've been told recently that this is something that you can be "delivered" from, but I don't know. My family doesn't know except for my 1 gay cousin. My family is so religious, I think they are psycho. But I once acted like them because I thought I was supposed to, but as I got older, my feelings towards guys just got worst. Who knows it feels too natural, to say that it's wrong, but they say in the bible that "We are all born in sin, and shaped in iniquity." Ultimately the choice is yours

 

[Soilwork]

Funny how the Heterosexual Christians get to pick and choose which bible verses they agree with, enforce and follow.

I say the gay Christians should be able to do the same.

 

[Chevyguy723]

i think that some of the things i said might not be getting accross right. i do believe what's in the bible, and one of u said that polyblends are an abomination, the thing about mixed fabric was from the old testament and that certain passage was more of a history lesson that a law that is supposed to be followed now, it was just saying what it used to be like at a certain time and i don't know for sure but it probably says later that it was gotten rid of for certain reasons, i don't really know, i do know that lots of things ppl try to say about the bible not applying to today, they end up being wrong because they themselves haven't read the whole thing and haven't been taught about it. it would be like me reading one section from a calculus book on my own, and then trying to tell someone else about it and explain it, it doesn't work.

thanks for the comments though, i agree with wat someone said about the Bible being God's word and also seperately man's translation of it. the only way to truly know what a book means is to ask the author in person, but God isn't here so we can't do that. There is a verse in II Kings that says something like, 'My sheep know my voice.' and i feel like if i'm a good christian, then i should know what God is saying about being gay in the Bible, but there are so many ppl who believe oppositely on the issue that its hard to know which is true. so many educated ppl that disagree about something, and i am stuck right in the middle of it. personally, i don't think its fair.

one guy said that if we could choose to be gay or not then most ppl would choose not to. if its so okay, then why would most ppl choose not to? probably because there are so many ppl against being gay that life is made hard not because u are gay, but because of bad ppl in the world that make it hard. if there was no prejudice, then what would be okay and what wouldn't?

another thing that comes into play is the idea of right and wrong. many ppl in our culture think that actually "being" gay is wrong where as some ppl think that the act of doing something gay is wrong, like someone said that doing something gay is called sodomy and that is wrong. we get the word sodomy from the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (not sure how to spell the second one). i read this whole thing that someone wrote and they were saying that the hebrew words for the verses about sodom and gomorrah actually don't mean "gay" they mean being inhospitable and inconsiderate to others, and the reason the city was burned was because of how horrible they were to visitors, not just not being nice, but killing them and stuff. there is a story where 3 angel visited someone when he was in sodom and there were men trying to break in and were yelling, "send out the angels so we may get to "know" them, know meaning have sexual relations, and they were saying that is bad, but we don't really know if the word "know" meant sexual because it was used other ways, the men could have wanted to kill them or tortue them, we can't know for sure. there is so much controversy over this.

i do believe that i am a christian, but i don't know whether or not God thinks its okay to be gay, and until i do i don't plan on accepting the lifestyle. i need to pray, which i do all the time, until my heart and my relationship with God tell me that its okay, i cry so much because right now i feel like its not okay, but why am i stuck with it. i blame myself for the way i am, but i also don't know if i am like this because of the sins of my ancestors, or the since of men centuries ago.

one of u said that we are all born in sin, we aren't born "in" sin, we are born with sin in us. and when we become christians, we don't change, we don't become sinless. the Bible says that the only way into heaven is to accept God into your heart and that we need to be perfect in God's eyes. when we become a christian, nothing, absolutely NOTHING about us changes, the only thing that changes is that once we accept God, he sees us differently, its kinda like he has a special pair of glasses to view each person and when one becomes a christian, he see's that person perfectly. so i don't know if i was born gay, it would seem like it because the whole power ranger episode happened before i was exposed to any sort of sexuality, if i was, then since i am a christian, God will see me as perfect in his eyes and it is okay, but if it is an effect of me sinning, because Satan is the prince of the world, he will temp somewith with the thing he knows will work best against them and make them sin, satan wouldn't temp someone to steal if that person has never even thought about it our was unable to, he's gonna temp someone to steal who is in the perfect position to steal, u know what i mean?

so i don't know if me being gay is from God or from Satan. I have sinned and because of that i can't expect there to not be consequences, i have repented and God has forgave me and i am right with God, but there is the verse that 'be sure ur sins will find u out" and i don't know if this whole thing that i am struggling with is my sins finding me out, u know. i wish SO MUCH that i could just meet God and just talk with him about it and know exactly what i need to do. because i do believe that there is a heaven and a hell and i will not accept going to hell especially after how much of God i have in me, so before i can accept a certain lifestyle that i don't know for sure is okay with God, then i am not gonna do it. the Bible says that if u ask something of God, he WILL answer, maybe not when we want or how we want, but i am gonna get an answer for this, also the Bible says that God won't put us through anything we can't get through, he has to let Satan temp us a certain amount because he chooses to and if he chose not to then there would be no free will and there would be no point to life, we would be robots on earth. but God won't let satan temp us so much that we can't get through it, which is only fair seeing as how then satan would just take ppl into hell all the time. the way i see it is that the Bible says when someone becomes a christian the heavens rejoice. God knows what we are gonna do, but he doesn't make us do it. if i talked to God about two newborn babies, he would be sad about the one that isn't going to heaven, and happy that the other one is, he knows what gonna happen, but he isn't making it happen because he gave us the choice. its kinda like this: if i drop a ball, i KNOW that it will fall, but i don't make it fall. i know for sure the ball will drop to the ground and nothing else is gonna happen, i know it, but even though i know it, i am not responsible for making it happen. where is all of this going, i don't know. oh yeah, so i have sinned and that was my choice, but i don't know if being gay is because i have sinned, meaning its from Satan and its something i have to "get through" or if God made me this way and i just need to accept the fact that my lifestyle will be harder because of the sinfull ppl out there that make it harder. until i know this i can't choose to accept it or to try and make it go away, i don't know

 

[dunno260]

I had some longer recommendations and such, but I just kept on rambling and getting nowhere. My recommendation would be to seek out gay friendly churches and pastors/priests and talk to them about why they believe what they believe about the bible and homosexuality. I don't know much about the pentocostal church other than I probably wouldn't like it very much, but it doesn't seem to me that its a church with a lot of diversity of oppinion (and I could be wrong, I don't know). But, if you were here in Birmingham, I could show you a couple of Southern Baptist Convention churches that are very gay friendly, not to mention the episcopla churches and some of the methodist and presbyterian churches (and the cooperative baptist fellowship churches).

You may never be able to fully reconcile your faith with your sexuality. I don't know. But I think you should see what the other side believes in a little more depth as well.

As for me, well I am not a biblical literalist at all and never grew up as one. But thats my faith, and I have no clue if its the right faith at all. I just know that it works for me and that I am satisfied with it.

 

[nwdavis]

My advice to you is to talk to your lesbian aunt about how you are feeling. She may be able to help you understand what you are going through.

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[screwnutty]

one guy said that if we could choose to be gay or not then most ppl would choose not to. if its so okay, then why would most ppl choose not to? probably because there are so many ppl against being gay that life is made hard not because u are gay, but because of bad ppl in the world that make it hard. if there was no prejudice, then what would be okay and what wouldn't?

Greg (cool name by the way...that's my name too! you don't run into too many Greg's these days! )

anyways, your right. Nobody (if given the choice) wants to be something that stands out from the norm. (what truly is normal anyway?) But were not given that chance, where sent her either by God or a high power or any other spiritual means and we have to be here for a reason. The things that happen in our life can't be dumb luck...at least I hope not! I know what your going through and I know how confused you are about it. But as somebody already said, If God didn't want you to be gay...you won't be here now would you. If there is a devil or an evil force (I believe more in an evil presence, cause without evil....there can be no good and vice versa) why would a) God allow the devil to mess with his plans, b) why would the devil (a being of pure evil) allow gay men and woman to fall in love and share there life together? Love is stronger then good and evil combined (heard that somewhere...can't remember where...doesn't matter! ) and my final point is a little of topic but God teaches love and forgiveness. Why in all these years has God not forgiven Lucifer for trying to take over heaven? You think a couple of 100 thousand years in God's basement would be long enough time out right? I've always wondered this......anyways back to topic at hand.

The point is....your at a doorway. Thee Doorway. You've got a long road ahead of you as you try to decide on your sexuality. Are you Straight-Curious, Bi or Gay. Don't feel the need to rush it, take your time. Stop feeling guilty about it and just relax and enjoy the ride!

 

[Roland00]

Hey Greg

Let me do some quick talking about a "sidestep" from the original discussion and my response to it

----------------------------

Okay I aint going to argue whether the Bible was divinly inspired or not when it was first written. I do not know, and I won't pretend to know. I do know though that once the bible was written it was skewed and mistranslated by man, and that current idea of the bible is very different from the original works. Hopefully through archaeological, etymological, and historical science we can get a better idea of what the original writter's message was, for this version has been skewed so much throughout the centuries.

The Torah was first assembled during the Babylon Captivity 568 bc-538bc. It was supposedly assembled from holy texts and scriptures that were written before the captivity, but were never organized. (The babylon captivity that is 700-900 years after Mose/Egypt Exodus, historians don't really know for sure when that occured if it occured. Good evidence for 1450 bc, tradition says it occured during the reign of Ramesses II thus 1279 BC to 1213 BC)

The first time that the suggested reason why Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed due to homosexuality didn't occur until about 100bc. About the time of the introductuion of new thoughts due to the influx of the new Hellenestic Culture (fusion of Greek, Persian, and Egyptian cultue). Ezekiel which was written before the fall of jerusalem said it was due to the arrogance of these two cities and how they didn't help the poor. Matthew, says it is due to inhospitibility. Regardless, this interperation didn't occur until 1200 or more years after Genesis was written.

Additionally you have to realize how mistranslations create error. You mentioned the King James Version of the bible. Well that is probally one of the worse translated copies of the bible, it intensified the errors that occured from translating from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English. It was the first English translation of the bible, but historians now lambest it accuracy. Each time words lose their meaning, and the meaning of the word is tied to a specific thing at a certain time. Words and Languages evolve, and unless you know the original meaning you insert new thought and spin onto it. For pete sake look at abonimination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_(Bible)

My point is to be distrustful of what others tell you what the bible means. Trust your own heart too, and not just because somebody tells you it means X.

----------------------------

Okay back on target.

I want to thank you for writting that, it reminded me of me four years ago. Sometimes people forget how much they have grown and changed over the years. They forget about it till someone else acts as a mirror. I wish I can give you advice, on what to do next but I have grown and changed so much over the last 4 years, that I barely remembered it till you triggered that memory. Yeah I been there, you aren't alone Greg Want to ask me some questions?

My only advice is to live every day by itself, don't look for a direction a path, just live in the moment. You wil make your own journey. Remember though we are hear to listen to you if you need it, and to give you advice. We will read your long posts, for believe it or not we prefer the long posts with lots of detail over the short one that leaves out so much that we are confused

Feeling better?

 

[Soilwork]

I'm famous here for saying that I think Christianity is a mental illness.

So maybe you might wanna put me on ignore like a lot of people here and pretend I dont' exist.

But if not... I have this to say.

You need to really examine why you believe what you believe.

is it that other humans on this plane of ecistence have told you what to believe or do you really believe it?

your faith is your own, so I can't tell you how to feel. Fancy that.

but in the end, you also know that your being gay feels natural.. it feels right.. it feels true.

Sorry, but my understanding of God is that he doesn't make mistakes, so if he made you... you've gotta be what he wanted you to be all along.

 

[luminum]

Greg, all of those things were absolved from the bible, polyblends and homosexuality included.

People who say those things do know what they're talking about. Some don't, but others do and they have been taught about it just as some people who condemn homosexuality know what they're talking about and others don't.

It breaks my heart to read this, since it's an unfair world that would tell you that you're allowed to feel attracted towards a man and love him, but not allowed to ever express that love.

I would suggest that you talk to someone who does know the Bible and also feels that homosexuality is okay and maybe that will give you some good perspective.

Otherwise, if you want to be gay but don't want to ever express that you're going to be fighting a long and difficult battle and you'll lose and only feel guilty about it for the rest of your life.

I believe that since Christ absolved us of the laws of the Old Testament, that all the laws in Leviticus including banning cloven animals, polyblends, divorce, mentruative purity, birhting purity, and homosexuality, no longer apply to us. Christ wants us to love God and ourselves first and part of that is accepting yourself and keeping God in your heart. To me, denying that part of yourself, denying the feelings you have, the love you have to give, and the means of expressing it is denying what God has given you.

Because God has given you happiness, so why do so many people willingly choose to live lives of sadness and isolation? Why would God put you on earth to be unhappy?

But all of this is something you have to swamp through yourself and ask yourself. You have to come to your own conclusions.

Your aunt may get into religious debates with her family, but that's because she has her beliefs and she may not feel like her family loves her because they can't be happy for her. But I bet you that she is happy being at peace with herself and with God or whatever she believes and she tries to give that peace to your family by trying to show them how she found it. I bet you it outweighs the debates she has with her family. And I bet you she feels more at peace with herself and with God than she would constantly trying not to do something that was an innate part of herself and failing and feeling guilty for doing things that other people are allowed to do and to feel with the ones they love.

And while God may put us through challenges we are meant to get through, be sure that you consider whether or not being gay and being at peace with yourself and working with your family through it is the challenge, not denying and repressing it. Could God be trying to challenge you to love yourself and accept yourself, despite how your family may feel?

God may answer, but how will you know if telling you it's wrong is just what other people have led you to believe? If you feel it's right, is it God?

I can tell you that the struggle for me to be happy and accepting of who I was and to embrace who I was and to be that person in the face of disapproving family and people was a challenge. But that challenge, if you believe it, was placed there by God to see if I could be strong enough to live my life with peace and serentiy, even if it meant that other people would scorn me. To see if I had the courage to be who I was, and not hide from what God had made me.

But it looks like you have a lot of searching to do. And when God gives you an answer one day, as I know He should, I hope that you will be able to accept that message and be as happy as He wants you to be and to love like He wants you to love. Because what could you have done that was so sinful that you would have felt that the Red Power Ranger was cute in your childhood because 'Satan' had inflicted it upon you?

But be well,a nd choose what will make you happy, because that's all that God can ask of you and wants for you as His most beloved creature.

And it's also true that the only way you can truly know what you believe is to ask why you believe it. Is it because you have been taught to believe it? And take some time to doubt everything so that you can decide exactly what it is you really DO believe. Only then will your faith in what you truly believe be stronger.

 

[Chevyguy723]

to screwnutty, God hasn't forgiven Satan because u have to ask for forgiveness, that is the whole point, and Satan doesn't want to be forgiven. very simple

to roland, i don't think i was referring to the King James version, i just said it in the words i remember, whatever "it" was. i do agree with u though that the King James version is less accurate. they have found copies of different books of the Bible that are the same as the Bible now. and the fact is (i learned this is my apologetics class: a class about defending the faith with scientific means) we believe everything that ppl like Aristotle and the like wrote, we don't doubt what historical ppl said about science and egypt or anything like that, but the truth is, out of all the famous books written by those ppl, we know when they were first written from the dates in them, we have found full copies of the Bible dating closer to its time of writing than any other book, so i don't believe the telephone theory that so many ppl say. if u really knew how many things had to be done in order to copy the Bible, u wouldn't either. they didn't copy the words, they copied it in charts and sections and boxes and stuff, so they wouldn't make mistakes, they didn't copy it as a written word, more as a chart. also only certain ppl could copy it and they spent their lives doing it, and on and on. the telephone idea that it changes from mouth to mouth is not true because they soon had ways to copy it with a machine that just copied it as a page.

i really think its funny about that picture in the post, it says that the Bible has a content advisory, like u shouldn't read it, or warning, about homosexuality, u probably shouldn't post that here since u think the Bible is wrong, y be mad that it advocates (fights FOR) homosexuality.

not sure if i'm feeling any better...need time

 

[Chevyguy723]

i just read the post by luminum. i really liked what u said. u and soilwork both said do i believe what i believe because someone told me to, or because i do.

i believe it because its what i feel is from God. i worship on my own and pray and spend time with God and i know what i believe is real. just like someone who sees a funny movie laughs, or someone who sees a horror movie is scared, or someone who sees a sad movie cries, i feel God and he is real to me. I can't make someone believe God is real, and i can't tell u how it feels to worship and feel God and just start crying for no reason other than i know i am connecting with God. like, even when i am just in my room alot, and singing worship songs, i sometimes stand up and raise my hands and just cry out for more of God in my life. something i say alot is that i want to see the world through God's eyes. i want to be able to see everyone as a wonderful creaton and be able to forgive everyone and love, but its hard sometimes when ppl are just so mean, u know?

I know in my heart that God is real because of things i have seen, and fealt, and dreamed, and gotten through, things that i can't do on my own, God has helped me. I really want ppl to know that I believe in God because of my own choice, not because of what i have been taught. Some things i believe different from my family and church, and i let them know that. I have told them i think this and not that, and they just agree to disagree, i'm not some person who has no mind of their own, if u met me u would learn that very quickly.

But thank u so much luminum, u kinda sounded like a pastor.

And i don't know if i feel being gay is right or not, that's the thing.

God put men on earth to be fruitful and multiply, and to worship him and yes, to be happy. my true happiness, not happiness from a situation or item, but happiness i have even when everything in my life sucks, come from God, and i am so thankful for that.

some ppl say, how can u believe in God. i think that if i didn't believe in God i would be alot worse off than i am now, i am so blessed with everything in my life and here in tampa i notice it alot more. there are so many homeless ppl down here and i don't know what i would do if that was me.

anyways, soilwork i do believe it because i choose to and because its what I believe. i know God doesn't make mistakes, but man does. and my parents could have made a big one, ME. lol, just kidding that sounds bad. i know i'm not a mistake, i'm not that confused.

the thing about my aunt and why she argues alot is MUCH less that she's gay, but more that she's stubborn. even about politics or anything, she has her view and she isn't gonna budge. but i do doubt the validity of where she gets some of her info, like television specials about homosexuality: most of this can't be trusted because they will say whatever gets them the best ratings and such.

Thanks alot ppl, keep talking about this with me, its helping.

 

[tallguy297]

Hey Greg,

Mate as long as there are 2 people around with different points of view there is always going to be an argument...and religion is the best or worst place to start one - and always the argument will be over each others interpretation of an issue... you only have to look at the current enviromental debate to see how 2 sides can so openly oppose each other and yet both will use the same facts and stats to prove their points! I admire your conviction and your beliefs...and I sympathize with your confusion.

Look mate, I'm no historian but I have always had a fascination with the bible and how it was created. A good mate of mine is a Christadelphian ( i think thats how you spell it) and his beliefs are that the bible has to be taken literally - word for word. No pastors or priests...just the word of the bible. Another friend of mine is a member of a very strict church and she also believes in the bible in a very literal context. Both believed being gay was evil. I have come out to both of these friends....

Mate when you look back ins history at how the bible was developed you will find its all the work of man. Stories that became gospels were written in most cases decades or even centuries later by men who had never seen or known Christ. These were stories passed down from person to person...all open to interpretation. There were far more scriptures than we have in the bible today...

When the emperor Constantine accepted Christianity - remember there was a huge period of time where being Christian was wrong and evil - society believed that Christians should have been outcast and killed (sound familiar?) - there were so many different sects of Christianity that he set out to create one set of rules or teachings - what became our bible.

In what became the early Catholic church, priests were summonsed from many different sects and parishes - all of whom used different scriptures and interpreted them all differently - these were really independent outreaches all preaching Christianity in their own way with their own teachings - and they differed wildly from each other...yet they were all of the same man....

So here was a Roman leader who knew he had to get some order into this religion...so it could be controlled. So he chose a select few priests and set them to work. To sift through the hundreds of writings to create the bible. Scriptures were cast out because they duplicated others, contradicted others, gave different view points of the same story or just didnt fit what these priests believed. Greg...the writings were chosen by man. Interpreted by man. Men who had their own perspectives and beliefs...and sadly agendas.

The end result is our bible...an amazing collection of writings that combine to help us shape our lives and the world we live in.

It gives us a broad and clear picture on how we are supposed to live our lives. To be good people. To help, love and respect others. To treat others as how we want to be treated. To be kind and giving of ourselves and expect nothing in return. Thats the big picture. If you belive and live by this basic philosophy then you have done what you have been asked.

And you have. You have an accepting kind and loving attitude. you respect and value others. you question and think about your place but do so in a way that shows decency and respect.

The words of the bible have been twisted and turned, watered down and exagerated, spiced up and dumbed down depending on who was reading or compiling them. They have been interpreted at every stage by man, when they were written, complied, taught and preached. Think about the many different people in your life who have "taught" you the bible - priests, teachers, parents...and all will have their own slight pitch on what they read...and now so will you.

The old saying Greg - the devil is in the detail - may just have some truth here. People can extract single lines and verse all they like. And all they do is miss the point. By creating division and hate they simply defy everything the bible was trying to teach them. To be good people and accepting of others. This debate is more about who reads the words not the words themselves.

Ask yourself this mate...have you treated others well? Have you lived your life doing the best you can to be the person that you think God wants you to be? Is he not about inclusion not exclusion? That anyone who seeks him shall find him? Then surely whether or not you are gay is irrelevant. Dont miss the big picture here Greg.

And for the record...both of the friends that I told have accepted me and respect me. They have had to challenge their beliefs and question what they were told. I hated telling them and hated hurting them - I love both of them dearly and value them because of what they have had to do to accept me into their lives. They are concerned for me and care for me...and I for them. They are special people who I have had to believe have accepted the big picture...not lose sight of the basic principles of being Christian.

You owe yourself the right to open your eyes and make up your own mind on what you believe that God wants for you - find as much information as you can from as many people as you dare. They will all offer you different points of view is my bet. Seek out gay friendly priests and pastors who can give you another perspective on this debate - and try to see the big picture. You can serve better being the real open honest you...with your values and integrity in tact and allowing you to be the best person you can be - gay or not.

Good luck with your search mate - you deserve happiness and the comfort of your beliefs.

 

[mexamor]

Greg, thank you for your words. You are a beautifull person, I can tell by your words. I too believe in a conservative religion. I believe in Heavenly Father and in his son Jesus Christ. I also know I am gay. I happen to be married, I came out to my wife 2-3 years ago. I got married because like you I thought there was something wrong with who I was. I then spent my life trying to be someone I was not.

It is unfair to my wife that I have done so much self deception and of all the sins I have ever committed in my life I think that is the biggest one and the one I will have to answer for the most. I do not regret having children, nor having a great friend in my wife, I do however, regret my dishonesty with myself, with her and with God.

You don't have to have sex to be gay. My only suggestion to you, and I don't really feel qualified, is to be honest at all times, with yourself and others. If you are gay Greg, it isn't going to change, no matter how much you repent, pray or otherwise. I know, I have been dealing with this for a while and I have been really pissed at God for not changing me. I have fasted, I have prayed, I have exercised faith in Jesus, I have tried very hard to serve others and forget myself, I have read the scriptures daily (still do) I have confessed.

One day I had a blessing and god told me he loved me and that I was gay. I just have a hard time figuing out where to go from here. If I had done this at your age and not lied to myself I would have been infinitly better off and so too my wife. In the end Greg we have to deal with the cards we are delt. How you react is more important than the deck of cards you have. God loves you and he made you. Being gay is not something you can choose. Ask one of your very str8 friends if they can imagine having sex with a guy and they will say ewwwwwww! because they have no sexual attraction whatsoever, and contrary to popular belief they never will, even if they tried. Women however, are thought to go through waves, where they can move in or out. Guys are hardwired. We are who we are.

Remember the two great commandments-"Love thy God with all thy heart, might, mind and soul, and the other is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, upon these all the prophets and the scriptures hang"

Good luck to you.

P.S. Soilwork sometimes I agree with you, I wonder if I have a mental illness. (ok, so I do, I'm bipolar, but I mean what you were talking about)