On Topic Discussion Being Out and Proud offers little in return

[Telstra]

Um... honey? JayQueer is (I assume) white and posts a lot of racist, anti-black threads.

But thanks for playing.

JayQueer is white?
I'm confused now. He said he is a fat Indian (not American indian but indian indian born in the US)

 

[Soilwork]

I don't find Michael Sam a good example. If he weren't gay he'd just be unemployed instead of being on dancing with the stars and getting a show on OWN

well I'm not sure that's fair. If he were straight he'd just be another guy who didn't make the NFL, but to say he'd be unemployed is pretty unfair. He does have a degree from Missouri State in P&R and Tourism. So... he's a park ranger... which... I mean there's a porn movie right there.

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JayQueer is white?
I'm confused now. He said he is a fat Indian (not American indian but indian indian born in the US)

I he?

Meh, I don't pay enough attention to his racist, homophobic, neo-con bullshit to know. Either way, he's made it more than clear that he's a racist who hates black people.

 

[-Kane-]

his last post was in this thread and it was the one where he tried (unsuccessfully) to come back at me with the "you make porn, you live in a subculture, I would never take your advice, you don't live in the real world, I have real problems..
And I personally won't miss him but if he wants to maybe try to deal with his issues, I'd be happy to have him back.

Um... honey? JayQueer is (I assume) white and posts a lot of racist, anti-black threads.

But thanks for playing.

Despite your claims of being a happily adjusted homosexual who lives in this wonderland of gayness, you appear perpetually angry. You're LOUD, incessant, and unnecessarily rude. Nothing you've offered has been helpful to the topic being discussed here. So I have little choice but to label you as a Refined Troll.

Your trolling is no longer welcomed here.

 

[Soilwork]

Despite your claims of being a happily adjusted homosexual who lives in this wonderland of gayness, you appear perpetually angry. You're LOUD, incessant, and unnecessarily rude. Nothing you've offered has been helpful to the topic being discussed here. So I have little choice but to label you as a Refined Troll.

Your trolling is no longer welcomed here.

Got it... so... because my existence on this earth proves your whiney opening post is mostly bullshit and your attack on me is totally unwarranted... you're butthurt.

join the club, bud, many people get very upset when called out on their bullshit.

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BTW, Kane.. since you're back... I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you mean by telling me I "live in a gay bubble."

 

[-Kane-]

Got it... so... because my existence on this earth proves your whiney opening post is mostly bullshit and your attack on me is totally unwarranted... you're butthurt.

join the club, bud, many people get very upset when called out on their bullshit.

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BTW, Kane.. since you're back... I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you mean by telling me I "live in a gay bubble."

Again, stop your trolling and attacks or simply leave! You will not be allowed to destroy this thread with your divisive behavior.

 

[Soilwork]

Again, stop your trolling and attacks or simply leave! You will not be allowed to destroy this thread with your divisive behavior.

Oh I'm sorry... so... please explain the rules to me.


You're allowed to tell me that my experience doesn't count because of this gay bubble I live in... but you don't have to explain what that means.

and you're allowed to tell me that I "exploit" people without backing that up with anything... but I'm not allowed to defend myself.

And you're allowed to call me "troll" when I ask you to explain your attacks on me.

Anything else?

sorry... these rules are VERY hard to understand.

It must be that subculture you say I live in that makes it so hard to understand you in that "real world with real problems" you say you live in.

 

[Cormac135]

In before the lock.

 

[Soilwork]

And also... you say that I live in a "subculture" where gay guys can be friends and not have sex...

But you were saying that doesn't exist, which is why you don't want to be out.

So if I invited you to a few parties with my friends so you could make friends without having sex with them... would you want to come out then?

IT all seems like so much trouble.

 

[luckynumbah7]

What's a pillow biter?

Er, 2 possibilities here. The colloquial definition means gay man insinuated to be a bottom, but the way he's using it I suspect he means loud, probably feminine screaming during sex unless gagged with said pillow.

-nvm, read that wrong, definitely the first definition. He's saying everyone JQ knows in RL already knows he's gay so why bother.

 

[Soilwork]

I'm sure it's easy to be a gay pornographer because no one cares, but there are a lot of professions where they actually care. NFL is one of them.

in my defense, I worked at a corporate purchasing job before I went into porn. I was the only gay man at my office and while I DID have to work a bit harder to prove myself and make personal bonds with everyone there... I did it. And they respected me for it.

 

[IamNoah]

I speak of United States. I think gay culture, the gay community, whatever we're to call this collective is a series of problematic spaces particularly around race and gender (gender here is being used in an imprecise and mostly inaccurate way, I mean masculinity/femininity). There is no reason related to these white supremacist, masculinist spaces for anyone to come out and attempt to join this community (culture and community are both problematic terms as applied to gay maledom, but there is some use in them), but there are other reasons, particularly things like providing the aid and comfort to young gay men of color they are almost certainly not going to find in most gay male spaces, or if the men we are speaking of happen to be black the homophobic world of unlettered, black, low church Protestant howling and ranting about Adam and Steve, Leviticus, Genesis, etc.

Gay culture is racist, fundamentally so. Being out, however, is good, not at all because of what one is apt to receive from most (read white) gay men as a collective (anything from sexual rejection in explicitly racial terms, being someone's fetish, actual and overt hostility, invisibility, etc, etc). But because of what one can give to young gay men of color (even if that color is white) by positioning oneself as out, accessible, happy, proud, etc.

 

[Soilwork]

Gay culture is racist, fundamentally so.

I totally disagree with this. Maybe the places you've gone are... I can't speak to your experience. But the bar I mostly hang out at has a VERY racially mixed group and everyone parties with everyone. My husband isn't white.

I belong to two community action groups and they're both very diverse racially and have trans members.

Maybe you're just not looking in the right places or need better taste in friends.

 

[-Kane-]

Gay culture is racist, fundamentally so. Being out, however, is good, not at all because of what one is apt to receive from most (read white) gay men as a collective (anything from sexual rejection in explicitly racial terms, being someone's fetish, actual and overt hostility, invisibility, etc, etc). But because of what one can give to young gay men of color (even if that color is white) by positioning oneself as out, accessible, happy, proud, etc.

Good point! But while being out can serve to help those who come behind me, doing so requires a bit of martyrdom I'm not sure I can afford.

 

[Soilwork]

Good point! But while being out can serve to help those who come behind me, doing so requires a bit of martyrdom I'm not sure I can afford.

I was a gay guy in a remote farming village in the 80s. Yeah, I got called names, yeah, I had to learn to fight. Yeah, there were times it sucked.

It was still better than the alternative.

 

[-Kane-]

I totally disagree with this. Maybe the places you've gone are... I can't speak to your experience. But the bar I mostly hang out at has a VERY racially mixed group and everyone parties with everyone. My husband isn't white.

I belong to two community action groups and they're both very diverse racially and have trans members.

Maybe you're just not looking in the right places or need better taste in friends.

Yet again another anecdote from your fucking wonderland of the perfect gay life. Where roses grow in the winter and farts smell like potpourri. Dude I've had it with you!! Is it possible that gay men of color walk in shoes that aren't made for your size? What's so hard for you to comprehend??!!

 

[Soilwork]

Yet again another anecdote from your fucking wonderland of the perfect gay life. Where roses grow in the winter and farts smell like potpourri. Dude I've had it with you!! Is it possible that gay men of color walk in shoes that aren't made for your size? What's so hard for you to comprehend??!!

OR... is it possible that my friends who aren't white didn't sit at home complaining about how everyone else had a life but getting one for themselves was just too hard?

You think it was easy for a short, pock-marked guy with facial paralysis like me to find a place? Well..oddly enough, it was. I just had to look for it. And it wasn't at my home after I posted on the internet about how unfair life is.

 

[bankside]

Yet again another anecdote from your fucking wonderland of the perfect gay life. Where roses grow in the winter and farts smell like potpourri. Dude I've had it with you!! Is it possible that gay men of color walk in shoes that aren't made for your size? What's so hard for you to comprehend??!!

If he is working together in community groups with gay people who aren't white, with people who are no longer in the bodies they were born with, if he's socializing at clubs that welcome all kinds of people regardless of colour, and if he's with a guy who is not white....why should he deny the experience of community he shares with people of colour simply because you say it's not possible?

Also, of course he's loud and rude and bombastic. He's making a point.

 

[Soilwork]

(btw... my face is 1/4 paralyzed which explains what you call the "constipated look" on my face. Yeah, it sucks, but meh... if life was easy, everybody would have one.)

 

[zombiekiller]

in my defense, I worked at a corporate purchasing job before I went into porn. I was the only gay man at my office and while I DID have to work a bit harder to prove myself and make personal bonds with everyone there... I did it. And they respected me for it.

I didn't mean any disrespect.

I was just saying that everyone's life experiences are different. I'm sure there are plenty of out and proud successful people in my profession. But after having been screwed over before for just being out, I'd rather be careful and be safe. I ain't risking everything just to be out and proud. I ain't getting screwed again over some ideology.

You've been successful being out and proud, and god bless you for it. Michael Sam and me are proof that it ain't perfect for everyone. You know how devastating it was to be convinced that I was not good enough? It was even worse when I finally figured out what had been done to me. I'm not going through that again. I'd rather be a coward than homeless.

 

[IamNoah]

I totally disagree with this. Maybe the places you've gone are... I can't speak to your experience. But the bar I mostly hang out at has a VERY racially mixed group and everyone parties with everyone. My husband isn't white.

I belong to two community action groups and they're both very diverse racially and have trans members.

Maybe you're just not looking in the right places or need better taste in friends.

I disagree with you. Vehemently. And will ignore your weird personalization and anecdotes here. I have no response to them.

I will say, however, that the spaces I move in are almost entirely affluent and white. I find relatively few spaces that do not fit this description comfortable. But I do not speak of the ephemera of personal experiences--which excepting a very rough period of time in my late teens has not been particularly unpleasant.

Please do not diagnose me as needing better taste in friends or not looking in the right places because I disagree with you. Otherwise I might be tempted to use you as a proxy for persons you oughtn't serve as a proxy for.

I've tried to be very careful in this response.