On Topic Discussion Being Out and Proud offers little in return

[StandAlone2323]

Surely being both black and gay must pose some unique challenges, which (as a white man) I will never understand, but I don't understand why you are so self loathing. Happiness stems from within, no? From the way it sounds, I'm guessing you don't know very many gay people. I have loads of gay friends who I've never had sex with. Even after long nights of drinking with friends, I've crashed on friends' couches and vice-versa without sex ever being an option. I think your view is a bit warped in that regard. I also don't understand your position on gay relationships.

However I get being an "ambiguous gay male." I have lived a large part of my adult life in east Asia where being out isn't yet "in," so I suppose I can sympathize. That being said, I barely have to energy to stay "ambiguously gay" in only that part of my life. You might find that "normal" gay people are more common than you think.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

It's harder to find them when you have a lot of hate/anger like the OP does.

I would just like to state that this is not the impression that I get from Kane's post. Nor in his other participations in HT.

You need to read more of his posts then.

The original post is just a bitter rant making sweeping inaccurate generalizations.

If Kane wants to live that way, that's his choice. No sympathy because that is how he has chosen to shape his personal worldview.

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

Oh. Well, hearing that Kane is angry about race - again - leave me with little to offer.

Sorry that when you give off a bad aura, you get back the bad luck in friendships, relationships, race relations, sense of community, etc? You should try to focus on... anything else. What actually brings you joy?

 

[G-Lexington]

I dunno. I had Thanksgiving dinner with my family, and will have Christmas with them too. My partner attended the former and will attend the latter. He's in the mix for the "draw" for Christmas gifts. (He's buying for my father, and my sister-in-law is buying for him.) He's asked to make the dinner this year, too. I have no idea if that holiday is "heterosexual" or not - is it gay by virtue of me being there? Or am I conforming to what straights want me to do? If so, I can't say as I feel any pressure. It's always a happy family get-together, and two of the participants are homosexual, so call that what you want.

And I've got plenty of gay friends I've never slept with, nor have any interest in doing so. Just met them in the natural coursee of living my life. Some I met at "gay things" (two I met at Gay Pride events, for instance), and others elsewhere. I'm often told how amazingly unusual this is, but t certainly didn't seem unusual. Then or now.

But who among you can argue against what has been said?

One can't argue "this is how it's been with me" and "this is how I see it". I can only tell you how it is with me. Being out has been fucking awesome for me, but I'm well aware it won't be for everyone

Lex

 

[nyctopgam]

Racism is practiced among gay whites as freely as it is among their heterosexual counterparts..

Yes, not just racism but also the misogyny and the conservative class character of the larger population. And why should that be surprising since the cultural conditioning is the same?

I do however think that gay pride has been replaced by the drive to adopt adapt and fit into hetero lifestyles and institutions. I see it's part of the struggle, taking gay marriage as an issue in point.

And when I see it accompanied by, say, anti Trans sentiment, glorification of Monday night football, and slut-shaming, I wonder if gay pride has very much more meaning at all as American conservatism rises across the board.

I see more shame than pride.

 

[TheLoveableLoner]

^ Preach !!!

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

Yes, not just racism but also the misogyny and the conservative class character of the larger population. And why should that be surprising since the cultural conditioning is the same?

I do however think that gay pride has been replaced by the drive to adopt adapt and fit into hetero lifestyles and institutions. I see it's part of the struggle, taking gay marriage as an issue in point.

And when I see it accompanied by, say, anti Trans sentiment, glorification of Monday night football, and slut-shaming, I wonder if gay pride has very much more meaning at all as American conservatism rises across the board.

I see more shame than pride.

Congratulations your post is more whacked out then the op and thats hard to do. Shameful you to mention "lifestyles" again, but this time hetro. I don't think many agree that either gay or straight is a lifestyle, your bigotry shows.

Fitting in and being accepting is fine with me if it means I can hang out with my friends straight or gay at a club and jam with the same music we all like as a life style choice. Unlike being assigned the dull drag queen Queer as fuck bars/clubs with the token Dyke folk band on Tuesday night.

You don't want to get married well fuck don't thats a life style choice. But why should Gay people not be offered the same bene as a straight couple. Shit we pay taxes , may never have kids but have no problem paying our real estate taxes which fund schools. Even if we live in the has been gay ghetto like the village. Maybe I want to live somewhere else without fear of being smacked around or burned out?
Why should I not be able to collect my lovers Social Security when they die like a straight spouse, causing a huge change in income during my elder yrs maybe and loss of my "life style"?
I've seen a long time lower income couple, together longer then the majority of legally married couples health decline and one died. The partner couldn't of course collect the measly $255 bills to help bury the most important person in their life.

I have some friends that go to the gay catholic church. Church ain't my thing in the first case but wtf!!! Thats a fucking life style church cause if they went to a real catholic church they still would be gay. If a straight goes to the gay catholic church, chances are they won't be sucking cock like some of the gay guys do after the service in the parking lot! But the whole thing is ridiculous because gays are not acclimated into the real church in the first place. So there gay catholic church is total bullshit from the get go.
I think they have similar opinions as you.

 

[nyctopgam]

^ Quod erat drmonstrandum.

 

[Nishin]

For most of my adult life, I've lived as an "Ambiguous gay male".
If you are a heterosexual, for you, the application of that term should be as follows:

"If you don't ask, I won't tell. Nor will I attempt to confirm
the obvious as it exists through your plain of view."

And while I am far from a self loathing closeted gay man, I'm not necessarily out and proud neither. And why should I be? What does the "gay community have to offer a young man of color anyway?" From where I sit, the "gay community" doesn't look all that appealing. Especially if you're a Black American. Even among gay Blacks in America, there is a psychological dysfunction that exist. So how can one find refuge in a broken community? Friendships among gays are forged through the "gay handshake" which means "sex first and we'll take it from there." How is that healthy? Racism is practiced among gay whites as freely as it is among their heterosexual counterparts. And dating and relationships exist only if you believe in unicorns. I'm aware that I may seem bitter and perhaps jaded. But who among you can argue against what has been said? Yes, the holidays are upon us and maybe I'm sick of hearing about how my coworkers will be spending their very HETEROSEXUAL holidays with family and friends. But regardless of my rationale, the gay lifestyle still offers very little in terms of feeling good about yourself, and (ironically) feeling proud of anything "gay".

You don't have to rely on others or their perception of you to understand your self value and pride.

That you don't feel comfortable with your perception of what the gay community is... fine, no-one's telling you you should embrace any given community in its entirety just because it seems mandatory/appropriate because of who you are, but things rarely get changed from the outside do they?
Rather than questioning what the community can bring you, how about considering what you can bring it? Only from your own actions can you develop a feeling of pride for what you are/do.

In my own case I do not frequent the gay community much as I also tend to have a negative view of it based on the feeling of unbelonging I feel when I hit the bars... but I am also in contact with the gay community through my work and appreciate a completely different side of it (except for the wittiness that seems inherent to most gays and that I do not possess...). This is quite cliché but this reminds me to try and not judge things by what they merely look like before giving them a chance... as I wouldn't appreciate done upon myself.

 

[nyctopgam]

^ Quod erat demonstrandum.

 

[nyctopgam]

Sorry that was a double post - but with typo corrected

 

[-Kane-]

Did anyone else notice it was the Black Gays of Jub who pounced on this thread with their cynicism? Instead of finding kinship or offering support, they attacked and mocked! One of many examples of my growing discontent with the gay lifestyle.

 

[justaguy]

Yes, not just racism but also the misogyny

I've learned recently on here that some gay men confuse misogyny with the fact that some men can't love a woman sexually or emotionally and express such.
Anyway, back to topic, -Kane- I understand where you're coming from.

 

[hotatlboi]

Did anyone else notice it was the Black Gays of Jub who pounced on this thread with their cynicism? Instead of finding kinship or offering support, they attacked and mocked! One of many examples of my growing discontent with the gay lifestyle.

The gay lifestyle?

 

[-Kane-]

The gay lifestyle?

Lifestyle:

Noun

1. the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group.

 

[TheLoveableLoner]

The only thing that "constitutes the mode" of being a gay is liking the same gender.

The rest is up for you to define.

 

[altlover85]

Lifestyle:

Noun

1. the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group.

Please tell me that you know as well as I do that people have used the term "gay lifestyle" as a pejorative to make gay people feel "less than" and make being gay seem like something that is unimportant and should be kept hidden.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

Did anyone else notice it was the Black Gays of Jub who pounced on this thread with their cynicism? Instead of finding kinship or offering support, they attacked and mocked! One of many examples of my growing discontent with the gay lifestyle.

Bish plz. No one has time for your trifling self.

You need more positivity in your life and optimism and maybe better things will happen to you.

Don't expect the people you insult on this board to give you sympathy cards. Doesn't matter if you are gay or straight. The way people react to you is often determined by what you put out.

 

[G-Lexington]

Did anyone else notice it was the Black Gays of Jub who pounced on this thread with their cynicism? Instead of finding kinship or offering support, they attacked and mocked! One of many examples of my growing discontent with the gay lifestyle.

Maybe they're the only ones who feel on firm enough footing to answer you direct. Lord knows if a gay friend on FB talked about "how gay is", I'd feel more sturdy answering than my straight friends would.

Lex

 

[goldenmoth]

You raise some interesting points Kane and I don't have an answer for you to all of your complaints.

Is it comforting to know being straight isn't exactly heaps of fun either? They avoid prejudice and do the family thing yeah but they never seem quite happy nor are they really allowed to enjoy the things they want to enjoy.

I'm definitely glad I'm gay