Being pozzed?

[roadtripboy]

ok

bottom line

Bug chasing is as equally dumb as it would be to sign up for diabetes, or lung cancer.

It is idiotic on so many levels that IF the idiocy needs to be pointed out to you, and you can't just see it for yourself, then even talking to you is a waste of time.

The plague continues for the actions of people like this, either ignorant or willfully self hating, these are the people that ensure aids will be in the world of our grand children.

I hope the way it felt popping your nut is worth all that. IF you do? you are the only one.

I guess at the end its all about the selfish pursuit of a desire to the point of self destruction. That sounds a lot like an addict to me.

Get therapy.

I wasn't going to post on this thread. But, I'd like to second this post.

 

[rawTOP]

ok

bottom line

Bug chasing is as equally dumb as it would be to sign up for diabetes, or lung cancer.

I guess at the end its all about the selfish pursuit of a desire to the point of self destruction. That sounds a lot like an addict to me.

Get therapy.

The correlation with diabetes and lung cancer is actually pretty good. Type 2 diabetes is often the result of a bad diet. Lung cancer is often the result of smoking. The difference is both are generally tolerated (though smoking is getting more and more regulated).

My question is - you equally caustic in your remarks to smokers and over-eaters? If not, why?

BTW, have you seen the movie "Thank You For Smoking"? It's actually pretty appropriate to this discussion - and completely hilarious.

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

My question is - you equally caustic in your remarks to smokers and over-eaters? If not, why?

I know this wasn't for me, but I can tell you, having had the rare feat of having family members that have died of all three causes, i'm equally as apathetic to all if, and only if, it was their chosen way to die(they chose to overeat and not correct it, smoke and not quit, or share needles and not clean them, as the case was).

Still, that doesn't make it any more confusing for people that see it as preventable, yet you choose to look for it anyway. I know you have a clear bias on the issue(and i'm clearly not going to convince you that what you do in your bed is either right or wrong; I can't pretend to care), but sometimes you gotta look outside of yourself. And, looking outside of yourself doesn't mean being some sort of net nanny about it either - that whole waving your finger in the face mentality is kinda irksome as well.

All this, however, will not stop me from eating candy and drinking soda(not that I do so to excess), dating smokers, and so on and so forth. I just know you can't have it both ways, and I deal.

As for the original question? No, I have never thought about it and don't seek it, won't date someone that does either.

 

[undisclosed1234]

Some people prefer long dull lives. Other people prefer shorter lives with more excitement. Whether it's smoking or over eating or risky sex - people engage in life-shortening activities because they enjoy them.



How do you think those people you know and love became poz?

Now I go back to the fact that, of the people who become poz, I respect bug chasers - they looked honestly at their life and made an informed decision that was right for them. They didn't pretend they could stay neg.

So my point is that your friend became poz through the same sex act as the bug chaser. It's just for the bug chaser it was an informed conscious decision. If you can love the person who ignored reality, why can't you love the one who was honest about their sex life?

Or lets look at the stigma another way... Smoking kills 5 times more gay guys than HIV does. Yet there's probably 100 times more hostility towards barebacking than smoking. The only explanation I see for that discrepancy bigotry/stigma. People know HIV isn't really a killer anymore, but they persist in talking about it as if it were a killer. If there were no stigma/hostility/hatred of poz guys then you'd be more upset about smoking than you are barebacking. Or maybe you're just homophobic. I honestly believe a lot of gay guys sub-consciously hold onto the homophobia they were taught as kids - they think gay sex is just generally "dirty" and evil so they strive to prove themselves wrong by mimicking heterosexual norms... Whatever the source, there's stigma...

That was....profoundly stupid peaking at the HIV/smoking analogy (smoking isn't a virus, guy) but if you're happy, good for you. I still think you're a stain on humanity based on what I know but yknow to each his own. Plenty of stains around.

 

[BostonPirate]

The correlation with diabetes and lung cancer is actually pretty good. Type 2 diabetes is often the result of a bad diet. Lung cancer is often the result of smoking. The difference is both are generally tolerated (though smoking is getting more and more regulated).

My question is - you equally caustic in your remarks to smokers and over-eaters? If not, why?

BTW, have you seen the movie "Thank You For Smoking"? It's actually pretty appropriate to this discussion - and completely hilarious.

start a thread on it.

this one is about bug chasing and what it really is.

 

[RaKroma]

If there were no stigma/hostility/hatred of poz guys then you'd be more upset about smoking than you are barebacking. Or maybe you're just homophobic. I honestly believe a lot of gay guys sub-consciously hold onto the homophobia they were taught as kids - they think gay sex is just generally "dirty" and evil so they strive to prove themselves wrong by mimicking heterosexual norms... Whatever the source, there's stigma...

What exactly is so "heterosexual" about people shunning the idea of getting HIV/AIDS on purpose? I didn't know being a good gay guy is condoning every reckless lifestyle and choices that people make, or otherwise you fall into the category of self hating gay who wants to live by "heterosexual norms."

P.S. I honestly think that subconsciously every bug chaser really wants to be straight and mimics heterosexual norms when it comes to sex. Deep inside they want to be "normal" like a woman who wants her husband's cum and make a baby or like a straight male who wants to procreate, but they forget that cum in buttholes doesn't do anything but spread diseases.

 

[MoltenRock III]

It's their body, it's their choice...

With insurance companies and taxpayers picking up the $50,000+ per annum healthcare / drug costs.

I know 8 HIV+ guys. All 8 of them wish to hell they'd have used protection. They were "in the moment" and horny, and came to regret it with their shortened, and more difficult lives.

Diabetes is not a death sentence. How many want to go "bug chasing" for it?

 

[blondelad0]

What exactly is so "heterosexual" about people shunning the idea of getting HIV/AIDS on purpose? I didn't know being a good gay guy is condoning every reckless lifestyle and choices that people make, or otherwise you fall into the category of self hating gay who wants to live by "heterosexual norms."

P.S. I honestly think that subconsciously every bug chaser really wants to be straight and mimics heterosexual norms when it comes to sex. Deep inside they want to be "normal" like a woman who wants her husband's cum and make a baby or like a straight male who wants to procreate, but they forget that cum in buttholes doesn't do anything but spread diseases.

Connecting unprotected sex with multiple partners as a "straight attitude" is stupid, and backward thinking, I can honestly say ive no desire to mimic heterosexual norms, the heterosexual community to me looks stifling, judgemental, and oppressed. The vast ammount of straight men are too conserned about looking gay than is healthy for them. I pitty the straight community, there opressed, paranoid, and fearfull. I wake up every day and jump for joy that I am a gay man, and I embrace the gay life style.

your finger at adults who engage in consentual sex makes you just as narrow minded as those straight people, more so infact.

 

[MoltenRock III]

Additionally, barebacking is great fun, and feels amazing. But it only is that way when you are having sex with a committed partner that you've swapped tests with, and the only unprotected sex you have.

Feeling a "need" to run out and get it, or willingly infesting yourself with the bug is a mental illness. If you are thinking this way, you need to get professional mental help. Do yourself a favor.

 

[quasar]

I've had a couple of comments and questions asking why this isn't in fetish. Basically, we don't condone 'gifting/receiving' nor do we consider it a Fetish. We do, however, want to allow discussion. There are those who think it is a mental illness in the vein of Munhausen's Syndrome, and there are those who treat it as a Fetish due to the 'buzz' they get from it.

This is an article I found interesting while we were putting together the guidelines for the recent Fetish forum makeover. http://aids.about.com/od/safersexresources/a/barebacking.htm

It sums up by saying:
"Deliberately seeking out HIV is a practice few of us would understand. Is such a practice a cry for help, a sign of depression or just a symptom of social stigmas and prejudices? Whatever drives this practice, one thing is for certain; it helps drive the epidemic. But before we can address the issue we have to understand it."

 

[blondelad0]

With insurance companies and taxpayers picking up the $50,000+ per annum healthcare / drug costs.

I know 8 HIV+ guys. All 8 of them wish to hell they'd have used protection. They were "in the moment" and horny, and came to regret it with their shortened, and more difficult lives.

Diabetes is not a death sentence. How many want to go "bug chasing" for it?

Bug chasers dont chase diabetes, because diabetes is something you aquire through poor diet. Eating vast ammounts of fatty sugary foods isnt normaly considered sexual.

Are any of these men what you might consider bug chasers? If they are not, simply stating that you know a handfull of men who are HIV dosent hold any sugnificant meaning, infact its quite insugnificant because in your personal and professional life you might have actually come across 20+ men with HIV and not know it, any number of those could be perfectly happy individuals who havnt got any regrets about being HIV, one or two might be chasers...

 

[metta]

It is a very low self esteem issue. Self destructive behavior. And that should never be encouraged or supported, for that matter

It makes a tougher case to try to explain to people why tax dollars should go to pay for medical care for someone that went out of their way to get a disease on purpose.

 

[MoltenRock III]

From a former bugchaser, now infected at the ripe old age of 21 himself:

He now wakes up each day with a terrible frustration that’s just below the surface of his once sunny demeanor. He hates the medication he has to take every day, and he realizes that HIV affects nearly every part of his life. While he was bug chasing, Hitzel couldn’t imagine ever wanting to be in a relationship again. But now that he’s getting his life back in order, he realizes that being HIV-positive can be a roadblock to new relationships.

“Whenever I have to deal with things like medication, days when I’m really down,” Hitzel says, “I have to look myself in the mirror and say, ‘You did this. Are you happy now?’ That’s the one line that goes through my head: ‘Are you happy now?’ ” He says it with a snarl, full of anger. “Some days I feel really angry and guilty. I’m pretty much adjusted to the fact that this is my life, but about forty percent of the time I look at myself and say, ‘Look what you’ve done. Happy now?’ ”
http://www.newsrescue.com/2009/05/i...hasers-hiv-isnt-a-ruthless-killer-its-a-gift/

 

[undisclosed1234]

What exactly is so "heterosexual" about people shunning the idea of getting HIV/AIDS on purpose? I didn't know being a good gay guy is condoning every reckless lifestyle and choices that people make, or otherwise you fall into the category of self hating gay who wants to live by "heterosexual norms."

Seriously.

If getting AIDS/HIV is part of the homosexual identity open up that closet and shove me back in, with a stop at your nearest conversion clinic.

Fuck guys like that. Rawtop, people like you are the reason why AIDS is even part of the coming out conversation for so many kids out there, sitting down with their parents for that conversation.

 

[DragOneON]

Some people prefer long dull lives. Other people prefer shorter lives with more excitement. Whether it's smoking or over eating or risky sex - people engage in life-shortening activities because they enjoy them.

That is rather disingenuous. Smoking and overeating are addictions. Also, aside from what you are condoning, I don't know anyone that engages in risky sex SPECIFICALLY TO roll the dice about catching a life threatening disease. They may be a bit naive about the chances they are taking, but they aren't doing it for a rush. Maybe some are, but I would venture that number is rather low.

How do you think those people you know and love became poz?

Now I go back to the fact that, of the people who become poz, I respect bug chasers - they looked honestly at their life and made an informed decision that was right for them. They didn't pretend they could stay neg.

So my point is that your friend became poz through the same sex act as the bug chaser. It's just for the bug chaser it was an informed conscious decision. If you can love the person who ignored reality, why can't you love the one who was honest about their sex life?

There is NO comparing the two. In essence you are comparing someone who perhaps took all possible precautions to someone who takes every possible risk and calling it equal. It isn't. By that standard, EVERYONE who engages in gay sex, regardless of hiv status is the same. Only bug chasers are making an informed decision? Are you kidding me?

Or lets look at the stigma another way... Smoking kills 5 times more gay guys than HIV does. Yet there's probably 100 times more hostility towards barebacking than smoking. The only explanation I see for that discrepancy bigotry/stigma. People know HIV isn't really a killer anymore, but they persist in talking about it as if it were a killer. If there were no stigma/hostility/hatred of poz guys then you'd be more upset about smoking than you are barebacking.

I'm not going to argue addictions with you again. I also think you are 100% wrong about the stigma assigned to smoking. Why don't you poll non-smoker jubbers and ask how many of them would be willing to date a smoker? Know of any bars that ban poz? I know of tons that won't let you smoke. Lastly, I don't slam barebacking with a long term monogamous partner any more than I slam unprotected sex for any couple regardless of orientation.

Or maybe you're just homophobic. I honestly believe a lot of gay guys sub-consciously hold onto the homophobia they were taught as kids - they think gay sex is just generally "dirty" and evil so they strive to prove themselves wrong by mimicking heterosexual norms... Whatever the source, there's stigma...

How DARE you. That is quite possibly the most offensive and ignorant statement I've heard on jub in all the time I've lurked here. Let me clue you in on something. The community fought long and hard to combat the stereotype that gay sex was responsible for AIDS and that we were a menace. As if we were going out and passing it to the hetero's on purpose. Here you go OUTDOING the original slap in the face by saying that gays know they are positive, and WANT to pass on/ receive it. Do you understand the disservice you are doing to everyone in the community who fought against that? That I or my friends, or my lovers hate ourselves just because we don't approve of the spread of a potentially deadly disease with forethought? Are you fucking kidding me?

I have a friend who took every precaution. One broken rubber and he's poz. His little brother is dying from kidney failure. My friend is the closest match, but he cant donate because of his status. Do you think I berate him every goddamn day for an accident? Because he's poz?

Let me tell you how much that would change if he had "made an informed decision" to have unprotected sex with someone poz, both not only knowing full well the risks, but doing it BECAUSE of the risk. I tell you what. You PM me. I'll give him your email address, and you can talk to him about your theory. I'm 100% serious.

You think I'm a latent homophobe? Do you think I "stigmatize" poz? My wife and I BOTH belong to http://www.agapenetwork1.org.

Don't let my being bisexual distract you. As an outed bisexual I get more blame for the spread of hiv than most gays do. I'm fully accepted by few in either community.

Your bullshit in here has me floored.

 

[DrWILC]

I would be lying if I didn’t say I had never fantasized or masturbated to the thoughts of being POZzed by a super hot, furry, masculine man. I have also had those so-called “vampire dreams” but if they were real I would truly be in fear of converting into one.

I myself along with most psychologists would classify deliberately getting infected with HIV (or any terminal disease) as an attempted suicide and a call for help caused by yet another disease – depression and hormonal imbalances (to name a few).

A few years ago I assisted in the creation of a 1-hour documentary titled “The Gift” which you can watch or download off my own Internet high-speed server totally free at [Ask for URL, still under my 25 posts]

Please let me know if you have any questions or comments-

Dr.WIL

 

[ladude2011]

Some people prefer long dull lives. Other people prefer shorter lives with more excitement. Whether it's smoking or over eating or risky sex - people engage in life-shortening activities because they enjoy them.



How do you think those people you know and love became poz?

Now I go back to the fact that, of the people who become poz, I respect bug chasers - they looked honestly at their life and made an informed decision that was right for them. They didn't pretend they could stay neg.

So my point is that your friend became poz through the same sex act as the bug chaser. It's just for the bug chaser it was an informed conscious decision. If you can love the person who ignored reality, why can't you love the one who was honest about their sex life?

Or lets look at the stigma another way... Smoking kills 5 times more gay guys than HIV does. Yet there's probably 100 times more hostility towards barebacking than smoking. The only explanation I see for that discrepancy bigotry/stigma. People know HIV isn't really a killer anymore, but they persist in talking about it as if it were a killer. If there were no stigma/hostility/hatred of poz guys then you'd be more upset about smoking than you are barebacking. Or maybe you're just homophobic. I honestly believe a lot of gay guys sub-consciously hold onto the homophobia they were taught as kids - they think gay sex is just generally "dirty" and evil so they strive to prove themselves wrong by mimicking heterosexual norms... Whatever the source, there's stigma...

Rawtop, you dont seem to be making any sense. first of all, how do you who he is talking about when he says the people he loves became poz. He could be talking about men, or women, and they could have became poz in many different ways. Second, you say you respect bug chasers because they took an honest look at themselves and didnt pretend they could stay neg. OF COURSE they can stay neg. Anyone can stay neg is they practice safe sex, or abstain from sex unless they are in a commited relationship. What you really mean is that they cant control themselves and continue to have anonymous sex with stangers even though they know it poses health risks. Let's face it the people you speak of have a sex addiction, and cant stop engaging in this type of behavior. You basically just said that. As far as your comparison to smoking versus hiv, there is no comparison. You say that smoking kills more men than hiv does. Fine, lets say your right. It doesnt matter because smokers dont set out to get lung cancer when they start to smoke. They are not "chasers" of lung cancer. They smoke because they are addicted. Just like the bug chasers are addicted to sex. And anyone who can not stop doing something destructive has an addiction and needs counseling. As far as the so called stygma you speak of for hiv, you say it doesnt kill you anymore so why is it such a stygma. Well, it doesnt matter if it kills you or not, the bottom line is that it is a DISEASE. So please explain to me why anyone in his right mind would choose to go out and get a DISEASE? The people who do this are being selfish because hiv is a disease that we are trying to get under control, not make bigger. Passing it along carelessly is ridiculous. What if there was no government funding for hiv meds? What would the uninsured do then? Bottom line is that if they didnt purposely go out and get hiv they wouldnt need free meds, and that money could be spent on someone else who actually was responsible like a woman whose husband infected her without her knowing that he was cheating on her with other men. Look, I think barebacking is fun too, it feels good, but there are risks that come with it, and the bottom line is that the people on your site do not care about themselves at all because they have a fetish for hiv. They seek it out because it turns them on, and for no other reason, which is very disturbing, and there isnt anyone who can argue that.

 

[rawTOP]

That is rather disingenuous. Smoking and overeating are addictions.

Barebacking is also addictive... 84% of the guys on my site said "I can't keep away from it even when I want to"
http://www.breedingzone.com/threads/2872-Would-You-Say-Barebacking-Is-Addictive

Another poster below you mentioned sexual addiction... It can definitely be addictive. But being in a city where most people are functional alcoholics - IMHO addictive behavior is only a problem when you can't continue to function (job, relationships, etc.) When you mix barebacking with drugs it can most certainly lead to something severe enough to need professional help, but I'd say most barebackers are completely functional and their "addiction" is essentially just a hobby...

There is NO comparing the two. In essence you are comparing someone who perhaps took all possible precautions to someone who takes every possible risk and calling it equal.

No, I'm saying chances are your poz friends became poz by getting fucked bareback by a poz top. There are guys who become poz while having safe sex - I'm not denying that - what I'm saying is most of your poz friends got it by letting a poz top fuck them raw. Chances are they don't talk to you about it because they know you'll judge them. And even if they feel guilty for letting it happen, chances are they're having bareback sex with other poz guys (but that's another topic).

Let me clue you in on something. The community fought long and hard to combat the stereotype that gay sex was responsible for AIDS and that we were a menace. ... Do you understand the disservice you are doing to everyone in the community who fought against that?

By and large gay sex IS responsible for HIV/AIDS. Just look at the data. That doesn't make us monsters and it doesn't make gay sex "dirty" or evil. We're doing something that's completely normal and natural.

I have a friend who took every precaution. One broken rubber and he's poz.

Assuming your friend is telling the truth (it's a common lie, but true for a few)... What we don't talk about is that there is no such thing as safe sex with a poz top (unless he's on meds and "consistently undetectable"). Condoms fail between 5 and 10% of the time. People become poz while having safe sex. Then they have bareback sex once, test poz, and assume it they became poz because they barebacked when they actually became poz because of condom failure while having "safe" sex with a poz top.

At what point does an individual's right to freedom become second to society's right to greater public health safety?

To me people have the right to do what they want to with their own bodies. Period. I think it crosses the line when they lie to sexual partners who ask direct questions. There is no freedom to lie to someone about something that is as serious as HIV (or Hep C). But at the same time "are you clean?" is not a properly phrased question - people need to take responsibility for their own health by asking good, complete questions.

... you say you respect bug chasers because they took an honest look at themselves and didnt pretend they could stay neg. OF COURSE they can stay neg. Anyone can stay neg is they practice safe sex, or abstain from sex unless they are in a commited relationship. What you really mean is that they cant control themselves and continue to have anonymous sex with stangers even though they know it poses health risks. Let's face it the people you speak of have a sex addiction, and cant stop engaging in this type of behavior.

Guys who like anonymous sex basically see sex as a sport. It's how they want to live their lives - it gives them fulfillment. What your talking about is repression. Some people value quality over quantity. It's their body - their choice.

As far as your comparison to smoking versus hiv, there is no comparison. You say that smoking kills more men than hiv does. Fine, lets say your right. It doesnt matter because smokers dont set out to get lung cancer when they start to smoke. They are not "chasers" of lung cancer. They smoke because they are addicted. Just like the bug chasers are addicted to sex. And anyone who can not stop doing something destructive has an addiction and needs counseling.

After saying there was no comparison you just proceeded to show how they were comparable. Smokers are addicted to smoking. Bug chasers are addicted to sex. Most bug chasers "just let it happen" (like smokers let lung cancer happen). Almost no bug chasers chase AIDS - they chase HIV. There is no virus for lung cancer - so nothing to chase.

...please explain to me why anyone in his right mind would choose to go out and get a DISEASE?

Typically they "just want to get it over with" so they can move on with their life. The fear of HIV is disruptive to them, but they know it's inevitable, so they want to get through the fear phase to the point where it's just done.

The people who do this are being selfish because hiv is a disease that we are trying to get under control, not make bigger.

You could say the same thing about smokers and over-eaters. Both are behaviors that result in disease that society has to pick up the medical bill for. Same for people who ride motorcycles, people who own guns, and so on and so on... There are a lot of things people do that other people have to pick up the tab for. Personally I think this particular one is considered "the worst of the worst" because sex (and particularly gay sex) is seen as "dirty" and "evil" in our puritan society. I reject gay sex as dirty/evil and ergo, based on the harm done, I question anyone who treats barebacking more harshly than smoking or over-eating - both of those kill more gay guys than barebacking.

 

[kallipolis]

You could say the same thing about smokers and over-eaters. Both are behaviors that result in disease that society has to pick up the medical bill for. Same for people who ride motorcycles, people who own guns, and so on and so on... There are a lot of things people do that other people have to pick up the tab for. Personally I think this particular one is considered "the worst of the worst" because sex (and particularly gay sex) is seen as "dirty" and "evil" in our puritan society. I reject gay sex as dirty/evil and ergo, based on the harm done, I question anyone who treats barebacking more harshly than smoking or over-eating - both of those kill more gay guys than barebacking.

HIV is a disease that is normally transmitted through sexual interaction, or through sharing syringes contaminated by the virus.

Safer sex practices reduces, even eliminates the risk of contracting HIV.

Smoking, and unhealthy eating habits are not infectious diseases that can be transmitted to other people by sexual interaction, or by sharing contaminated syringes.

 

[miyakko]

/head desk

ARGH. Well I knew there is a reason I come to these forums. Thanks for the website, I'll make sure to inform my coworkers about it.

People will do what they want to do and there will always be someone in my position to try and help them pick up the pieces. I'm not going to that forum right now, I'm already sick to my stomach because of something I ate, I don't need to add to that problem.... but I hope you have a section where people discuss the fallout of becoming HIV positive...but I doubt there is. Your website romanticizes it from what the others are saying. What's sad is that kids (teenagers!) are having conversion parties in oklahoma because "it's better to get infected from someone you know." ..... ...... ..... my head hurts.

Oklahoma may not have a wait list for getting into care, but several states around us have 1,000 name wait lists for getting into care. It seems that most of my patients don't have health insurance and if they were in any other state, they would SOL for some time waiting to get into care.

I'm just frustrated with the people that believe that sex will lead to HIV. Oh and please provide sources that show condom fail 5 - 10% of the time, I'm a little curious about that.

Most of the time that condoms fail is because the people using them didn't put the condom on correctly or didn't apply enough lube. Sure it's possible there is a defect in the condom, but more often then not, there was too much friction and the condom burst.