Big Brother 15

[falconfan]

Either way I'm pretty sure Amanda is still walking the plank. She thinks she has Andy so she's not really trying to work a back up plan on GM or Judd.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

And either way, GM's tie-breaker vote will be live and entertaining.

Also this is still better for Elissa because if she throws Amanda a vote and Andy doesn't go along, then Amanda will go and Elissa will have Judd and McCrae not targeting her if they win HOH during the double eviction. Andy and Spencer will target her but...they were doing that anyway.

 

[falconfan]

No GM is pretty set on sending Amanda home. She said she's going to tear Elissa apart after. It's gonna be some fireworks that's for sure. Spencer, Judd, Andy and GM are pretty locked and Amanda is POSITIVE she's staying. She told McCrae that this is the most comfortable she's ever felt. She's gonna straight up EXPLODE.

Also Andy is KILLING his chance at winning jury. He's lost Helen and now he's going to lose Amanda and McCrae and Elissa's vote. He can't honestly think that all the way through jury they'll believe Elissa is the Judas. Elissa has even given Amanda her wedding ring as collateral. Moreover I don't know WHY he's doing it? He'd be in a solid 3rd position in this alliance with him and Elissa and whoever is left over from teh exterminators focusing on rooting out Amanda and McCrae still for the next three evictions. There's no way he's more than 4th in the exterminator's alliance. Honestly it's baffling.

 

[slipintothefog]

You're thinking of Stacey Stillman from Survivor:Borneo. She sued shortly after the first season blew up, claming that the producers influenced her contestants to keep the more entertaining Rudy over her. She lost because as you say this is a reality show and not a gameshow. To which I say... I couldn't care less. I don't know if anyone on this board has ever seen a reality show contract.

I think Eliza or somebody posted her contract once upon a time on Survivor Sucks but I can't pretend to remember any of it. And I'm not usually into conspiracy theories but I do believe that vote in Borneo was a little fudged and Stacey was in the right. It actually wasn't that Rudy was entertaining, but that the show would have looked horrible because him going would have meant that the three older contestants on Borneo all went out back to back to back and they didn't want to turn off older viewers. And that's pretty fair because a lot had been invested into the first season of Survivor (including the Navy being one of the sponsors, and of course Rudy was a Navy Seal) and they wanted to guarantee the show was a hit. Which sucks for Stacey but, hey, I'm sure they paid her off well in her lawsuit and gave her a hush clause. And it kind of shows because the producers were determined not to screw with Australia at all next season and the narrative of "WE'RE GONNA COME BACK AND WIN THIS FOR MIKE AFTER HE FELL IN THE FIRE!" that would have been TV gold went absolutely nowhere because they all got pagonged by Tina and Colby's tribe.

 

[pineapple]

The whole Elissa thing is crazy and makes no sense. It has to be 1 of 3 things.

1. Elissa wants to blindside Amanda just for the fun of it and make her believe she's staying but then she gets evicted.
2. The DR told Elissa about the Exterminators alliance thinking it will help Elissa or Amanda (Who ever they want to win) so now Elissa figures the only way she'll make it to the end is to team up with McCrae & Amanda and that they'll be a shield for her.
3. Elissa is really really dumb!!!

 

[Adrock-JD]

It's the same reason the WWE can't call itself a sport; sports are regulated by commissions and with all the roids allegedly in the WWE, it would make no sense for the WWE to put itself in a position to be regulated.

You're thinking of Stacey Stillman from Survivor:Borneo. She sued shortly after the first season blew up, claming that the producers influenced her contestants to keep the more entertaining Rudy over her. She lost because as you say this is a reality show and not a gameshow. To which I say... I couldn't care less. I don't know if anyone on this board has ever seen a reality show contract. I have. They are think and more often than not say in at least five places that the producers are allowed to change the rules at any moment with no reason. The show is made to entertain you. Their job is to entertain you. Their job is not to find the best athlete or the smartest person. Watch the olympics or the spelling bee if that's what you want. That's not what I can about because NO ONE on these shows DESERVES or EARNS anything. Why do those 10-20 people deserve the shot to win money that millions of American's cna use? Is it because they've done something great and humanitarian? Have they proven to have a superior ability warranting some sort of reward? Nope. They're given the opportunity because people thought they'd be entertaining. I'd rather watch somethign than's interesting than fair. Because that's what these people signed up for.

Good points and interesting info, guys, thanks
I know it's for entertainment but some of my friends often get really upset about the rigging part. Funny how they only mention rigging when something isn't going their way.

 

[roadtripboy]

I've seen a Big Brother contract that was posted online. It was from season seven. (I think). They do sign away they're rights to protection under the Quiz Show Act. The fact that the producers put a clause in their contract mentioning the act, proves they know their show is a game show. And they are covering the butts from lawsuits.

It's fine with me if people want to sign away their rights. But, I still say...if the producers were creative people and not lazy hacks, they could stay within the act and still produce an interesting show.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

3. Elissa is really really dumb!!!

I really don't think it's that dumb though. Currently Spencer and Andy are targeting Elissa next after Amanda leaves, and if she votes out Amanda, McCrae will target her too. If however Amanda stays and Spencer goes, that means only Andy winning the next HOH is bad for her and even if Amanda gets evicted anyway, McCrae will still not target her (supposedly) for throwing Amanda a vote.

The way Elissa sees it, GM will be unhappy but she can't play for HOH, Spencer and Andy will come after her but they were doing that anyway, so why not throw Amanda a bone and add McCrae to the list of HOH's (including only herself and supposedly Judd) who would keep her safe for the next round?

 

[Adrock-JD]

Survivor is American Ninja on a beach with added down time footage.

Big Brother is The Real World on house lock down with comps.

On AD last night Elissa and Amanda seemed to be getting along fine. Amanda also seemed resigned to going to jury.

 

[falconfan]

I think Eliza or somebody posted her contract once upon a time on Survivor Sucks but I can't pretend to remember any of it. And I'm not usually into conspiracy theories but I do believe that vote in Borneo was a little fudged and Stacey was in the right. It actually wasn't that Rudy was entertaining, but that the show would have looked horrible because him going would have meant that the three older contestants on Borneo all went out back to back to back and they didn't want to turn off older viewers. And that's pretty fair because a lot had been invested into the first season of Survivor (including the Navy being one of the sponsors, and of course Rudy was a Navy Seal) and they wanted to guarantee the show was a hit. Which sucks for Stacey but, hey, I'm sure they paid her off well in her lawsuit and gave her a hush clause. And it kind of shows because the producers were determined not to screw with Australia at all next season and the narrative of "WE'RE GONNA COME BACK AND WIN THIS FOR MIKE AFTER HE FELL IN THE FIRE!" that would have been TV gold went absolutely nowhere because they all got pagonged by Tina and Colby's tribe.

Well I don't think the vote was fudged. It was what it was. Do I think there were interview questions along the lines of "Do you think Rudy seems really capable despite his age?" "Who seems to do the least around camp?" "How much does Stacey actually contribute in challenges?" etc. There are certain things producers always WANT and maybe try to put different degrees of influence on a situation but none of it is ever 'rigged' as people say because everyone has free will. You can set a situation up perfectly for someone and they can still fail. Even shows with judging panels have issues. I know for a fact there have been decisions made on Top Chef for instance that went against the cast the show would like to maintain because the judges felt a certain way about the food.

 

[falconfan]

It's fine with me if people want to sign away their rights. But, I still say...if the producers were creative people and not lazy hacks, they could stay within the act and still produce an interesting show.

OK, well you give it a try then. The very fact that ANYTHING is able to go from reel to screen in four days is a fucking miracle, let alone something unpredictable where the narrative literally writes itself. Most shows will have ONE EPISODE in production for a month and a half, sometimes more. This show turns out three episodes a week. Quality will suffer and it'll have nothing to do with the people working on it. I promise that there can be a week of footage that has no discernible, interesting, solid stories. It happens all the time.

 

[slipintothefog]

Oh, yeah, by "fudged" I just meant that the producers were asking questions a little too obviously in Rudy's favor or something. Dirk supported Stacey's allegations and Sean said basically the same, but that it was still HIS vote in the end. It's never been "rigging" in the sense that the producers are forcing people to vote in a certain way - everyone's always made that pretty clear. But those questions could be considered shady and I think that Borneo vote was probably the shadiest that Survivor ever got before they just went "we're a game show, fuck it" and had twists like swaps and shit to better try to control their storylines.

This trainwreck series goes far beyond that on a regular basis with stuff like Pandora's Box and America's vote etc. And I still don't care because you're right in that this show is here for entertainment value and I don't look at it for anything more than that. Survivor too. I doubt they would have introduced the tribe swap in Africa if the Mallrats hadn't taken over Samburu, but it was still fucking amazing TV.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

The very fact that ANYTHING is able to go from reel to screen in four days is a fucking miracle, let alone something unpredictable where the narrative literally writes itself. Most shows will have ONE EPISODE in production for a month and a half, sometimes more. This show turns out three episodes a week.

This is why even though BB looks like a cheap shit-show, I've always said the editors do amazing work (often using humor to undercut and satirize the contestants). I don't know if there's an Emmy category for Editing for a Reality Series, but it's the only thing this show would ever deserve a nomination for.

This trainwreck series goes far beyond that on a regular basis with stuff like Pandora's Box and America's vote etc. And I still don't care because you're right in that this show is here for entertainment value and I don't look at it for anything more than that.

I think that's exactly my complaint. I wouldn't care that much -- and I'm not one of the conspiracy theorists on here screaming "It's all rigged!" all the time like some fucking JUB Groundhog Day -- but it's more a viewer-annoyance that this show USED to have less of these bullshit twists. Before BB8 there were the stupid seasonal themes that didn't go anywhere (like Project DNA) and the occasional returning player, but now you have multiple twists per season, changing the basic rules of the game, letting America decide WAY too much. It's not "rigged" but it's annoying to watch.

 

[roadtripboy]

OK, well you give it a try then. The very fact that ANYTHING is able to go from reel to screen in four days is a fucking miracle, let alone something unpredictable where the narrative literally writes itself. Most shows will have ONE EPISODE in production for a month and a half, sometimes more. This show turns out three episodes a week. Quality will suffer and it'll have nothing to do with the people working on it. I promise that there can be a week of footage that has no discernible, interesting, solid stories. It happens all the time.

I've worked in TV production...and to be honest most of what we turn out is crap. But, that doesn't mean you just give up and don't try. I don't see anyone on BB trying. This is a show with a large production staff and stars a woman who married to the guy in charge of all things CBS. It should be better than it is. It just should.

 

[falconfan]

I've worked in TV production...and to be honest most of what we turn out is crap. But, that doesn't mean you just give up and don't try. I don't see anyone on BB trying. This is a show with a large production staff and stars a woman who married to the guy in charge of all things CBS. It should be better than it is. It just should.

How on Earth you can gauge how much people are 'trying' is mind boggling to me, especially if you say that you try and you turn out crap. So what you're essentially saying is that you can't tell from the product the effort that went in. Which is a statement I wouldn't agree with, in my experience. I also work in production of reality TV and every program I've ever worked on pretty much everyone involved works their ass off. You can't change what happens. That's all there is to it. You certainly can't change it if you only have four days to pitch, edit, go through clearance and legal, get network notes (assuming there's one set which given Aaryn I doubt there is), and re-edit. You can work 24 hours a day for four days and barely make it through those stages. God forbid the story arc takes a sudden expected turn or a cast member refuses to give interview consistent with their actions. It's a walking nightmare. You can say what you will about the end product but there is NO WAY every person involved in this process isn't killing themself for three solid months. If you didn't work your ass off on this it just wouldn't happen.

 

[falconfan]

Oh, yeah, by "fudged" I just meant that the producers were asking questions a little too obviously in Rudy's favor or something. Dirk supported Stacey's allegations and Sean said basically the same, but that it was still HIS vote in the end. It's never been "rigging" in the sense that the producers are forcing people to vote in a certain way - everyone's always made that pretty clear. But those questions could be considered shady and I think that Borneo vote was probably the shadiest that Survivor ever got before they just went "we're a game show, fuck it" and had twists like swaps and shit to better try to control their storylines.

This trainwreck series goes far beyond that on a regular basis with stuff like Pandora's Box and America's vote etc. And I still don't care because you're right in that this show is here for entertainment value and I don't look at it for anything more than that. Survivor too. I doubt they would have introduced the tribe swap in Africa if the Mallrats hadn't taken over Samburu, but it was still fucking amazing TV.

I'm actually pretty sure that tribal swaps were in the cards from before they began producing season 3. If you don't do that then the show takes the same course every season with two tribes meeting in the merge and sticking together until the tribe that entered the merge with lesser numbers. Fact of the matter is almost any game has an optimum strategy. Once that's discovered you're just watching tic tac toe so changing up the rules actually forces peopel to adapt and adds in unpredictability.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Fact of the matter is almost any game has an optimum strategy. Once that's discovered you're just watching tic tac toe so changing up the rules actually forces peopel to adapt and adds in unpredictability.

This is true but even if the "optimum strategy" is discovered and becomes a constant, the variable from season to season could and should always be the actual CONTESTANTS. For all the twists and themes and stupid audience pandering, these shows ultimately succeed or fail based on their casting. I feel like if they spent more time looking for regular/relatable people with interesting personality traits, who pop onscreen and who have potential for drama (like they used to before BB8) instead of only casting a bunch of wannabe SAG members, wannabe models and whoever Grodner met at her local Whole Foods, the the show would be a lot better. Seriously, watch back some random old episodes from Seasons 2-7 and you'll be surprised at how 1) simple the game was and 2) how much more focused it was on the individual personalities and their petty dramas. Even when they cast gems nowadays, we don't get nearly enough of their awesomeness on the show because they have to show all the starchy game/twist stuff that takes up a lot of the show's running time.

Jeremy wiping his butt with Elissa's hat didn't even make the TV show but in the past, they would've edited an entire storyline around it (see Shannon and Hardy's toothbrush from Season 2).

 

[slipintothefog]

Tina actually said back in the day that they had planned on doing a swap during Australia but decided to hold it off after Mitchell was voted out because Colby flipping from Jerri's alliance to Tina's changed the dynamics enough that they didn't need it. For Africa, I'm sure they were itching to do that swap after the Mallrats had beaten the Elders and I'm not sure they would have decided to do it right then and there if the Elders had won the tiebreaker.

But yes, a swap or late or early merge is always welcome by me to keep things from getting stagnant. The Redemption Island seasons were the worst because people were too afraid to do anything thanks to the threat of somebody coming back from RI. Combined with the fact that those were F3 seasons and F3 alliances are way easier to sell to allies than F2 ones and those seasons had some of the most stagnant gameplay ever.

Later Big Brother's problem is, like Sgt Pepper said, the contestants basing their actions around what they think America wants. Shelly voting for Rachel being the most obvious one. They can't really do anything to stop that one, but Grodner throwing in twists that obviously benefit the fan favorites certainly doesn't help. With swaps they happen enough and the twists themselves are consistent enough that Survivor players have to be aware of them, but Pandora or America's vote can cause anything and everything to happen which is kind of BS.

 

[roadtripboy]

How on Earth you can gauge how much people are 'trying' is mind boggling to me, especially if you say that you try and you turn out crap. So what you're essentially saying is that you can't tell from the product the effort that went in. Which is a statement I wouldn't agree with, in my experience. I also work in production of reality TV and every program I've ever worked on pretty much everyone involved works their ass off. You can't change what happens. That's all there is to it. You certainly can't change it if you only have four days to pitch, edit, go through clearance and legal, get network notes (assuming there's one set which given Aaryn I doubt there is), and re-edit. You can work 24 hours a day for four days and barely make it through those stages. God forbid the story arc takes a sudden expected turn or a cast member refuses to give interview consistent with their actions. It's a walking nightmare. You can say what you will about the end product but there is NO WAY every person involved in this process isn't killing themself for three solid months. If you didn't work your ass off on this it just wouldn't happen.

Thanks...the info I wondering about. If you had worked on reality TV.

You know full well it's possible to set-up a "cut & paste" production style for these type shows. In lifestyle tv almost every show we produce is a cut and paste show. Think House Hunters or Modern Marvels. Doesn't take a lot talent to produce them. And in my opinion (and it's just my opinion, you don't have to agree) Big Brother is a cut and paste show.

I would like to apologize for the way I've worded my posts. I shouldn't implied that the crews were lazy. What I should have said was the production style was lazy and uncreative.

Although, I have worked with some people who are just collecting their paychecks and nothing more.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

LOL @ Amanda totally beasting so many rounds of that POV comp after a season of sucking. Too bad she didn't actually win it but MY GOD that was so dramatic and so close! Slip were you swooning when the bitch kept knocking them out? Cuz I was.