Big Brother 17 is coming in just 13 days.

[Sgt Pepper]

Is it too much to ask that Audrey and Da'Vonne run the table and get to the F2 together while laughing at everyone else a la Jun & Alison?

Cuz here's the thing: this how DESPERATELY needs another female winner. Or more to the point: this show desperately needs a different kind of female winner. The fact is, not only has this show only had 5 out of 15 female winners, but only TWO of those came from the last nine seasons. That's not a random distinction either. In my view, BB really changed after All Stars with the Season of the Donatos signaling a new era of very heavy handed production manipulation, more audience participation/stupid twists, and more bottom-feeder casting in terms of 1) bigots 2) meatheads 3) stereotypes and 4) dumb women. Yes there were always these types on this show but consider that Season 3 and Season 4 gave us BRILLIANT women of color in Danielle and Jun, Season 5 gave us the hilarious Marvin and Season 6 managed to give us a Latina lesbian and her black gay sidekick and the first Muslim contestant who was both HOT and an audience favorite. Back then, there seemed to be a concerted effort to find people of color who didn't just fit a stereotype the audience could mock (like the crazy/religious black chick who has no chance of winning a la Jameeka, Chima or Jocasta) and at least some women with personalities and marbles. I don't think it's any coincidence that in the six seasons from BB2 to All Stars there were 3 female and 3 male winners. In other words EXACTY EQUITABLE. 50% female winners. Meanwhile in the post-All Star era there have only been two female winners. TWO out of NINE. A drop to 22%. And consider not only the vast difference in quantity but also quality. The three pre-All Star female winners were Lisa, Jun and Maggie -- ALL level-headed, smart, strong women whether you liked them or not. Hell BB6 even featured an all female F4 and BB5 had savvy female players like Nakomis and Diane making it all the way to F4 and F3 respectively. Meanwhile the post-All Star female winners include an idiot savant (Jordan) and a lunatic hobag (Rachel). Neither of those women could hold a candle to the likes of Nicole (BB2), Danielle and Lisa (BB3), Jun, Allison and Erika (BB4), Nakomis and Diane (BB5), or Janelle/Maggie/Ivette/April (BB6).

In the post-All Stars era, who are the women who even came close to the level of personality/gameplay of the women listed above? I count just two: Danielle Donato and Keesha, and the former was helped by a completely rigged season on BB8 and the latter was still outwitted/used by two guys. Ditto Britney who I love but who clearly has no game and who was outwitted/used by four guys on BB12. Furthermore, only bimbos like Porsche, Gina Marie and Victoria even come close to winning now.

Basically this show needs another solid female winner soon. For all its (and Probst's) flaws, Survivor actually does much better job of casting smarter women and actually having a roster of solid recent female winners like Sophie, Kim, Denise and Natalie.

 

[slipintothefog]

Problematic in that same way is that Jun is still the only winner of color on this show, too, and that's unlikely to change when their token minority spots every year go to the hyper-religious black lady or the flamboyant black gay guy. Which I guess says a lot about Jun's smarts to win so handily in a game where the players/Grodner try hard to reward blandly attractive 20-something white male privilege.

What was the last universally praised BB cast? Probably BB11. Who was on that season? Yes, the token bikini girl with big boobs and America's Sweethearts Jordeff, but also a strong and crazy black girl, a sassy but smart Blasian gay guy, a super hot Lebanese guy, an awkward nerdy girl and her evil male counterpart, a delusional and pathological liar Latina, a wacky bisexual Latina, a crazy middle-aged guy, etc. Shockingly, people seem to be receptive to diverse casts!

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Yes. And in fact let's compare this new era of BB to a new era of Survivor in terms of minorities and women. The demarcation for Survivor is Cook Islands where they started inducted the terrible F3 format, and eventually included stupid twists like too many idols, Redemption Island etc. However, unlike BB, Survivor's casting didn't take a complete nosedive in terms of minorities and women. Since Cook Islands we've had 4 winners of color in Yul, Earl, Sandra and Natalie (notice: 2 men and 2 women equally); and we've had seven female winners out of 18 seasons (38%). That's significantly better than Big Brother's output and consider the quality of those female winners: Parvati, Sandra, Kim, Sophie, Denise, and the two Natalie's. Not a stinker among them with only Natalie White being perceived as a passive winner (and she still has the honor for some us, of taking down an obnoxious blowhard).

Now compare that to the new era of BB where our only female winners are...Jordan and Rachel. You know what the Survivor equivalent of Jordan and Rachel would be? Natalie White isn't even Jordan because she was never portrayed as naive/idiotic. NONE of the Survivor female winners are like Jordan or Rachel so we have to go to non-winnners so it would be like if fucking Natalie Tenerelli and Abi-Maria won their respective seasons. Just think about that. What if the only female winners we had in the new Survivor era were Natalie Tenerelli and Abi Maria? Wouldn't that be DEPRESSING AS HELL?

Ladies and gentlemen: welcome to the hell that is Big Brother.

 

[slipintothefog]

When Abi-Maria is finished WINNING Cambodia we will need to revisit this discussion.

Also the saddest thing about Jordan and Rachel's wins to me personally is that BOTH got spun as the proxy/substitute 'happy ending' winners for Jeff as a consolation prize to the audience for him not winning either time. I mean, fuck, the casuals even tepidly accepted RACHEL'S win despite hating her for BB12 and half of BB13 just because she was in Jeff's alliance at the end. So really a girl can only even win if she's tenuously linked to the guy the crazy cat ladies want to blow now, too.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

I hadn't even considered the Jeff/proxy-win connection (good call slip) but needless to say...

 

[slipintothefog]

In the post-All Stars era, who are the women who even came close to the level of personality/gameplay of the women listed above? I count just two: Danielle Donato and Keesha

BB15's big players and characters were all women. Unfortunately, they all targeted each other and we ended up with the worst final five in the history of reality television.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Oh yes of course Amanda and Helen were good players/characters but they didn't make it to even F5. And the fact that they kept targeting each other already makes them different from the smart/strong women in the pre-All Star era who weren't threatened by other smart/strong women and who made it to the finals or almost the finals like Jun/Daniele/Nakomis.

Also these days the audience seems to turn on smart/strong women with depressing regularity (like the irrational fan hate directed at Sheila/Amanda/Helen/Christine). Ditto minorities, so that even when BB casts a strong black woman who isn't a crazy religious nut (like Libra or Kalia), the audience turns on her viciously.

The only thing worse than BB players are BB viewers.

 

[slipintothefog]

Is any credit given for the recent seasons lasting much longer and having more players/people getting a second chance after eviction than the early seasons? Amanda's reign of terror lasted until 7th place which means she survived nine evictions (actually 10 because of Judd's first eviction) which is as many as Danielle or Nakomis lasted.

Though this sort of reasoning would also mean that Queen Victoria is the best player of all time. Win/win?

 

[Sgt Pepper]

That's a great point and I guess technically then you're right. But I still wonder what is it about these newer seasons that just DUMPS on strong women? The only thing I can figure is that social media etc has allowed more of the fanbase access to the feeds (which was previously only viewed by actually subscribers) as well as a 24 hour platform to talk about the feeds. I get the feeling that if today's online world was available in the pre-All Star era, the likes of BB3's Danielle, BB4's Allison and Jun and BB5's Diane & Karen would be as hated as Sheila/Amanda/Christine today.

Returning to this season, I can't figure out if John the dentist is going to be hilarious or horrible. Tell me how to feel about him slip.

 

[slipintothefog]

Danielle and Alison (or as she was more commonly/infamously known, "Alislut") definitely got their share of hatred from the Internet back in the day. Jun also wrote once about anonymous Internet hatred during BB4, though she agrees that the fans are worse today. I could see Diane being hated today depending on how well Jase/the Horsemen would be edited on the show, though most of the hatred she got in reality was retroactive for how blindly in love she was with Drew and how he tossed her ass out so easily at F3. And Karen would probably just be regarded as a useless "floater," yeah.

I honestly haven't looked much into this cast yet. I thought BB15's cast sucked at reveal and BB16's was good and then my opinions swapped for both once the shows actually started. So I'm not even going to bother this year lol.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

All I know is, I miss Zach Rance already and damn you BB producers for not doing some bullshit twist and including him again this year. Also, I'm not a pit fetishist or anything but...guh.

 

[bostonboy20]

Hey Clay....




So far...love Da'Vonne...Shelli reminds me of Danielle Donato (but a bit prettier)...Audrey is gorgeous but needs to be careful she's not seen as a mean girl (a couple comments tonight were like...whoa slow down girl)...I can't tell if I find Jace attractive or not...leaning towards yes...NYC server girl is gonna get on my nerves I think...Wrestler guy seems cool...and Southern Asian guy needs to stop reminding us he's Asian and Country....also don't compare being transgender to being a Country Asian guy.

 

[slipintothefog]

Holy shit at all of these twists. I think Sgt Pepper said it best last year: this is a dumb show and it does NOT need to be this complicated.

 

[bostonboy20]

Do they really not expect us to remember that they did the twin twist in Season 5 with Natalie and Adria?

 

[joesman]

Yeah, I remember the twin twist. It could be fun if whoever it is is clever enough.

I flipped when Jace said he was a pedi-driver, then laughed it off and told the truth. Clay is definitely a piece of hotness.

Why do all the drs have to be shouting?

I have high hopes for Audrey but not the women's alliance. They never work out because some woman gets a hot nook and tells the men.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

My head hurt during that premiere with all the stupid twist explanations. But on the plus side: Audrey, DaVonne and Shelli formed the alliance I wanted asked the BB gods for. Let's hope dull men like James don't keep hogging HOH and end up doing what dull men like Derrick/Cody did last season and target all the women.

 

[slipintothefog]

If the women's alliance doesn't work out, you know it's because Shelli's going to turn on the girls for the D. Also, how sad is it that they're trying to push a 33 year old woman as a mini-cougar?

 

[joesman]

I thought the first show was pretty dull overall. I hope it gets more interesting after the new people come in tonight and After Dark starts on POP. I'm not so hot on the double HoH schtick.

 

[Adrock-JD]

Wait, what? Battle of the Block was a big hit with fans??? What fans said that? It wasn't me. I didn't get a thing out of it, just confusion and more games to play. It obviously didn't help break things up last season. We had one huge alliance that ruled to the end. I hope that does not happen this year.

98 days. Is that a record or something? 13 weeks?

If the twins make it to week 5 and both come in to play individually they will be target #1 & #2 for the entire house. They won't last long.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

98 days. Is that a record or something? 13 weeks?

Oh yeah that reminds me, I need to amend the quote that slip was referring to: this show is too stupid to be this complicated and this long.