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Big Brother 21 (Live Feed Spoiler Warning)

I like the challenge because they rip the place apart although it seems like a dumb thing to do since they'll have to clean it up. They did a pretty good job although I remember last year being messier, including flour on the floor

Cliff's hiding place is where I have hidden things. Pull out the bottom drawer and hide in the empty space
 
I agree with ZingBot...Jax is a pompous douche bag.

I saw on the POP live feeds (and CBS aired it Wednesday) that he told Holly more than once that all his other girlfriends talked to him like she did, and he wasn't going to take it anymore. That just tells me he treated them just as bad as he treats Holly (and Sis). Yep, he may shut down when faced with conflict with a girl friend, but he is a big douche before shutting down. I think he just doesn't want them to respond to his statements.
 
DAMN if Christie hadn't changed her answer at the last minute she could've won that POV and Tommy would've been evicted instead.


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Double evictions seem like an exciting prospect but they ALWAYS end up wiping out one or both of my faves. Losing Jess/Christie was truly a nightmare scenario for me.
 
tommy is going to win BIG BROTHER

i really hope not
 
Even though she actively eliminated the last bit of entertainment value on this season, I still felt for Nicole in that moment where she finally won a comp (especially after she finished the puzzle first but still hilariously and immediately missed her first goal shot in a Jessica Milagros-caliber moment of challenge prowess).
 
Yeah, Nicole made a major error in her nominations. It should have been Michi and Holly on the block and one of them should have gone. Instead she nominated Tommy and Christie and then voted out Christie. Little thought in that process.
 
I LOVE Nicole and she's the one I most want to see win at this point, and she's probably in the running now for Americas Favorite having slayed America's dragon. (And as much as I hated to see Christie slayed, I actually do think Cliff & Nicole made the right move for themselves during the double eviction. I just wish Tommy had gone instead of Christie.)

And slip yes I was the biggest fan of Nancy Botwin/Mary Louise Parker especially during the first few seasons before the show lost its way (but I still watched it all the way to the end).
 
You think it was the better choice to go at Tommy and Christie even after the Jackson and Holly HOH train reassembled with Jackson winning HOH AGAIN???

I also don't know if Nicole has the votes to win against anybody right now regardless... and I think even she sort of knows that because she keeps harping on building her resume. I probably would have just gone for Jolly in her situation.
 
So here's the thing and permit me some length and nerdery. Nicole only has one path to the end: 1) fly under the radar and then 2) win the necessary end comps to get herself there. She's almost completed part 1 of that plan and has started on part 2.

Once Jessica left, there were three pairs in the house (Cliff/Nicole, Jackson/Holly, Tommy/Christie). Even though the Tommy/Christie pre-existing relationship is unknown to the houseguests, Nicole knows they're close and a pair (she's said this at various times to Cliff). She and Cliff made a F4 deal with Jolly and both Holly & Jackson kept their end of the bargain with back to back HOHs. Now of course that doesn't mean Nicole & Cliff had to keep their end of the deal. The benefit to being the pair that wins an HOH later in such a deal is that you can...renege on the deal. The problem is Christie & Tommy.

Tommy has been OBSESSED with getting the Eight, then the Six, then the Four back together and then finally fuck-it-let's-just-work-with Holly. It's like he never even considered just working with Cliff & Nicole. And in fact Nicole tried valiantly to get Christie and Tommy to work with them last week because she really wanted to go after Jolly next but Christie and Tommy just kept trying to play both sides and it eventually came back to Nicole what they were doing. It could just never work because fundamentally Tommy & Christie are far more devious and less reliable than Jolly.

So had Nicole taken her shot at Jolly during the double, Jackson would likely have been evicted and then we'd be in a F5 with Tommy, Christie AND HOLLY just as Tommy would like it. In that scenario, it's Nicole/Cliff who have betrayed Holly, and Tommy & Christie now get to reunite with Holly and play for HOH against Cliff. Nicole is certain to be the target in that scenario and on the block with Cliff.

Whereas in this scenario, Jolly feel that she stuck to her end of the deal, they want to carry through on the deal and are targeting Tommy this week (yes they have to nominate him against either Nicole or Cliff but there's no one else) and even though this scenario is not foolproof for Nicole (Tommy could win the veto for example), it is still better than the scenario where she and Cliff are on the block and she's the target.

The only miscalculation I think was not pushing to evict Tommy over Christie during the double eviction (which, under the pressure of a live show and with Cliff & Nicole holding all the power at that moment, they could've gotten Jolly to do) thereby reducing the odds of the veto being won by the target at F5 and preventing a trio of Jolly & the target from forming (Christie had less options here on both fronts).
 
joesman said:
Yeah, Nicole made a major error in her nominations. It should have been Michi and Holly on the block and one of them should have gone. Instead she nominated Tommy and Christie and then voted out Christie. Little thought in that process.
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It's exactly what Michi wanted her to do, so I'd say NO thought process. Does she really think she and Cliff can outplay Holly and Michi? She basically handed him the win, and now I hate her for it. :lol:
 
Yeah, I was pissed that she didn't have the balls to go after Holly and less Jolly Jackson. I was not a big fan of big mouth Christie but she had more life in her than Cliff/Nicole/Holly/Michi. Tommy had/has his dance moves. Tommy has played better than Nicole/Cliff. As a matter of fact everyone who has been voted out had a better game than Nicole. I don't think anyone is going to hand her anything near a win even in final 2 with any of the others left. As Christie said, it is Michi's to lose and I hate that. If the rest of the comps are puzzles or true/false she might get to the end. But if Cliff is with her she will lose to him, I think.
 
Well laid out analysis Pep, but unfortunately for Nicole I think she's in a nearly unwinnable situation no matter what now. For one thing Jackson and Holly are pretty golden to just win their way to the end against Cliff/Nicole/Tommy, and the other is... who can she actually get the votes against out of the remaining players? This second question I have regardless of whether she took the shot at Tommy and Christie or Jackson and Holly last night.

She's in this weird area where I think people "like" her but she's not playing a game that the jury would find respectable, and she would really have to kill it on a jury questioning to lay out her game and get the jurors to respect it, which I'm not sure she can do because she's been so ineffectual at getting other players to listen to her for much of the summer. Even the people on the jury who like her were a) Nick who used and abused her for months, b) Kat who was taken out because Nicole waffled after she sent Jessica up on the campaign to keep Kat and c) Jess who was more cold and distant to Nicole after that scenario. If she goes with Cliff, she's doomed. If she goes with Jackson, all his friends are on the jury. If she goes with Holly, Holly has the more impressive "resume." Is Tommy her best shot? But he wouldn't work with her anyway.
 
Yeah those are good points slip and I agree. Her chances of actually winning aren't great (I do think she could beat Holly though who many of the jurors don't respect at all) but she needs to get there first. I'm honestly just impressed she made it this far when she seemed like easy flotsam for the dominant alliance early on. I also think it matters how she gets to the end. Like if she's the one who wins the F4 HOH or POV and F3 HOH and drags Cliff over the finish line...does she really lose to him?

BTW Jackson has nominated TOMMY & CLIFF which means he did indeed keep his word and Tommy is the target.

I'm still worried for Nicole this week because the houseguests think the POV comp will be the one with the comics, and that is very favorable to someone like Jackson...or Tommy. And if Tommy wins POV, I do think Jackson would keep Cliff over Nicole. But even if that happens and she goes this week, I still think she made the right strategic decision in the double eviction by basically trading a F5 scenario where she would have to win the veto to stay for a F5 scenario where only Tommy winning the veto gets her evicted.
 
More thoughts to share.

I do think the most likely outcome of this season is a Jackson/Holly F2 which...UGH. The one thing that could significantly reduce that chance is Tommy winning the veto this week because he's more competent in a wider range of comp skills than Nicole and could therefore have a better chance of winning F4 POV or F3 HOH to split up the couple.

Ironically, it might have been in Cliff & Nicole's best interest NOT to win one of the double eviction comps. Had Nicole not won that HOH, Tommy likely would've won it (he was right behind her) and put up Jackson & Holly. Then if Cliff wins the POV and keeps the noms the same, he and Nicole would have the deciding votes to send HOLLY out instead of Jackson (thereby preventing Tommy & Christie from reuniting with Holly at F5 and still leaving a big target in the game) and then it's Jackson/Cliff/Nicole playing for the F5 HOH against Christie. Conversely, if Nicole had still won the HOH but Cliff just threw the POV to Christie, that would've ensured Tommy went home instead and Christie would be a much easier target to get out this week. It's one of the ironies of Big Brother that sometimes the best thing is...not to win.
 
NICOLE WON THE VETO!!!!!

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Sgt Pepper said:
Nicole only has one path to the end: 1) fly under the radar and then 2) win the necessary end comps to get herself there. She's almost completed part 1 of that plan and has started on part 2.
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Finish it bitch, finish it.
 
And it sounds like her and Cliff now want to take out Holly...........?

Ugh, she's so getting chucked at F4 unless she wins that veto.
 
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