Bradley Manning [merged]

[Stardreamer]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

Did these revelations rock the world? hardly....

Oh. And if people don't think that diplomatic cables and emails aren't being intercepted by the other countries on a regular basis, you are living in a dreamworld.

The point is not about spying, yes that happens but about violating the private communications between nations which are private for a reason. A great deal of the world's diplomacy cannot be done without these secret discussions in the background.

There is a world of difference between leaders and diplomats knowing what the other side is saying about them and the whole world knowing. Do you honestly think it makes no difference at all that the Arab Street is handed evidence that the Saudi Princes don't really care that much about Israel and are more concerned about Iran? The fact that those Princes concerns are quite logical and legitimate to outside rational eyes means little to the passions that drive the Arab Street and if those governments were to fall because of it, what would replace them would not be something we in the West would welcome.

 

[EastMed]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

The point is not about spying, yes that happens but about violating the private communications between nations which are private for a reason. A great deal of the world's diplomacy cannot be done without these secret discussions in the background.

There is a world of difference between leaders and diplomats knowing what the other side is saying about them and the whole world knowing. Do you honestly think it makes no difference at all that the Arab Street is handed evidence that the Saudi Princes don't really care that much about Israel and are more concerned about Iran? The fact that those Princes concerns are quite logical and legitimate to outside rational eyes means little to the passions that drive the Arab Street and if those governments were to fall because of it, what would replace them would not be something we in the West would welcome.

The 'Arab Street' is the pent up desire for democracy. Of course it would be the wrong kind of democracy for the US.

As regards the death penalty: it's an act of barbarism.

 

[bynm27]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

hell to the no. what the fuck ever happened to freedom of speech? freedom of the information act? y'all are going way too far with this shit.

 

[DeeChai]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

hell to the no. what the fuck ever happened to freedom of speech? freedom of the information act? y'all are going way too far with this shit.

Service members do not enjoy the same freedoms, they are governed by the UCMJ. Send him to the firing squad.

 

[chance1]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I usually dont favor the death penalty, only in extreme circumstances. But I'd love to see Bradley Manning with a noose around his neck for treason. Assange and this no lip bastard annoy the hell out of me.

Leaking the documents serves no one's interest.

Senator Lieberman should be tried for treason too for claiming the war in Iraq is for Israel's security. Kind of weird when he called for the death penalty for treason.

not sure about the lieberman part ........ actually i am - [Text: Removed by Moderator]

as for our gay friend

i think death penalty for extreme cases is about right - if what is being reported is true and he is tried and found guilty

and this is as extreme as it gets

 

[Davey Boy Smith]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I usually dont favor the death penalty, only in extreme circumstances. But I'd love to see Bradley Manning with a noose around his neck for treason. Assange and this no lip bastard annoy the hell out of me.

Leaking the documents serves no one's interest.

Senator Lieberman should be tried for treason too for claiming the war in Iraq is for Israel's security. Kind of weird when he called for the death penalty for treason.

Really? I do hope you're kidding, or perhaps you do really miss the whole point of the importance of what Manning and Wikileaks as an organisation does. Countries rob its citizens of liberties all the time with the excuse of "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."

What these do is reveal the blatant hypocrisy of any nation. The cables expose crimes committed by America and show clear conspiracy, corruption and manipulation on the side of America acting as if it is the ruler of the world. Manning, and Assange in equal measure are heroes and should be treated as such.

 

[JB3]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

What these do is reveal the blatant hypocrisy of any nation. The cables expose crimes committed by America and show clear conspiracy, corruption and manipulation on the side of America acting as if it is the ruler of the world. Manning, and Assange in equal measure are heroes and should be treated as such.

The cables show nothing of the sort. What they've exposed are the types of things that have been happening between ALL nations since the beginning of modern history.

Don't glorify these men. They don't deserve it.

 

[JB3]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

Both McKinnon, and Manning should be rewarded by the United States Government for exposing potentially damaging security issues, by ensuring that their generous services ensure that loop holes in the communications systems of the United States military are plugged.

Better that The Pentagon's top brass swallow a bitter pill, and acknowledge that two young people have been able to embarrass the United States military machine.

What America needs is not judgement, and condemnation of McKinnon, and Manning but an authentic affirmation, that these two fine gentlemen have served the strategic interests of the United States, by offering both of them consultancy roles to improve the security of the United States Government's communications' systems.

What kind of drugs do you take over there? Do you even know how all of this occurred, and the reason why it did?

 

[JB3]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

Neither Manning, nor the owner of WikiLeaks should get the Death Penalty. They simply took information they were able to get their hands on and released it. Whomever let them get their hands on this stuff, maybe should. but let's hear the details of how that happened first.

We know how it happened. Manning had clearance to access some of the information, and because of the relaxed security around the data (part of the 9/11 panel's information sharing recommendations) he was able to access stuff that had nothing to do with his job. He KNEW he was doing something wrong when he did it, and his purpose was to do bad things with the information.

 

[bankside]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I'm grateful that we're learning what we're learning. It is all going to be in the public domain, and for better or for worse, we're going to have to make the best of it. We can't un-know what we know about our governments via this leak, and all we can do in democratic countries is use the information to understand what our governments are doing in our names.

There has been a lot of brouhaha about whether lives will be paid for this knowledge, perhaps this is so... I suspect lives will also be saved through this knowledge.

However, whoever was responsible for conveying the information to wikileaks probably broke the law in an unethical way. The person who copied the files showed no discernment. They had access to everything, and they leaked everything. They were not moved by conscience to share a specific act of troublesome wrongdoing, it was just an info-dump. To me that precludes a defence of legitimate whistle-blowing. "Haha gotcha!" is not the essential heartbeat of freedom.

Jail is fine, as of course the death penalty remains uncivilised.

 

[JB3]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I'm grateful that we're learning what we're learning. It is all going to be in the public domain, and for better or for worse, we're going to have to make the best of it. We can't un-know what we know about our governments via this leak, and all we can do in democratic countries is use the information to understand what our governments are doing in our names.

There has been a lot of brouhaha about whether lives will be paid for this knowledge, perhaps this is so... I suspect lives will also be saved through this knowledge.

However, whoever was responsible for conveying the information to wikileaks probably broke the law in an unethical way. The person who copied the files showed no discernment. They had access to everything, and they leaked everything. They were not moved by conscience to share a specific act of troublesome wrongdoing, it was just an info-dump. To me that precludes a defence of legitimate whistle-blowing. "Haha gotcha!" is not the essential heartbeat of freedom.

Jail is fine, as of course the death penalty remains uncivilised.

That's the thing. Manning didn't want to blow a whistle. He just wanted to steal as much information as possible, and give it to whoever he could. Whether it was because he hated his country or just wanted to make a name for himself (I'm leaning on the latter), he didn't actually show any care whatsoever for what he stole. (if he had just stolen the data concerning Iraq and afghanistan, and specific data instead of the mass that he did steal, this would have been a whole different story)

 

[Davey Boy Smith]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

The cables show nothing of the sort. What they've exposed are the types of things that have been happening between ALL nations since the beginning of modern history.

Don't glorify these men. They don't deserve it.

What about the release of the video of soldiers in charge of an Apache helicopter executing unarmed, innocent people? The Reuters news agency tried to use the Freedom of Information Act to release the video because two of their employees were amongst those killed, but the request failed and it had to be leaked. Why do you think it wasn't released?

Not national security because it reveals nothing that is secret, other than damaging video footage showing US soldiers knowingly murdering innocent people. Manning leaked that video, and he's the one thrown in Jail. What happened to those who killed the civilians I wonder?

That's what make people like Manning heroes. Releasing proof of the murder committed by government arms which claim self-righteousness.

 

[Davey Boy Smith]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

That's the thing. Manning didn't want to blow a whistle. He just wanted to steal as much information as possible, and give it to whoever he could. Whether it was because he hated his country or just wanted to make a name for himself (I'm leaning on the latter), he didn't actually show any care whatsoever for what he stole. (if he had just stolen the data concerning Iraq and afghanistan, and specific data instead of the mass that he did steal, this would have been a whole different story)

And you know this how exactly?

 

[JB3]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

And you know this how exactly?

Look at the data he took.

Oh and then there's the fact that he admitted that he stole the data to embarrass the US, out of anger against the US Army, and without discerning at all against the petty garbage that was in the first diplomatic release and information worth actually being released.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Bradley-Manning-prime-suspect-leaks-case.html

 

[JB3]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

What about the release of the video of soldiers in charge of an Apache helicopter executing unarmed, innocent people? The Reuters news agency tried to use the Freedom of Information Act to release the video because two of their employees were amongst those killed, but the request failed and it had to be leaked. Why do you think it wasn't released?

Not national security because it reveals nothing that is secret, other than damaging video footage showing US soldiers knowingly murdering innocent people. Manning leaked that video, and he's the one thrown in Jail. What happened to those who killed the civilians I wonder?

That's what make people like Manning heroes. Releasing proof of the murder committed by government arms which claim self-righteousness.

He's no hero. He didn't know that's that what he took. He just grabbed all the data he could and uploaded it. WikiLeaks found that video; manning didn't even know it was there.

 

[DeeChai]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

They're gonna eat Manning alive at Leavenworth, remember snitches get stitches.

 

[bankside]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

They're gonna eat Manning alive at Leavenworth, remember snitches get stitches.

I would have thought that military prisoners would conduct themselves with more discipline. I would have thought they would be made to by an honourable military.

I doubt getting stitches is a possible outcome of a court-martial, and in an environment like that, I would expect it to be respected by prisoners who should be worried about paying their own debt to society.

 

[Stardreamer]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

What about the release of the video of soldiers in charge of an Apache helicopter executing unarmed, innocent people? The Reuters news agency tried to use the Freedom of Information Act to release the video because two of their employees were amongst those killed, but the request failed and it had to be leaked. Why do you think it wasn't released?

Not national security because it reveals nothing that is secret, other than damaging video footage showing US soldiers knowingly murdering innocent people. Manning leaked that video, and he's the one thrown in Jail. What happened to those who killed the civilians I wonder?

That's what make people like Manning heroes. Releasing proof of the murder committed by government arms which claim self-righteousness.

As I said before, if the video and things like it was all he released, I might have had some sympathy for this argument but he didn't stop there.

 

[Stardreamer]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I would have thought that military prisoners would conduct themselves with more discipline. I would have thought they would be made to by an honourable military.

I doubt getting stitches is a possible outcome of a court-martial, and in an environment like that, I would expect it to be respected by prisoners who should be worried about paying their own debt to society.

Prisoners are still criminals and violent types. There is more discipline and less freedoms in military prisons but don't doubt that violence does happen there just as it does in any prison environment.

 

[Ambrocious]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I wouldn't have normally said this in the past but I think he does need consequences but NOT death. I thought it was important to expose corruption...it still is but the degree that Wikileaks is heading with all these exposures and planned purposeful destabilization...we are going to wind up eating each other so to speak.

I am no judge here and so I am not going to call for what kind of sentence he gets but I will say, if I was him, I would not want to die for exposing this horrible truth. I would want to live with the hopes that one day, America won't have to cover up it's atrocities because America wont be doing things that need exposed such as this. I could keep dreaming however...

I am not in favor for the death penalty. I am in favor of a miracle occurring here in the United States because that's what it's going to take to stop the shit storm we now most certainly face.