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Bradley Manning [merged]

Should Bradley Manning Get the Death Penalty?


  • Total voters
    47
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

It's a different code one lives by when you put on that uniform to serve your country.

That being said, I believe in the laws and penalties of treason.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

didn't hillary just said something like that after all it was good for the us that this leak happened? because they are now just stronger etc .. :rotflmao: why would she execute anyone like that?

and what kind of good christians are you, sitting here, foaming and calling for the murder of a man? it's not even an eye for an eye
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

The point is not about spying, yes that happens but about violating the private communications between nations which are private for a reason. A great deal of the world's diplomacy cannot be done without these secret discussions in the background.

There is a world of difference between leaders and diplomats knowing what the other side is saying about them and the whole world knowing. Do you honestly think it makes no difference at all that the Arab Street is handed evidence that the Saudi Princes don't really care that much about Israel and are more concerned about Iran? The fact that those Princes concerns are quite logical and legitimate to outside rational eyes means little to the passions that drive the Arab Street and if those governments were to fall because of it, what would replace them would not be something we in the West would welcome.

And there is the problem.

Maybe diplomats and nations would be more measured and responsible in their assessments if everyone stopped thinking that diplomacy is some exercise entrusted to the equivalent of 14 year old girls talking about their frenemies behind their backs.

The old way of Machiavellian diplomacy isn't appropriate in the 21st century.

And if anyone thinks that the West propping up medieval regimes will stem the tide against fundamentalism, take a look at how the propping up of the Pahlavi dynasty in Iran worked out for the world.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I gotta say, the guy did the world a favour.

In Canada, and around the world, we now have the unvarnished truth about how Karzai is viewed by our governments and instead of the pussyfooting around, our prime minister has flat out said that he stands by the diplomat's assessment.

So now we can honestly ask...'what the fuck are we doing wasting the lives of our soldiers and our tax dollars propping up yet one more corrupt whack job and his odious family who are working as much against our interests as for them?'

It was like a fresh breeze blowing through.

Sometimes it is good for everyone to know who their enemies as well as their friends are.

Did these revelations rock the world? hardly....



Agreed! ..|
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

Life imprisonment.So the little fucker will have to reflect forever whether it was all worth it.....wipe that smug smile off his face.Traitor plain and simple but he's not worth being symbolized as a martyr.He's NO hero,though in any stretch of the imagination.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

No. We need to deal with it from the reality of the west not propping up another puppet regime because it is afraid of the what ifs.

If Karzai is finally not able to function under the pretense of legitimacy, then time to see what goes into his place.

The Taliban again? Which nations except Pakistan would tolerate that? Not even Iran at this point.

A soviet style puppet regime? Would that be worse than what is there now? A tribal warlord who would wage civil war? Would that be worse than now?

The fact is, Afghanistan is a failed state and has been a failed state before the Durand Line or the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It can never be anything but a failed state.

And no amount of pretending or delaying the inevitable when the Afghani's turn full bore against their occupiers again is going to change this.

Karzai had the greatest opportunity to create a modern state ever handed to a politician. That he chose to squander it and play the west for fools does not mean he should be supported in this game.

The best outcome at this point for the West is that the tribes in Afghanistan go to war among themselves.

What I hear is a fait accompli. And I'm not so sure about writing Afghanistan off because of corruption. I also don't like men and women (Afghans and coalition forces) dying in what looks like a mission with no end. I have made threads asking about the progress since Obama's surge. No one seems to know.

I'm reading Condolezza Rice's sort of autobiography now and she talks about the prevailing attitude before blacks were allowed to vote. And the people thought at the time that blacks weren't ready to vote. It sounds sort of like that when you dismiss supporting the country because of corruption in the government. You can find corruption in every country.

I'd really like the international community to support Afghanistan in true nation building. I saw an Afghan woman from an NGO speaking on "This Week" yesterday. She was sick and tired of the Afghan way of paying bribes to get things done. She ended her segment with saying that if coalition forces leave, women and children lose. I really wouldn't like that to happen especially considering all the money and lives that have evaporated in this mission.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

He's no hero. He didn't know that's that what he took. He just grabbed all the data he could and uploaded it. WikiLeaks found that video; manning didn't even know it was there.

He wanted to embarrass a country that has committed some of the most horrendous crimes against humanity over the last century, yet it's still a country that claims to be a moral leader of the world. I'd call this guy a hero. What is it our governments say? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear? Seems the US has a hell of a lot to hide and is terrified of the power of free speech being exercised by Assange.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

Like I said before, there have been others who have done far worse damage to this country... and they didn't get death. If they didn't get executed, neither should Manning.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

He's no hero. He didn't know that's that what he took. He just grabbed all the data he could and uploaded it. WikiLeaks found that video; manning didn't even know it was there.

No, Manning knew the video was there. It was flagged in the system as super-secret, which is why it attracted Manning's attention in the first place.

When he saw what it was, he was (apparently) appalled, and then just downloaded a whole bunch of stuff to which he had access. He seems to have assumed there must be a lot more worrisome stuff in the rest of the classified info.

But Manning had no idea what was in the vast majority of stuff he handed over to Wikileaks. No one human could have waded through all that info in a lifetime.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I gotta say, the guy did the world a favour.

In Canada, and around the world, we now have the unvarnished truth about how Karzai is viewed by our governments and instead of the pussyfooting around, our prime minister has flat out said that he stands by the diplomat's assessment.

So now we can honestly ask...'what the fuck are we doing wasting the lives of our soldiers and our tax dollars propping up yet one more corrupt whack job and his odious family who are working as much against our interests as for them?'

It was like a fresh breeze blowing through.

Sometimes it is good for everyone to know who their enemies as well as their friends are.

Did these revelations rock the world? hardly....

Oh. And if people don't think that diplomatic cables and emails aren't being intercepted by the other countries on a regular basis, you are living in a dreamworld.

I'm 100% with you.

Give him a reward.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

He wanted to embarrass a country that has committed some of the most horrendous crimes against humanity over the last century, yet it's still a country that claims to be a moral leader of the world. I'd call this guy a hero. What is it our governments say? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear? Seems the US has a hell of a lot to hide and is terrified of the power of free speech being exercised by Assange.

What exactly new have we found out that we didn't know before besides maybe China being sick and tired of North Korea?

Nothing new. Just an egomaniac gone wild.

His mother should be shopping around his headstone.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I think the Death Penalty is too harsh at this point. This latest batch seemed like mostly ... not all ... but mostly petty gossip about certain dignitaries in other countries.

Where as this may certainly put a strain on relationships with some countries, it does serve a purpose in exposing corruption. Although I obviously wouldn't want to be Assange at this point.

Speaking of which, I do not believe the charges of molestation and rape on his part. I think that is an obvious smear campaign against him on the part of either the US Government, or the Swedes and simply promoted by our Government. These charges were conveniently made immediately after the previous batch of releases and now suddenly are back in the spotlight again after the latest batch.

Petty gossip... what about the latest leak concerning key security facilities around the world for the US?

I can't see any good possibly coming from this.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

What exactly new have we found out that we didn't know before besides maybe China being sick and tired of North Korea?

Nothing new. Just an egomaniac gone wild.

His mother should be shopping around his headstone.

How about murder committed by US soldiers of innocent civilians. Not accidental, intentional murder.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

He wanted to embarrass a country that has committed some of the most horrendous crimes against humanity over the last century, yet it's still a country that claims to be a moral leader of the world. I'd call this guy a hero. What is it our governments say? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear? Seems the US has a hell of a lot to hide and is terrified of the power of free speech being exercised by Assange.

Eggsactly!

Funny how often the govt will cow its citizens into doing things under the banner of "well.... if you don't have anything to hide.....". Guess what? That works both ways.

Sorry LL but you're showing your patriotism and undying support for a govt that doesn't give a shit about you, much less the world around it. The USA is only interested in it's own self-interest, never doubt that. Just as China cares about itself. And every other country cares about itself. I'm just sick to death of the US govt whining about how great they are, and condemn other countries like China for following their own interests.

Don't let your patriotism blind you LL>
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

How about murder committed by US soldiers of innocent civilians. Not accidental, intentional murder.

Of course, I'm glad to hear about this. And the fact that the US has indeed kept a tally of the innocent Iraqis killed in the conflict. Something they've denied actually counting for years. I'd also like to see the shady dealings of Bank of America and BP. I'd also like to find out how cozy our government is with these two corporations.

But the leaks relating to national security and international diplomacy aren't needed. Do we need to know about security points around the world? Or Gaddafi's throwing a fit and leaving enriched uranium on a runway? Or the President of Argentina's mental condition?

These cables aren't for an Australian or a nutty soldier to give away to the world.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

Eggsactly!

Funny how often the govt will cow its citizens into doing things under the banner of "well.... if you don't have anything to hide.....". Guess what? That works both ways.

Sorry LL but you're showing your patriotism and undying support for a govt that doesn't give a shit about you, much less the world around it. The USA is only interested in it's own self-interest, never doubt that. Just as China cares about itself. And every other country cares about itself. I'm just sick to death of the US govt whining about how great they are, and condemn other countries like China for following their own interests.

Don't let your patriotism blind you LL>

No, I really am glad to hear about some things that have come out that expose lies we were told. But I don't think confidential cables about what the Saudis are saying to our officials are for public consumption. Ultimately, it is how our officials act with whatever is said that matters.

You can't get cooperation with countries that don't be believe you'll kept what's said in meetings private. Remember Obama promised diplomacy and not war or ignoring countries like Iran and North Korea.

I do anticipate the leaks on BP and Bank of America as I feel there is a lot that hasn't been shared. But not leaks from a war zone.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

death? no.

forced to work on a farm or factory in rural China for the rest of his life? maybe.

Interesting one -- except the Chinese government would drain him of everything else he knows.

Instead, I'm sure there's an Army base in the U.S. that could use someone to do janitorial work for twenty years or so.

So, what are we going to do now that we know Karzai isn't an effective leader? Run from Afghanistan and leave a weak government there? We can't. We have to leave Afghanistan in a position where it can uphold law and order. Right now it can't.

That depends on what you mean by "law and order". If you mean like in Amsterdam or Helsinki or Madrid, you're right.

But they could manage a sort of monarchy with a Parliament of warlords and city mayors -- maybe two houses in their parliament, just like that. The first step toward stability is to assure the PTBs they're not going to lose out, and put into place something that can slowly transition. A Republic of warlords and mayors would be better than a corrupt central system ready to disintegrate back into nothing if coalition forces leave.

It's a solution that could be put in place in just months, a Republic where all local offices are elected -- and mayors, I would presume. We could leave perhaps an air base to provide support, but turn the rest over to them.

And make it clear that if they let the Taliban take over again, we won't be as nice next time.

That's the thing. Manning didn't want to blow a whistle. He just wanted to steal as much information as possible, and give it to whoever he could. Whether it was because he hated his country or just wanted to make a name for himself (I'm leaning on the latter), he didn't actually show any care whatsoever for what he stole. (if he had just stolen the data concerning Iraq and afghanistan, and specific data instead of the mass that he did steal, this would have been a whole different story)

He grabbed too much data to be selective -- which says he didn't care.

It's a different code one lives by when you put on that uniform to serve your country.

That's important to remember.

But Manning had no idea what was in the vast majority of stuff he handed over to Wikileaks. No one human could have waded through all that info in a lifetime.

That's his real condemnation: he didn't care. He didn't care enough to look through it, didn't care if any of his fellow service folks were put at risk, didn't care if the cause of freedom was set back here and/or there, didn't care about what might hurt his country.


But there's no death penalty material there. The death penalty belongs in two places only: at the hands in the intended victim in the course of defending himself, and with mass or serial murderers when a panel of psychologists and psychiatrists say the person can't be changed.

So... no.
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

No, I really am glad to hear about some things that have come out that expose lies we were told. But I don't think confidential cables about what the Saudis are saying to our officials are for public consumption. Ultimately, it is how our officials act with whatever is said that matters.

You can't get cooperation with countries that don't be believe you'll kept what's said in meetings private. Remember Obama promised diplomacy and not war or ignoring countries like Iran and North Korea.

I do anticipate the leaks on BP and Bank of America as I feel there is a lot that hasn't been shared. But not leaks from a war zone.

Sorry bro, but you gotta take the good with the bad. You either get openess when it's "unpleasant" or no openess at all. Take your pick.

In the end openess is better than lies and bullshit. Just like finding out how many trillions of $$$ the US Fed has printed to stabilize the world. As a taxpayer that's your right. How many trillions of $$$ is the US printing on your word, and your future children's word to back huge conglomerate corporations?
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

as fucked up as it sounds .. but if they execute him it might somehow be in his own interest.
there is no way to embarrass the US more ..
 
Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

Sorry bro, but you gotta take the good with the bad. You either get openess when it's "unpleasant" or no openess at all. Take your pick.

In the end openess is better than lies and bullshit. Just like finding out how many trillions of $$$ the US Fed has printed to stabilize the world. As a taxpayer that's your right. How many trillions of $$$ is the US printing on your word, and your future children's word to back huge conglomerate corporations?

But it's not openness. Assange is timing these releases and is using cables on BP, BofA and Guantanamo Bay as "insurance" against his arrest or hit. Sounds more like blackmail than openness.
 
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