bugchasing and HIV

[Rolyo85]

I don't disagree. But the US doesn't have the moat stellar track record of dealing with mental issues...

 

[xboxfan34]

Nothing is fucking stopping me from using condoms when I lose my virginity.

 

[Kulindahr]

So.... making choices based on mere common sense and avoiding self destruction is to be considered luck nowadays? I partially agree that they are not freaks. But the fact that they refuse to employ the smallest minutiae of common sense to make decisions that affect their health and well being for the rest of their (shortened) lives for a perceived (minor) increase in temporary pleasure...... That isn't a lack of luck but complete and utter stupidity. And it doesn't come from a genetic lack of intelligence but a refusal to use the intelligence they were born with.

Reminds me of my older brother's definition of humankind: man is the only animal who doesn't use the brains God gave him. I know they're dealing with something unseen, but for that very reason it ought to be scarier.

 

[Willie Boy]

Be as condescending as you like. Not every direction out lives take is a matter of choice, and people often get sucked into things they wouldn't normally "choose". Otherwise there would be no substance abuse, prostitution and any number of other self-destructive things..

I was not being condescending, just stating fact. As for "getting sucked into things they wouldn't choose".... that's bullshit. They have a choice to start or not. With drugs it is their choice to start and continue. Addiction doesn't occur prior to use. And it doesn't happen with the first use, but with CONTINUED use the body/mind builds up a dependence. THAT is when addiction occurs, up until that dependence is formed it is the choice of the user to continue. And even after, there is help should one choose to stop. And how is prostitution anything but choice? How does one sell one's body for sex without CHOOSING to do so? You can toss up all the excuses you want in order to enable bad choices..... But in the end it boils down to bad choices.

I don't disagree. But the US doesn't have the moat stellar track record of dealing with mental issues...

Mental issues have nothing to do with this. That is just another excuse enablers use. Just because one makes bad choices does not mean he or she is mentally disabled, just idiotically enabled.

I'm not saying there are NO mental disorders, just that when it comes to the sexual activity we are discussing in this thread the bad choices that are made are just that - CHOICES.

 

[Kulindahr]

Yes. And if you don't see the luck involved, then you clearly know nothing of the circles one can inadvertently get tangled into in big cities.

Big cities makes no difference -- peer pressure is peer pressure, and stupidity is its own reward. Unfortunately, the penalty for stupidity doesn't just land on the stupid, or that for foolishness just on the foolish. These guys are deliberately harming themselves and deliberately doing so at the expense of everyone else.

 

[Kulindahr]

I was not being condescending, just stating fact. As for "getting sucked into things they wouldn't choose".... that's bullshit. They have a choice to start or not. With drugs it is their choice to start and continue. Addiction doesn't occur prior to use. And it doesn't happen with the first use, but with CONTINUED use the body/mind builds up a dependence. THAT is when addiction occurs, up until that dependence is formed it is the choice of the user to continue. And even after, there is help should one choose to stop. And how is prostitution anything but choice? How does one sell one's body for sex without CHOOSING to do so? You can toss up all the excuses you want in order to enable bad choices..... But in the end it boils down to bad choices.

I put up with getting my head stuffed into a toilet in high school rather than try a cigaret. The only suction I experienced was when it got flushed.

Mental issues have nothing to do with this. That is just another excuse enablers use. Just because one makes bad choices does not mean he or she is mentally disabled, just idiotically enabled.

That's not entirely true, but to restate it as "mental issues do not determine this" would be. In addition, these guys are definitely generating their own mental health issues -- as does anyone who engages in sexual assault.

 

[eastofeden]

Like I said, I'm not making excuses for them. I'm just saying that they are deeply confused and deserve compassion. That is all.

I agree...I might be biased as I worked in the gay community and heard thousands of men's stories and got glimpses into their lives...

There are alot of circumstances in people's lives...some we choose and others we don't...that can have an impact on some of us. It is easy for me to put myself in other people's shoes and see things from their POV so like I said...I kinda get it.

I think anyone who does this has already been damaged in some way and it doesn't matter whether I can or can't understand it...I do have some compassion for them.

 

[eastofeden]

I was not being condescending, just stating fact. As for "getting sucked into things they wouldn't choose".... that's bullshit. They have a choice to start or not. With drugs it is their choice to start and continue. Addiction doesn't occur prior to use. And it doesn't happen with the first use, but with CONTINUED use the body/mind builds up a dependence. THAT is when addiction occurs, up until that dependence is formed it is the choice of the user to continue. And even after, there is help should one choose to stop. And how is prostitution anything but choice? How does one sell one's body for sex without CHOOSING to do so? You can toss up all the excuses you want in order to enable bad choices..... But in the end it boils down to bad choices.



Mental issues have nothing to do with this. That is just another excuse enablers use. Just because one makes bad choices does not mean he or she is mentally disabled, just idiotically enabled.

I'm not saying there are NO mental disorders, just that when it comes to the sexual activity we are discussing in this thread the bad choices that are made are just that - CHOICES.

Sorry but that is nonsense. Most addicts have addictive personalities and are pre-disposed to addiction long before they ever touch a drug...or drink...or smoke...or gamble. Yes....they have choices...but getting to that point in the addicts mind is a long journey.

Mental issues have everything to do with it....

 

[Kulindahr]

I think anyone who does this has already been damaged in some way and it doesn't matter whether I can or can't understand it...I do have some compassion for them.

Okay, I can buy that.

 

[Rolyo85]

Sorry but that is nonsense. Most addicts have addictive personalities and are pre-disposed to addiction long before they ever touch a drug...or drink...or smoke...or gamble. Yes....they have choices...but getting to that point in the addicts mind is a long journey.

Mental issues have everything to do with it....

It's sad how little people actually know about the nature of addictions. Many are extremely judgmental, assuming that since they don't have addictive personalities and were never exposed to the things people get addicted to, somehow they are standing higher on the moral scale.

Which is both off topic and sorta not.

 

[Rex]

If they're so worried about always thinking they are going to catch HIV, why not take precautions to avoid getting it? Wouldn't that make more sense than just getting it on purpose?

Stupid ass people.

Is being a bareback bath house butt slut worth your life? These people need mental help over anything.

 

[xboxfan34]

After recently going through four years of high school and having to deal with peer pressure there, I firmly believe that bugchasing and getting HIV on purpose is THE worst form of peer pressure. To think that people believe that they have to get AIDS to "fit in" when it comes to the gay community is fucking terrible and it basically knocks down everything we've worked for in terms of getting the general public to accept us.
Not only that, but I think that gays in particular need to be better informed that safe sex saves lives.

 

[maxpowr9]

It is a lot to do with mental issues or just being slutty.

Bugchasing is the main reason I feel that HIV will always be stigmatized at least in a sexual regard.

 

[bankside]

We can still have compassion while recognising that containment is still the top priority. Preventing this behaviour is fine, whether it takes supportive counselling, or group homes, or cell doors. Certainly it is complex, but I hope nowhere in there comes the idea of "honouring people's choices" or anything like that. It isn't a choice, it's a mental illness with dire public health consequences. It's like someone with typhoid. You don't expose the general population to them. It's not for lack of compassion, it's just the obvious thing to do to prevent the spread of disease.

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

Be as condescending as you like. Not every direction out lives take is a matter of choice, and people often get sucked into things they wouldn't normally "choose". Otherwise there would be no substance abuse, prostitution and any number of other self-destructive things..

.....or unwanted pregnancies, which somehow seem to still be going on non-stop no matter how much education. Gee ain't human nature strange that way???

hear- hear on your excellent post But don't expect to find any decent compassion discussion on HIV from the gays on here. Just judgmental self righteous "us & them". While this this bug chasing is a behavior I disagree with and likely more of a over blown gay urban legend over fact in 2013. Oh yeah you read it on a site on the Internets so it has to be the fucking truth. What is lacking is the regard expressed right here for other gay men reading this thread who likely have HIV and or know dear friends alive or dead who were not freaks of nature treated like the out kast the across the hand swipe is given making those with the disease seem even more alienated and alone. It is the big mouth nasty gay dude who spews more hate against other HIV gay men then can be witnessed in the hetero community hands down in 2013. Imagine that they are almost hated as much as smokers (or classed together) by the luscious sex gods in this thread.

I have some good friends who have HIV and if you were talking about people with HIV in the bar near me like some of you talk about gays or people with HIV in this gay forum I would put your dick in the dirt and not the way you might prefer it . Rude sacks of shit.

 

[Kulindahr]

.....or unwanted pregnancies, which somehow seem to still be going on non-stop no matter how much education. Gee ain't human nature strange that way???

hear- hear on your excellent post But don't expect to find any decent compassion discussion on HIV from the gays on here. Just judgmental self righteous "us & them". While this this bug chasing is a behavior I disagree with and likely more of a over blown gay urban legend over fact in 2013. Oh yeah you read it on a site on the Internets so it has to be the fucking truth. What is lacking is the regard expressed right here for other gay men reading this thread who likely have HIV and or know dear friends alive or dead who were not freaks of nature treated like the out kast the across the hand swipe is given making those with the disease seem even more alienated and alone. It is the big mouth nasty gay dude who spews more hate against other HIV gay men then can be witnessed in the hetero community hands down in 2013. Imagine that they are almost hated as much as smokers (or classed together) by the luscious sex gods in this thread.

I have some good friends who have HIV and if you were talking about people with HIV in the bar near me like some of you talk about gays or people with HIV in this gay forum I would put your dick in the dirt and not the way you might prefer it . Rude sacks of shit.

There is a VAST difference between people who got AIDS while trying to be safe and those who get it on purpose. The latter have something in their makeup that the human genome doesn't need -- we already have enough self- and societal-destructive stuff to deal with.

So you need to read closer -- I don't see anger at people with HIV, I see anger at people who are trying to get it, trying to pass it to others, and in general trying to do harm to the gay community and everyone else.

 

[Rolyo85]

By the way, bug chasing has NOTHING to do with passing it on. Those people aren't malicious and most of them are in circles where everyone they have sex with has it or is aware that they do. I am not saying there aren't assholes who try to infect others, but let's be honest here, and not get angry at a group of people for something they don't do, just because it's convenient to pile them up with others who do it.

 

[Kulindahr]

By the way, bug chasing has NOTHING to do with passing it on. Those people aren't malicious and most of them are in circles where everyone they have sex with has it or is aware that they do. I am not saying there aren't assholes who try to infect others, but let's be honest here, and not get angry at a group of people for something they don't do, just because it's convenient to pile them up with others who do it.

So they will never have sex with someone who isn't already positive?

 

[Rolyo85]

So they will never have sex with someone who isn't already positive?

Unlike you, I don't deal in ideal absolute statements. Sure they will. BUT to assume that because they wanted to be infected, they will not inform future partners of their status is reaching, and reaching way too much. From what testimonials I've read online, it seems to be a very personal thing for them, not some evil agenda of spreading the virus.

 

[Kulindahr]

Unlike you, I don't deal in ideal absolute statements. Sure they will. BUT to assume that because they wanted to be infected, they will not inform future partners of their status is reaching, and reaching way too much. From what testimonials I've read online, it seems to be a very personal thing for them, not some evil agenda of spreading the virus.

It's still murder.