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CA Prop 8 - news and alerts [updated & merged]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Soilwork
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Soilwork

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Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

Meh.. might not matter.

The most polls show that a majority of Californians oppose the initiative and plan to vote against it anyway.

Which would REALLY rock.
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

I meant to comment that Equality for All is a coalition of California groups working against the initiative.

You can either get involved with them or with one of the groups in the coalition. The national Human Rights Campaign has just pledged $500,000 to Equality for All.

Obviously, whatever group you go with, check out that your contributions aren't going to be eaten up in overhead and entertainment tabs. I say that because it's a good idea to do, not because I know of any issues with Equality for All or any of its coalition members.

Again:


http://www.equalityforall.com/coalition
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

Something else Mattie that I saw that slapped me in the face because I didn't realize it nor think of it, and kinda made me sick to my stomach if this turns out to be true:

Thrilled as I am, as a gay woman, that Gov. David A. Paterson wants us to have the same rights as straight couples, I am heartsick that his proposal (and California’s recognition of gay marriage) comes just before the November elections, giving the Republicans, once again, the distraction they need to get a conservative Republican elected as president.

What would happen if the Democrats waited until mid-November to raise the gay rights issue? I’ve waited so long, six more months won’t matter to me.


Ugh. One can only hope this isn't the case :(
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

The Attorneys General of 10 states (Alaska, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Michigan, Nebraska, New Hampshire, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Utah) have asked the state of California to postpone allowing gay marriage until after the November elections in the hope that the amendment will be passed. These are states that would yell "states rights" if another state attempted to interfere with their laws.
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

I'm still JUST getting used to the idea that we can marry, and now they are trying to take it away...

..well this november will be an important month for me! :D
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

And if you want to read some of the narrow mindedness idiots in the state of Missouri (or, for that fact, in the STL metro area which is very Democratic...I don't even know if the people posting live in the area actually)

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=543202&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

Some of them call others out on their crap, but it makes me sad that people still think those common stereotypes in this day and age.

I wanted to post "I can't wait until the older generations die off, so your idiot ways of rationalization die with you."

:rolleyes:

Kinda harsh I know :)
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

as long as Mccain keeps opening his mouth and saying we want to stay in Iraq, no problem with Democrats getting in
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

It's amusing to see how sadistic people can be about taking away other people's happiness, motivated by their own possessiveness and baseless fear. Did I say amusing? I meant revolting.
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

Yeah, I was at my physical therapist today when the announcement came through. As I sat there being shot with tazer fire, and I let our a cheer and then announced to the room that I was getting married again in LA.

Told them how I'd been married in Toronto and how my parents (with whom I've recently reconciled with) are flying down next week and we're doing it again.

The best weapons we have is ourselves... the best weapons we have is to let people see who they're voting against.. let them see how happy we are to be married and now "normal" we all are.. we're just people who want the same things in life.
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

The latest polls show that voters are for gay marriage. I think I saw that it was 53%. Let's hope that number grows.
Otherwise, it's a matter of educating others. Nothing else I can think of that gay Californians can do.
I hope they vote for gay marriage.
I also think that if gay couples were thinking of getting married before this, they should do it right now before it goes to the polls. Don't wait.

The key to winning this in November will be the 1000's of gay couples who will get married starting in a couple of weeks. The general population will see that two people who are in love and want to make a legal public commitment to each other does no harm to anyone else, including the institution of marriage.

A lot of minds can be swayed between now and November. It is up to each of us to discuss this with family and friends, and let them know how this amendment will cause real harm to real people. And if you can do it, come out to California and get married!(!)(!)(!)
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

I am still looking for clarity about whether this referendum amends the California constutution, even if it is called a revision.

If it doesn't amend the constitution, cannot the California Supreme Court rule that it is unconstitutional?
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

I am still looking for clarity about whether this referendum amends the California constutution, even if it is called a revision.

If it doesn't amend the constitution, cannot the California Supreme Court rule that it is unconstitutional?

Even it the initiative is passed, one can assume it'll be challenged in the Courts on whatever grounds anyone can come up with, stuff like linguistic vagueness or uncertainty.

One interesting thing I read was that that there's a whole legislative process that has to be gone through to amend the Constitution in California and that the initiative doesn't supersede that process (or maybe it's just not clear whether it can or it can't?)

If the effect of the initiative is to purport to change the California Constitution and/or to remove some anti-discrimination or equal protection or other aspect from it, the Courts may be able to strike it down for not following the correct change procedures.

So I think you're right that the initiative, if passed, would be open to constitutional and other challenges. As to what the Court would eventually decide, I'm not so sure.

The pro-initiative lawyers will have researched this. But they might have decided that they had no alternative or that the political results would be worth it, even if the initiative is ultimately thrown out by the courts.
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

^^Exactly.

An earlier poster quoted someone/thing that stated that changes to the California state constitution had to originate in the legislature or at a constitutional convention.

I'm presuming that there was already a law on the books stating that only heterosexual couples could marry before the California Supreme Court ruling last month.

If that law was ruled unconstitutional, how can a referendum pass the same law without it too being declared unconstitutional?

If a majority of California voters passed a referendum limiting free speech or religious expression, clearly that would be meaningless.
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

They are not passing a law, but rather a change to the Constitution. The idea is to make the court ruling moot. I've heard others discuss that even if it does pass, will it even make it into the Constitution? It obviously conflicts with another part of the Constitution.

But is the initiative procedure effective in changing the Constitution, when there are specific legislative requirements for changing the Constitution?

I don't know. But it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't or that it's not clear whether or not if is.

If the initiative passes, there'll likely to be more extended litigation, which, short of an out right ban on gay marriage, is what the fundies want as a rallying point for "the faithful".
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what



Oh my gosh! What an AWESOME article....make me tear up with joy several times...dang it.. ;)

Everyone should read this article.

When looking at all of the changes in just the last 10 years, it really is quite amazing considering how difficult of a fight it has been and still is! Our community has a lot to be proud of here!

Thanks for posting it MM. (*8*)
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

More good news!!!


Judge upholds ballot summary for gay-marriage measure


When the state's voters decide Proposition 8 this fall, it appears they will check "yes" or "no" next to a ballot title that reads: "Eliminates the Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry."


A Superior Court judge this morning rejected a suit filed by Prop. 8 proponents against the ballot title proposed by Attorney General Jerry Brown. Judge Timothy M. Frawley said Brown's language was neither false nor misleading, handing a victory to gay rights supporters who want a clear statement of what a constitutional ban would mean for gay couples who have married in California this year.

Prop. 8 proponents said they will file an appeal today, but time is short: The ballot title, summary and partisan ballot arguments filed by each side are due at the state printer at 5 p.m. Monday.

Prop. 8 proponents had argued that using the word "eliminates" in a ballot title and summary was argumentative, misleading and prejudicial, because it was a negative, active transitive word - grammar that had rarely, if ever, been used in a state ballot title. They preferred "Limit on Marriage," the title on petitions signed by voters that placed Prop. 8 on the November ballot.
Frawley disagreed with those arguments.

"There is nothing inherently argumentative or prejudicial about transitive verbs, and the Court is not willing to fashion a rule that would require the Attorney General to engage in useless nominalization," Frawley ruled in a decision released today.
While it was the Attorney General's office who argued the case in a hearing in Sacramento on Thursday and won the legal victory, same-sex marriage advocates were pleased.


"We believe the title and summary is very accurate," Geoff Kors, executive director of Equality California, said following the decision today. "There's no disputing what this measure does. First and foremost, what it does is eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in the state of California."
Prop. 8 supporters argued that Brown failed in his statutory duty to draft an impartial title and summary for the ballot.

"We believe the Attorney General has attempted to influence voters against this measure," said Andrew Pugno, the lawyer who argued the case for Prop. 8 supporters. "It is our goal to ensure that voters have a fair opportunity to decide this measure for themselves on Election Day."

From Brown's point of view, the question was about who is engaging in politics.
"This lawsuit was more about politics than the law," the Attorney General said in a statement. "The court properly dismissed it."

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_10140389?nclick_check=1&forced=true&tr=y&auid=3894964
 
Re: Gay marriage ban qualifies for CA ballot-what

Los Angeles Times Endorses NO on 8


Reneging on a right




ENDORSEMENTS

It's the same sentence as in 2000: "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California." Yet the issue that will be put before voters Nov. 4 is radically different. This time, the wording would be used to rescind an existing constitutional right to marry. We fervently hope that voters, whatever their personal or religious convictions, will shudder at such a step and vote no on Proposition 8.

The state of same-sex marriage shifted in May, when the California Supreme Court overturned Proposition 22, the ban on gay marriage that voters approved eight years ago, and ruled that marriage was a fundamental right under the state Constitution. As such, it could not be denied to a protected group -- in this case, gay and lesbian couples.


What voters must consider about Proposition 8 is that, unlike Proposition 22, this is no longer about refining existing California law. In the wake of the court's ruling, the only way to deny marriage to gay and lesbian couples is by revising constitutional rights themselves. Proposition 8 seeks to embed wording in the Constitution that would eliminate the fundamental right to same-sex marriage.

It's a rare and drastic step, invoking the constitutional-amendment process to strip people of rights. Yet in California, it can be done with a simple majority vote. All the more reason for voters to weigh carefully what would be wrought by this measure.

Supporters of Proposition 8 insist that the measure is in no way intended to diminish the rights of gays and lesbians, but instead means to encourage ideal households for the raising of children and to put a stop to activist judges. Besides, they say, domestic partnerships provide all the same rights as marriage.


In a meeting with The Times' editorial board, supporters argued at length that children are best off when raised by their own biological, married mothers and fathers. Even if that were true -- and there is much room for dispute -- this measure in no way moves society closer to such a traditional picture. Gay and lesbian couples already are raising their own children and will continue to do so, as will single parents and adoptive and blended families. Using the supporters'own reasoning, it would be better for same-sex parents to marry.

Proposition 8 supporters are right that domestic partnerships come exceedingly close to guaranteeing the same rights as marriage, as the state's high court recognized. Still, there are differences. Some are statutory -- domestic partners must share a residence, while married couples can live separately -- and others are pragmatic -- studies have found that domestic partners do not receive the same treatment or recognition from hospital staff, employers and the public as spouses do.

But it was Ronald M. George, chief justice of the California Supreme Court, who cut through to the essence of the issue in the May 15 opinion he wrote: "[A]ffording same-sex couples only a separate and differently named family relationship will, as a realistic matter, impose appreciable harm on same-sex couples and their children, because denying such couples access to the familiar and highly favored designation of marriage is likely to cast doubt on whether the official family relationship of same-sex couples enjoys dignity equal to that of opposite-sex couples."

In other words, the very act of denying gay and lesbian couples the right to marry -- traditionally the highest legal and societal recognition of a loving commitment -- by definition relegates them and their relationships to second-class status, separate and not all that equal.

To be sure, the court overturned Proposition 22, a vote of the people. That is the court's duty when a law is unconstitutional, even if it is exceedingly popular. Civil rights are commonly hard-won, and not the result of widespread consensus. Whites in the South vehemently rejected the 1954 Supreme Court decision to desegregate schools. For that matter, Californians have accused the state Supreme Court of obstructing the people's will on marriage before -- in 1948, when it struck down a ban on interracial marriages.

Fundamental rights are exactly that. They should neither wait for popular acceptance, nor be revoked because it is lacking.


http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-marriage8-2008aug08,0,1229155.story?tr=y&auid=3894965
 
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