Can A Gay Guy Go Bi?

[Level27]

You're trying to elude their coming out process by telling them to simply not care so much about it ("Anything goes"). This is unfair, because they want to celebrate a specific new thing about them, and it is the very "label" of it that helps them come out verbally.

(On a side note, you yourself used a label on your own sexual orientation, did you not? Bi leaning slightly gay, were it?)

 

[jasoncrew03]

I don't see why not.

 

[versatileplayer]

You're trying to elude their coming out process by telling them to simply not care so much about it ("Anything goes"). This is unfair, because they want to celebrate a specific new thing about them, and it is the very "label" of it that helps them come out verbally.

(On a side note, you yourself used a label on your own sexual orientation, did you not? Bi leaning slightly gay, were it?)

I guess my culture finds such attention seeking distasteful and dysfunctional. I think you might be taking considerable liberty in speaking for them as well.

Your posts consists primarily of conjecture as to the feelings of these men. Your conjecture as to my intentions is completely off base as well.

Here is my advice to these men: Celebrate and exercise your sexuality, enjoy it, and instead of stressing about what label you think you need, create your own instead.

Here is my position on my own sexuality - "Whatever - roll with it - fuck and enjoy it - the meter is running."

Have I clarified my position adequately? If not, please just ask, I'm quite capable of expressing myself and speaking on my own behalf.

 

[Level27]

I guess my culture finds such attention seeking distasteful and dysfunctional. Please tell me where the "attention-seeking" is. As far as I'm concerned, non of these out-of-the-closet bisexual guys have done anything but shared their experiences of being closeted bi and then coming out. I think you might be taking considerable liberty in speaking for them as well. As someone who has for many months read the different ideas and experiences from out-bisexual men (not to mention the attention I gave to each of the ones who've posted here in this thread), I think I have a fair-enough knowledge to speak in general terms on their behalf. Of course, if anything I say is not in line with any of them, he is more than welcome to correct me at any time with no grudge attached on my part. (Of course, if they can express it in a non-intimidating way, I would be happy. Unless, of course, I was somehow intimidating to him...)

Your posts consists primarily of conjecture as to the feelings of these men. Your conjecture as to my intentions is completely off base as well. I could easily apply both of these to you. First of all, you speak so much about labels, and yet, none of these guys have labeled themselves, nor have they seemed to have done anything to draw attention to themselves. Again, unless you would like to point out to me where they have specifically done these.

Secondly, I was never pointing a finger at you like you seem to think I am. Your original message was, basically, who cares? Gay guys are gay guys, bi guys are bi. One will have sex with what feels good for the person. What's the big deal and why does it matter? I was only explaining to you that you have a good point and that it doesn't matter but that it's also good for a lot of these people to express their coming out as bi experience. When you asked "why it matters" in your original post, I was merely answering your question: for these guys, it does matter for so and so reason. (Otherwise, they wouldn't care enough to have content in their heads to post it here in the first place, right?) Just sayin'.

Here is my advice to these men: Celebrate and exercise your sexuality, enjoy it, and instead of stressing about what label you think you need, create your own instead. Again, bud, no one brought up labels except you. And yes, they are celebrating and should celebrate it if they want to. And, I encourage it too.


...


Have I clarified my position adequately? If not, please just ask, I'm quite capable of expressing myself and speaking on my own behalf. According to all that you have post thus far, babe, my understanding of your message has been crystal from the beginning. You're just not understanding my specific response to you and the specific nuances in your message.

<3 <3 <3

 

[vforvendetta]

I have to say that reading this thread has been rather fascinating from start to finish. I guess a lot of it has to do with the whole "social acceptance" thing someone mentioned earlier - if you come out as 'gay', people understand a seemingly cut-dry definition of your sexual interests. Bisexual has a rather murky meaning to it, and has a broad range as to what it could entail. My own fear with such a label is that people make assumptions as to where you lie on that bisexual spectrum if you declare yourself such.

Having had time to think things over, I really do believe in fluidity of sexuality for the vast majority of people; of course, there are those who simply don't change and that's fine too, but I think to remain static your entire life is more than likely pretty rare.

I guess on a closing note for this post, I don't think people should get too upset or technical about it. We're all here because we have a sexual interest in other men in some way, form, or fashion, and in that we support each other because we understand, at least to some degree, what others might be going through. That's what makes us a community. Labeling has some uses, but at the same time, worrying about it really can cause quite a bit of harm.

Just my two cents, feel free to rip it apart if you like.

 

[AsianDream]

You're trying to elude their coming out process by telling them to simply not care so much about it ("Anything goes"). This is unfair, because they want to celebrate a specific new thing about them, and it is the very "label" of it that helps them come out verbally.

(On a side note, you yourself used a label on your own sexual orientation, did you not? Bi leaning slightly gay, were it?)

I'm from a family culture where "comming out" is just not an option (I certainly never "came out" as Gay and don't intend to do so as BI).

However I know from my own experience - having been exclusively gay before - that a Gay Guy can Go Bi.

However - like some others on this thread - I've found labels do matter to some of my gay friends - and some of them did have issues with the idea that people's sexuality can change.

 

[AsianDream]

Since you've successfully changed your orientation from gay to bi, do you ever see yourself going completely straight?

One thing some people don’t like is the idea that sexual orientation can change.

In my case – I’ve no idea if I was always BI inside and didn’t know it – and I’ve got no opinion on if sexual orientation is fixed at birth (or by genetics) or can change.

I could never see myself not being strongly sexually attracted to other guys. I think men actually find it easier to know their own desires than women do – it’s not exactly difficult for guys to know what makes us get an erection.

I despise the “Evangelical” idea of trying to change people’s sexuality – what I like sexually is purely my own choice.

In my case – given my first sexual experience was with a guy – I knew I totally loved this – it was only after a long while - by pure chance I found that I liked women just as much.

I guess for me – due to cultural and family factors – deciding to “become straight” would make my life simpler – but it’s just not worth it – I believe I’m only going to live once (though was raised Buddhist) and going to make the most of it.

 

[vforvendetta]

At the risk of going slightly off-topic, I think a lot of people feel somewhat threatened by this notion because in their minds it could potentially affirm that "ex-gay" programs can work. However, there's a huge logical gaffe here in that "ex-gay" programs use brainwashing and fear in an attempt to quickly change a person's sexual behaviors (and most certainly not their actual sexuality). If we were to accept the idea of sexual fluidity, I think most of us would agree that these shifts are small changes over a long period of time and typically nothing radical - normal changes due to personal experiences, and possibly shifting brain chemistry etc. Indeed, this process also goes in either direction - gay towards straight, straight towards gay, bi towards gay, etc. I don't think accepting this, what I see as very natural, process weakens any point in our demand for equal rights.

 

[Level27]

I'm from a family culture where "comming out" is just not an option (I certainly never "came out" as Gay and don't intend to do so as BI).

However I know from my own experience - having been exclusively gay before - that a Gay Guy can Go Bi.

Did you think you were exclusively gay before but then realized that you were bi? And, more importantly, did you accept it afterwards? And, did you felt joy and wanted to share the experience with other people?

(To clarify if needed, I'm being rhetorical with these questions, but for the sake of making my point, please answer them anyways. haha)

On a different tangeant, what culture is your family? I know that for certain asian people, being accepted as gay in asian community and as asian in the gay community is an utter nightmare. Is this something that you experience?

 

[Calagang]

how terrible!!!

actually...i'm pretty much the same. i've always been attracted to guys, but over the past few years and especially lately, i've become more and more sexually attracted to women. no need to worry...just do what you like. nobody's "normal"

you are just becoming a Bi, nothing to worry about.

 

[AsianDream]

Did you think you were exclusively gay before but then realized that you were bi? And, more importantly, did you accept it afterwards? And, did you felt joy and wanted to share the experience with other people?

(To clarify if needed, I'm being rhetorical with these questions, but for the sake of making my point, please answer them anyways. haha)

On a different tangeant, what culture is your family? I know that for certain asian people, being accepted as gay in asian community and as asian in the gay community is an utter nightmare. Is this something that you experience?

I did start sexual activity with guys quite young (though of legal age in Macao) and guess I was fairly asexual before then.

I’m from Hong Kong – though have just finished 7 years study in OZ (still here for the moment). At least in my family homosexuality would be completely unthinkable –and none of them ever found out – though I’ve got quite a few gay friends back there – but totally separate to my normal life there. In OZ there are quite a lot of gay Asian guys (at least in the big cities) and there’s no issue at all with race.

I only discovered I liked women as well as a result of being persuaded to take part in mixed group sex (though had often done this with all guys). For me it was an almost instant realisation – also guess I’m one of those people who if they like something – they like it a lot.

I had some identity worries at first – also I did tell my gay friends about it and some didn’t react very well. One close gay friend did have the view that there’s no such thing as BI-sexuality – but he’s OK about it now.

I like talking about sex a lot – I guess my main problem is both being “In The Closet” and a sexual exhibitionist. So in mainstream society I’m a typical reserved Asian – while in the other compartment of my life am very uninhibited (like in gay venues and saunas / Bathhouses etc).

 

[versatileplayer]

At the risk of going slightly off-topic, I think a lot of people feel somewhat threatened by this notion because in their minds it could potentially affirm that "ex-gay" programs can work. However, there's a huge logical gaffe here in that "ex-gay" programs use brainwashing and fear in an attempt to quickly change a person's sexual behaviors (and most certainly not their actual sexuality). If we were to accept the idea of sexual fluidity, I think most of us would agree that these shifts are small changes over a long period of time and typically nothing radical - normal changes due to personal experiences, and possibly shifting brain chemistry etc. Indeed, this process also goes in either direction - gay towards straight, straight towards gay, bi towards gay, etc. I don't think accepting this, what I see as very natural, process weakens any point in our demand for equal rights.

Well don't underestimate the power of stupidity, guilt and jealousy. Many are not sexually happy, and they project their sexual frustrations onto other people in the form of sexual puritanism. They want the world to be just as miserable and sexually frustrated as they are.

The true flaw in the "ex-gay" issue, is that they haven't had one success story. Those who claim, or have claimed to be "cured" admit they continue to have desire for sex with people of their own gender. They deny themselves, and this is "success." That's not turning a gay person straight, that it turning a person from adjusted to maladjusted.

But this position is far too complicated to be communicated in a political slogan. People will outwardly project the sexuality they want the world to perceive, not their true sexuality. Remember when Cyndy Lauper's "She Bop" about female masterbation was considered controversial? Oh my - women masterbate! Women aren't even supposed to have sexual desires! Remember when it was controversial for a woman to admit to sucking cock?

Personally, I think it's healthier and more direct to call people out on their own absurdity. In a recent study 48% of men admitted to having a sexual experience with another male. Human sexuality is expressive, curious, wonderful.......

 

[Waylord]

I consider myself gay - I have a loving relationship with my boyfriend since more than twenty years, and gay porn makes me very hard. 99,5% of the women I see in the street do nothing for me. But... I love to watch bi porn, especially if two guys are licking the same woman - and even more so if the woman is a bbw. I even think I would participate (in theory, we don´t have an open relationship) if I found the guy/s sexy... My favorite porn stars are hung, young muscular guys who suck cock and lick male ass, take dicks up their ass and also fuck and lick women. And if the men are into (male) watersports, too, it makes me drool. The weirdest is, that looking straight/bi porn did very little for me for many years. Sexuality is a funny thing.

 

[Frenchie]

Only the desert Go bi ^^

 

[Lefty]

Yes,

On e-bay they can go bi or sell or trade,

even go bid if they want.

 

[Level27]

^^^absolutely

 

[Level27]

Just that exhibitionism and "attention-seeking" is not in my view dysfunctional.

Like "Wanker" - it's often used as an insult - but something most of us do and enjoy to some extent.

Yes, and by saying such, you are in agreement with my point. You do know that, right?

 

[Lefty]

Level, we often disagree...

it seldom turns to mud slinging

That disagreeing is exhibitionism

We are exhibiting decorum, respect and the wisdom

to realize there are other opinions.

I think you are 'preaching to the choir' here and

wasting time you could utilize in a more meaningful

manner in a thread that can sty on track, not play

with nit pickers and argue for argues sake posters.

JMHO

an.

 

[Lefty]

Well Mr. Level,

You certainly seem to have put me in my place.

Here I thought I had your backcovered.....

Fuck, now I've got my blood on the carpet...

Luckily, I won't bleed out....I don't bleed much

 

[Level27]

Hmmm. I was hoping that the mods would delete the entire petty convo (per my request in the "Report Post" feature), but I guess they decided to delete only my responses and have left Lefty's posts up as well as the post in which they were in response to...

Anyways, Lefty, I come to realize that I owe you a rather big apology today. Having reflected on my posts, I can understand why you thought I was a bit hostile in my responses towards you. And, I agree with it. You were undeserving of my abrasive, sharply ill-humbled attitude, regardless of whether or not you were plausible in calling me out for what seemed to be my snarkling argumentativeness.

(On that end, I also realize that you hit me hard on the head: after evaluating the situation and my responses to you and asiandreams, I really was "arguing" mostly over nothing. Remember how I said that my response to AsianDream was over his mis-reading my intentions? Well, in truth, it's quite the opposite: I think I was mis-reading him! How do you like that? )

Regardless of what the reason might be (my usual excuse, as is most people's, is that I'm having a lousy day, but I'm not planning on using that one here), I think I have a tendency to quickly assume personal attacks where non is intended. Maybe it's my (half(?)-nonsensical) thinking that the world is out to get me at times.

All in all, my behaviour was a bit uncalled for. I am sorry that I caused any hurt/upset feelings. Hope we still chat in the future, and I hope we can continue to be an inspiration to each other, however it's done and for what it's worth.