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Carter baking a bundt cake for Hamas

Gun control.
Hamas.

In both situations, you extend condemnation to the victims and encouragement to those who would victimize.

Let's revisit your final paragraph:

Britain has been as much the aggressor as has Germany. The U2 rockets that are fired into England are in deed terrorist acts, but British air strikes, and blockades of essential goods and services to Germany's allies do nothing but prolong the conflict. Both these groups operate on the ancient concept of an eye for an eye. A sure way to prolong conflict.

No discussion. You fail to see the bigger picture Kuli. I'm saying there is no resolution possible until the Old Testament concept of an eye for an eye is no longer applicable to the politics of the region. How many times have we been shown sobbing women on TV from attacks by either side moaning for revenge after their house was destroyed and or a loved one (s) killed, maimed or just injured? Revenge is no solution to the mess. More guns is no solution to the mess.

As an aside, here in America, there is discussion of putting guns in our schools now. All that will accomplish is the possibility of even more deadly shoot outs in the halls of education. Seriously STUPID thinking in my humble opinion. Of course, I know you won't agree with me. You never see the rational side of gun control.
 
Just for the record...Yes, just for the record. . .
Many of the people in Gaza are stuck there because they haven't been allowed by Egypt to settle there. During the recent 'crisis', Egypt could have easily opened the border and let people out of Gaza. Why should Egypt allow the Palestinians to settle in Egypt? That is akin to the US throwing open our Southern border to anyone who wants to come in. I doubt you would agree to that if it happened here. Arab nations flowing with oil wealth could help ease the situation by offering aid to any who would settle elsewhere. Gaza is under a controlled boycott by Israel. Not even US or UN aid is allowed to pass into Gaza, much less Arab aid which Israel would be suspect of in any case. Just as the people are not allowed to pass out of Gaza.
But do they? No. Because of Israeli policy regarding the people of Gaza as terrorists even if they are not. The situation is little different than it was at the beginning of all this: the Palestinian Arabs have been disowned by their fellow Arabs, who even give them a new ethnicity, "Palestinian", so they don't have to remember that these are kin. I think you fail to understand the situation. The Palestinians were there where Israel now exists, when the Jews were placed there by the British and Americans in 1948. The Palestinian people were not consulted, nor were the rest of the Arab countries in the region. The lack of concern, or even knowledge of tribal conflicts in the region by both Great Britain and America in 1948, and the continuing lack of understanding of these conflicts by the current American administration only serves to compound the violence and conflict in the reigon. They are willing to manipulate these kin, to use them for their own ends, but will they be neighbors to them? will they extend a helping hand? No. They have offered, but Israel stands in the way.

There have been voices speaking against how the west perceives the region long before the 1948 imposition of the Jews on the region. For enlightenment, read T. E. Lawrence's book "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom", or at least watch the magnificent film that only touches briefly on the politics of the Arabs, but is enlightening in itself, especially the early on water hole scene. "Lawrence of Arabia." The whole Western imposition of the Jews into Palestine in 1948 reeks of racism and antisemitism by the Western powers.
 
Carter's trip is completely irrelevant to U.S. Middle-eastern policy. He is just trying desperately to remain relevant to politics.

Nothing will come of this. He just wants his name in the headlines.

He would paint his ass blue and walk down Broadway backwards if he thought that would give him more media attention.
 
I'd say the big concern about Carter going is that once more the terrorists will stand there smiling and stealing the prestige and implied blessing of an American president, and once he's gone go back to more indiscriminate slaughter of innocents.

So long as the leadership of Hamas countenance such slaughter, they don't deserve to be treated with as human beings. Let them bring out those who have planned and continue to plan such barbarity, and execute them publicly by beheading in the marketplace, and there will be room for talk -- one does not talk with murderers, and until those in Hamas who carry out murder are brought out and given justice, the leadership is properly counted with murderers.

Carter has been duped before, so I won't wish him well -- I'll wish, instead, for a miracle, that he see these men for what they truly are, and describe that truly to the world, so that all may know what the region's one democracy is up against.

I find it interesting that so many people wring their hands for the deaths of Israelis, but no one sheds a tear for the innumerable civilian deaths if Palestinians at the hands of the far better equipped and (one would think) better trained IDF.

It is a pity that no one cries for the destruction of Palestinian infrastructure or the demolition of homes by the IDF. It is a shame that no one seems to care that, after causing deaths and injuries to the civilian populations the IDF sees fot to then impede any and all attempts on the part of medical personnel to aid and assist the victims of their wonton hubris.

It is a shame that people assume that, with no food, no fuel, no electricity, no access to jobs, and pretty much no sense of dignity under the conditions imposed upon them, that the Palestinian people are expected by people who should really know better to sit docilely and simply take the abuse peacefully and without complaint.

I defy any of you Israel defenders to live under the conditions that Palestinians must endure for one week without completely losing your minds. It is so easy to sit in judgement of these people and the methods they use to defend themselves when you are nowhere near aware of what they have had to suffer at the hands of the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Hamas may be murderers, OK, I'll run with that. But so is the military apparatus of the IDF. For a body which considers itself a "defence" force, they have been on the offensive for many years now and it is only the Palestinian people who continue to suffer for it.

Whatever criticisms one may wish to lodge against President Carter, at least he is doing something to end the conflict and attempt to bring about some sort of peace, something with which he has a great amount of experience. Israel and the United States have demonstrated time and again that they have no interest in peace, and have done nothing to help to bring it about.

I would love to know what it is that those of you who are displeased with President Carter's trip would suggest be done instead in order to bring about an end to this disgusting and deplorable situation. Any thoughts???
 
Gun control.
Hamas.

In both situations, you extend condemnation to the victims and encouragement to those who would victimize.

Let's revisit your final paragraph:

Britain has been as much the aggressor as has Germany. The U2 rockets that are fired into England are in deed terrorist acts, but British air strikes, and blockades of essential goods and services to Germany's allies do nothing but prolong the conflict. Both these groups operate on the ancient concept of an eye for an eye. A sure way to prolong conflict.

I will use one of your favourite words here. You, sir, are being VERY disingenuous here, and I believe that even you know it.
 
Just for the record...
Many of the people in Gaza are stuck there because they haven't been allowed by Egypt to settle there. During the recent 'crisis', Egypt could have easily opened the border and let people out of Gaza. Arab nations flowing with oil wealth could help ease the situation by offering aid to any who would settle elsewhere.
But do they? No. The situation is little different than it was at the beginning of all this: the Palestinian Arabs have been disowned by their fellow Arabs, who even give them a new ethnicity, "Palestinian", so they don't have to remember that these are kin. They are willing to manipulate these kin, to use them for their own ends, but will they be neighbors to them? will they extend a helping hand? No.

This is such garbage that I do not even know how an intelligent person can have written and posted such a comment without a shameful cringe.

The first widespread use of "Palestinian" as an endonym to refer to the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people by the Arabs of Palestine began prior to the outbreak of World War I,[3] and the first demand for Syrian-Palestinian national independence was issued by the Syrian-Palestinian Congress on 21 September 1921.[4] After the exodus of 1948, and even more so after the exodus of 1967, the term came to signify not only a place of origin, but the sense of a shared past and future in the form of a Palestinian nation-state.[3]

During the British Mandate of Palestine, the term "Palestinian" was used to refer to all people residing there, regardless of religion or ethnicity, and those granted citizenship by the Mandatory authorities were granted "Palestinian citizenship".[13] Following the 1948 establishment of the State of Israel as the national homeland of the Jewish people, the use and application of the terms "Palestine" and "Palestinian" by and to Palestinian Jews largely dropped from use. The English-language newspaper The Palestine Post for example — which, since 1932, primarily served the Jewish community in the British Mandate of Palestine — changed its name in 1950 to The Jerusalem Post. Jews in Israel and the West Bank today generally identify as Israelis. Arab citizens of Israel identify themselves as Israeli and/or Palestinian and/or Arab.[14]

The Palestinian National Charter, as amended by the PLO's Palestine National Council in July 1968, defined "Palestinians" as: "those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father — whether in Palestine or outside it — is also a Palestinian."[15] This definition also extends to, "The Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist invasion."

Walid Khalidi writes that Palestinians in Ottoman times were "[a]cutely aware of the distinctiveness of Palestinian history ..." and that "[a]lthough proud of their Arab heritage and ancestry, the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial, including the ancient Hebrews and the Canaanites before them."[19]

(Bold-lettering mine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian

I am so fed up with the radical zionists and their attempts at changing, manipulating and outright lying about historical facts in order to have them fit the illusion that there was no one living in Palestine when the Zionists arrived, and that the Palestinian identity is some brand new invention. This is a lie and a blatant corruption of the facts.
 
Clearly you choose to see only one side of this issue, when there are several.

Thank you. Unfortuantely this is an all too common element in the discourse with radical Zionists and their supporters. It does not in any way provide for constructive dialogue, but then again, that is not what they want. They simply wish to impose their views upon the world and have anyone with divergent views simply sit down and shut up. Sadly for them, many people are finally beginning to see through this and, rather than sitting down and shutting up, are beginning to speak more loudly and more forcefully, demanding a change. I am pleased to be a part of that group.
 
Carter's trip is completely irrelevant to U.S. Middle-eastern policy. He is just trying desperately to remain relevant to politics.

Nothing will come of this. He just wants his name in the headlines.

He would paint his ass blue and walk down Broadway backwards if he thought that would give him more media attention.


HaHaHa....

The above response made me laugh out loud, and I am in total agreement.

The Ass....AKA, Carter.....should try painting his ass blue like suggested.

Poor Jimmy.....
 
Thank you. Unfortuantely this is an all too common element in the discourse with radical Zionists and their supporters. It does not in any way provide for constructive dialogue, but then again, that is not what they want. They simply wish to impose their views upon the world and have anyone with divergent views simply sit down and shut up. Sadly for them, many people are finally beginning to see through this and, rather than sitting down and shutting up, are beginning to speak more loudly and more forcefully, demanding a change. I am pleased to be a part of that group.

Yes, and so am I. Black and white views of the problem no longer suffice, but most Americans can't be bothered to learn anything about the issues to really be of help. They continue to snuggle in their cocoons of ignorance.
 
Carter's trip is completely irrelevant to U.S. Middle-eastern policy. He is just trying desperately to remain relevant to politics.

Nothing will come of this. He just wants his name in the headlines.

He would paint his ass blue and walk down Broadway backwards if he thought that would give him more media attention.

How cynical and negative a perception you have of a man with a good heart. Would you rather we just continue bush's policies, and see more bloodshed and starvation? You must be a real sweat guy.
 
I find it interesting that so many people wring their hands for the deaths of Israelis, but no one sheds a tear for the innumerable civilian deaths if Palestinians at the hands of the far better equipped and (one would think) better trained IDF.

It is a pity that no one cries for the destruction of Palestinian infrastructure or the demolition of homes by the IDF. It is a shame that no one seems to care that, after causing deaths and injuries to the civilian populations the IDF sees fot to then impede any and all attempts on the part of medical personnel to aid and assist the victims of their wonton hubris.

It is a shame that people assume that, with no food, no fuel, no electricity, no access to jobs, and pretty much no sense of dignity under the conditions imposed upon them, that the Palestinian people are expected by people who should really know better to sit docilely and simply take the abuse peacefully and without complaint.

I defy any of you Israel defenders to live under the conditions that Palestinians must endure for one week without completely losing your minds. It is so easy to sit in judgement of these people and the methods they use to defend themselves when you are nowhere near aware of what they have had to suffer at the hands of the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Hamas may be murderers, OK, I'll run with that. But so is the military apparatus of the IDF. For a body which considers itself a "defence" force, they have been on the offensive for many years now and it is only the Palestinian people who continue to suffer for it.

Whatever criticisms one may wish to lodge against President Carter, at least he is doing something to end the conflict and attempt to bring about some sort of peace, something with which he has a great amount of experience. Israel and the United States have demonstrated time and again that they have no interest in peace, and have done nothing to help to bring it about.

I would love to know what it is that those of you who are displeased with President Carter's trip would suggest be done instead in order to bring about an end to this disgusting and deplorable situation. Any thoughts???

Well said Chalchalero. To answer your last question in your post, these people would approve genocide for the Palestinians. They are part of the America's new Malaise, they have lost the ability to care for humanity. They are part of the soulless contingent America has been busy building since Ronald Reagan. They always take the inhuman position. Once you understand there is no hope for them, they are easier to ignore. None of your insightful arguments will touch them, they are incapable. They believe the gun and the bomb is the answer to everything.
 
I stand by what I say. Mr. Carter's actions have proven only to be self serving...period.
 
This is poor argumentation. You can't win a debate by simply calling to contrast another's actions. Carter's ineptness has nothing to do with Bush. They stand and fall on their own merit. I wasn't arguing anything, and granted Carter did appear inept as a president due to the Repuglican opposition to his every reform, but since he has left office he has been far more effective in spreading Democracy peacefully than George Bush would be if he lived as president for a thousand years. There is a fundamental difference of perception of our role in the world. Carter is truthful, and helpful. Bush is a fucking liar, and destructive.

As for the whole "zionist" movement, the Palestinians were offered (and I believe the offer stands) statehood. They've rejected it opting to continue to fight for the day when Israel is removed. Frankly, Israel should just take Gaza and the West Bank back. If the Arabs and other Islamists think so highly of them, when not carve out part of southern Jordon, Lebanon, and western Saudi Arabia for them? Because it's not about Palestine it's about destroying Israel. You are awfully free with other country's national sovereignty, which immediately exposes your lack of understanding of the problem.Would you care to offer sources for your claim?

They haven't been offered anything but they have been demanding a state of their own. The situation is similar to our own Civil War. We were all the same people who developed a strong difference of opinion about the future of our country. Only the Palestinians don't have a country. They have two small ghettos that Israel controls totally.

The only Middle East government actively proposing to wipe Israel off the map is Iran, and that has been almost a joke, as Amadinajhad uses it to torment Bush and Chaney, neither of whom has a since of reality about the Middle East. Or a sense of humor either, apparently.
 
I stand by what I say. Mr. Carter's actions have proven only to be self serving...period.

Not only are your blinders large they apparently are very thick as well. You use the same inane arguments of the Repugs he found himself up against in Congress while he was President. You are repeating the party line from a long time ago. Several Repuglican presidents have asked him to act as a kind of ambassador at large for their governments. So all of you Pugs don't seem to be in agreement. Maybe your copy of the agenda is way out of date. Why don't you send off for a new one please, we get tired of hearing the same ol' shit from those of you who don't bother to keep up with the times.
 
This is poor argumentation. You can't win a debate by simply calling to contrast another's actions. Carter's ineptness has nothing to do with Bush. They stand and fall on their own merit.

As for the whole "zionist" movement, the Palestinians were offered (and I believe the offer stands) statehood. They've rejected it opting to continue to fight for the day when Israel is removed. Frankly, Israel should just take Gaza and the West Bank back. If the Arabs and other Islamists think so highly of them, when not carve out part of southern Jordon, Lebanon, and western Saudi Arabia for them? Because it's not about Palestine it's about destroying Israel.

Had to jump in on this one.

First of all, I will be the first to agree that Carter was not the greatest President this country has ever seen. But when you refer to him as inept, it seems to me that you are referring to his entire being as inept and not just certain aspects of his four year term.

It seems that all of you who look down your noses at one of the wisest statesmen alive today seem to forget that it was this "inept" man who was responsible for bringing Israel and Egypt together at Camp David, leading to the 1979 Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (after only 13 days of negotiations!) for which he won a Nobel Peace Prize by the way.

He was successful in his efforts despite the fact that these talks took place only five years after the Yom Kippur War, and sensibilities on both sides were still a bit raw as one might imagine. This also despite the fact that, like today, there were the radical Zionists jumping up and down yelling and screaming about what a betrayal it would be for these talks to even take place. This despite the fact that Egypt's allies in the war, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Albania threatened to declare war on Egypt if a peace treaty was signed. This despite the fact that Yugoslavia and Albania threatened to attack Egypt if the latter did not revoke its recognition of Israel.

While most of the work here was successful due to the self interests of both Egypt and Israel, the fact of the matter is that it would not have succeeded without the participation of the United States (President Carter) and would most DEFINITELY not have succeeded if he were inept.

A great many of you who criticise President Carter are too young to have lived under his term of Presidency, and I had not yet arrived in the United States. But I, at least am aware that this was a man of integrity and principle, but also great intelligence and a strong will for peace to succeed. It was this aversion to conflict which led to some of his more disastrous decisions I believe, but this does not make him inept, but rather the only President with a conscience that this country has had since JFK and since.

It seems to be fashionable on these threads for those who know nothing about the man to deride him and call him names (quite mature, by the way...), but this of course does nothing to change the fact that the majority of you know absolutely nothing about the man. It would be wonderful if you could possibly list all of the reasons why you think him to be inept. I am curious to know. I am also reminded of the advice my grandmother gave me when I was a child:

Better to keep quiet and allow others to assume you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

I will address your skewed view of what you refer to as the "whole 'zionist movement" in my next post, as I need to get something to eat, and there is just too much to say to that statement.
 
As for the whole "zionist" movement, the Palestinians were offered (and I believe the offer stands) statehood. They've rejected it opting to continue to fight for the day when Israel is removed. Frankly, Israel should just take Gaza and the West Bank back. If the Arabs and other Islamists think so highly of them, when not carve out part of southern Jordon, Lebanon, and western Saudi Arabia for them? Because it's not about Palestine it's about destroying Israel.

I can now fully dedicate myself to addressing this comment. First, a little history for you:

According to Fred M. Donner, Professor of Near Eastern History, The Oriental Institute, The University of Chicago in a letter to the Princeton Alumni Weekly http://www.princeton.edu/~paw/web_exclusives/more/more_letters/letters_doran.html

[C]heck it out in the standard works on the Palestine-Israel conflict by Professors Charles D. Smith, Mark Tessler, or Deborah J. Gerner, from which I draw the following: The population of Palestine (west of the Jordan river) in 1880 was under 590,000, of whom 96 percent were Arabs (Muslim or Christian); roughly 4 percent of the population was Jewish.

By 1914, the population of Palestine was about 650,000. Of this, the Jewish population was about 80,000, or a little over 12 percent. Of the 88 percent remaining, 570,000 people, Israeli and non-Israeli scholars estimate that at least 550,000 were Palestinians (Christian or Muslim) who were descendants of families in Palestine already in the 1840s — or almost 85 percent of the total 1914 populaton of Palestine. The great majority of them, in other words, were not recent immigrants.

There was a lot of immigration to Palestine between 1880 and 1948, of course, but most of it was by European Jews, who came in several well-defined aliyot ("waves"), drawn to Palestine by the Zionist dream or fleeing economic hardship and persecution in Europe. The first aliya (up to 1903) brought 25,000 new Jewish immigrants, roughly doubling the Jewish population of Palestine.

The second aliya (1904-1913) brought another 35,000 Jews. The third aliya (1919-1939) saw the arrival of 350,664 Jewish immigrants, according to British Mandate statistics.

In 1945, the Jewish population of Palestine stood at about 554,000, or about 30.6 percent of the total population of Palestine at that time, which was 1.8 million. Mr. Schell is absolutely right: Some Jewish communities have existed in Palestine for hundreds of years. But, as the figures above make clear, most Jews in Israel today are, in relative terms, newcomers — descendants of people who arrived during the past three or four generations; to call them "colonists,"....is not inappropriate.


He continues:

As we see, most Palestinians of today can trace their ancestry to families who have been resident in Palestine for hundreds of years. The debate over immigration figures is, of course, merely part of the broader effort by Palestinians and Israelis to delegitimize each other by claiming the other side to be interlopers. [The author's correspondent's] evident desire to cast doubt on the historical roots of the Palestinians' claim to their land suggests that he has been taken in, like many other people, by such works as Joan Peters's tract "From Time Immemorial," which popularized for obvious political purposes the myth that many Palestinians were descendants of recent immigrants.Such a view is simply not supported by the evidence.

The reason I begin with this information is in order that you might better understand the next part a bit better.

According to Avraham Sela in The Continuum Political Encycolpedia of the Middle East:

During the time of the British Mandate, the Balfour Declaration, signed in 1917, stated that the government of the United Kingdom supported the establishment of a "Jewish national home" in Palestine. This exacerbated tensions between the Arabs living in Mandate Palestine and the Jews who emigrated there during the Ottoman period. Signed in January 1919, the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement promoted Arab-Jewish cooperation on the development of a Jewish National Homeland in Palestine and an Arab nation in a large part of the Middle East, though this event had little to no effect on the conflict.

In 1922 the League of Nations formally established the British Mandate for Palestine and Transjordan by assigning all of the land east of the Jordan River to the Emirate of Jordan, ruled by Hashemite King Abdullah but closely dependent on Britain, leaving the remainder west of the Jordan as the League of Nations British mandate of Palestine. The semi-autonomous Arab Emirate of Transjordan was later created in all Palestinian territory east of the Jordan river (roughly 77% of the mandate).

The following is attributed to Wikipedia.org - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arab-Israeli_conflict

The conflicting forces of Arab nationalism and the Zionist movement created a situation which the British could neither resolve nor extricate themselves from. The rise to power of Adolf Hitler in Germany created a new urgency in the Zionist movement to create a Jewish state in Palestine, and the evident intentions of the Zionists provoked increasingly fierce Arab resistance and attacks against the Jewish population (most notably in the preceding 1929 Hebron massacre, the activities of the Black Hand, and during the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine). The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Amin al-Husayni, led opposition to the idea of turning part of Palestine into a Jewish state. He objected to any form of Jewish homeland on what he regarded as Arab land. In search for help in expelling British forces from Palestine, thus removing the enforcer of the Zionist enterprise, the Grand Mufti sought alliance with the Axis Powers.

The response of the British government was to banish the Mufti (where he spent much of World War II in Germany and helped form a Muslim SS division), curb Jewish immigration, and reinforce its police force. However, many of the British reinforcements were Arabs who supported and collaborated in the Great Arab Uprising. The Jewish leadership (Yishuv) "adopted a policy of restraint (havlaga) and static defense in response to Arab attacks."[5] It was at this time that critics of this policy broke away from the Hagana (the self-defense organization of the Yishuv) and created the more right-wing militant Irgun, which would later be led by Menachem Begin in 1943. For a list of Irgun attacks on the Palestinian population during this period, see List of Irgun attacks during the 1930s.

A British Royal Commission of Inquiry that came to be known as the Peel Commission was established in 1936. In its 1937 report, it proposed a two-state solution that gave the Arabs control over all of the Negev, much of the present-day West Bank, and Gaza and gave the Jews control over Tel Aviv, Haifa, present-day northern Israel, and surrounding areas. The British were to maintain control over Jaffa, Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and surrounding areas. The Jews were bitterly divided over the Peel Commission,[6] but they ultimately accepted the principle of partition.[7] The Arabs, however, rejected it while demanding "an end to Jewish immigration and land sales to Jews, calling for independence of Palestine as an independent Arab state."[4]

Violence against the British Mandate continued to mount throughout the 1940s, with attacks by the Irgun, assassination of British Mandate officials by the Lehi, and the 1946 King David Hotel bombing.

As of 1947 the population was reported as 1,845,000, consisting of 608,000 Jews and 1,237,000 Arabs and others.[8]


It was against this backdrop that the United Nations in 1947 proposed the Partition Plan which proposed the establishment of Arab and Jewish states in Palestine. The Arabs had rejected the plan while the Jews had accepted it. This is what led to what Israel refers to as its war of independence and the Arabs refer to as al-Nakba.

I again refer to Wikipedia.org - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus

In the first few months of the civil war the climate in the Mandate of Palestine became volatile. Although throughout this period both Arab and Jewish leaders tried to limit hostilities between Jews and Arabs[3]. According to historian Benny Morris, the period was marked by Arab initiatives and Jewish reprisals[4]. On the other hand, Flapan points out a pattern in which terrorist attacks by Irgun and Lehi resulted in Arab retaliations and then 'the Haganah - while always condemning the actions of Irgun and Lehi - joined in with an inflaming counterretaliation'[5]. Typically the Jewish reprisals were directed against villages and neighborhoods from which attacks against Jews had originated[6], were more damaging than the provoking attack and included killing of armed and unarmed men, destruction of houses and sometimes expulsion of inhabitants[7]. The Zionist groups of Irgun and Lehi reverted to their 1937-1939 strategy of placing bombs in crowded places such as bus stops, shopping centres and markets. Their attacks on British forces reduced British troops' ability and willingness to protect Jewish traffic[8]. General conditions deteriorated: the economic situation became unstable and unemployment grew[9]. Rumours spread that the Husaynis were planning to bring in bands of fallahin to take over the towns[10]. Some Palestinian Arab leaders send their families abroad. The Arab Liberation Army embarked on a systematic evacuation of non-combatants from several frontier villages in order to turn them into military strongholds [11]. Arab depopulation occurred most in villages close to Jewish settlements and in vulnerable neighborhoods in Haifa, Jaffa and West-Jerusalem[12]. The poor inhabitants of these neighborhoods generally fled to other parts of the city. Many rich inhabitants fled further away, most of them expecting to return when the troubles were over[13]. By the end of March 1948 thirty villages were depopulated[14] and around 100,000 Palestinian Arabs had fled to Arab parts of Palestine, such as Nazareth, Nablus and Bethlehem or had left the country altogether[15] to Transjordan or Egypt.

According to [Ilan Pappé, Professor of History, University of Exeter] the Zionists organised a campaign of threats[24], consisting of the distribution of threatening leaflets, 'violent reconnaissance' and, after the arrival of mortars, the shelling of Arab villages and neighborhoods[25]. The idea of 'violent reconnaissance' was to enter a defenceless village at night, fire at everyone who dared leave his or her house and leave after a few hours[26]. Pappé also notes that the Haganah shifted its policy from retaliation through excessive retaliation to offensive initiatives[27]. During the 'long seminar', a meeting of Ben-Gurion with his chief advisors in January 1948, the departure point was that it was desirable to 'transfer' as many Arabs as possible out of Jewish territory, and the discussion focussed mainly on the implementation[28]. The experiences in a number of attacks in February 1948, notably those on Qisarya and Sa'sa', were used in the development of a plan, detailing how enemy population centers should be handled[29]. According to Pappé plan Dalet was the master plan for the expulsion of the Palestinians[30].

By May 1, 1948, two weeks before the Israeli Declaration of Independence, nearly 175,000 Palestinians had fled.

On 9 April 1948, 254 men, women and children were butchered at Deir Yassin by Zionist forces to secure the road to Tel Aviv. Because this was one of the few such episodes that received media attention in the West, the Zionist leadership did not deny it, but sought to label it an aberration by extremists. In fact, however, the atrocity was part of a broader plan designed by the Zionist High Command, led by Ben Gurion himself, which was aimed at the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from the British mandate territory and the seizure of as much land as possible for the intended Jewish state.

There is an interesting article commemorating this event and recounting the atrocities therein at http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9445.shtml

There is obviously as much of a right for the Palestinians to remain and return to the lands which they occupied before the arrival of the emigrating Jews, despite any and all claims to the contrary, and despite any and all attempts on the part of the "Greater Israel" adherents to post their own illegal "facts on the ground" through settlements and the apartheid wall.

The reason I felt the need to recount all of this is in order to give you a wider scope of what actually occurred during this period. It was not a matter of the Palestinians simply being "offered" statehood and rejecting it as you so blithely state here. As it stands, the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 has never been revoked or rescinded, and yet it is the State of Israel which today stands in the way of its implementation, for which they have been censured on various occasions and have wilfully ignored, with strong US backing.

The claims by radical Zionists that the Palestinians should just "go back to Jordan" and other ridiculous statements to that end are so indicative of the dishonesty inherent in their "arguments" and the complete lack of any real knowledge of the issues involved. I do not doubt the cynical misinforming of those who are better informed, but believe that the vast majority of spewers of this nonsense are just ignorant of the facts.
 
Well, he made it to Ramallah, hugged a Hamas official and laid a wreath at Arafat's grave. He will not be able to visit Gaza, but should soon be on his way to Syria... All in all a good day! (No mention of a bundt cake, though...)

I'm not surprised that, as usual, Israel has demonstrated it's petulance and spitefulness by refusing to provide him with protection. What else is to be expected of these people???

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/04/15/africa/ME-GEN-Palestinians-Carter.php?page=2
 
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