Chapter 4 – I’m here, and this is who I am

[mpdan]

Chapter 1- Single man
Chapter 2- Married, with children
Chapter 3- Gay man in the shadows
Chapter 4- The following….

Today marks the second year anniversary since I tumbled out of the closet. If you want to know more, this thread http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1873676#post1873676 is a good start. I’ve thought long and hard about this – I am about to embark on the deeply personal voyage of coming out to my family. It’s my story, and I’m more than ready. Some would argue that I don’t need to do this, but long drives on the Route 80 corridor, with nothing more to do but stare at a sea of break lights have had me thinking, and planning, There are many on the JUB boards who have helped me to this place in life, and I want to thank them.

There are others who I think of often. Three in particular: There is Bergantony http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1219426#post1219426 long gone from the boards, but one of the first to make me realize that I was not alone. Then there is Urban Farmboy http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1259201#post1259201 a man who taught me (in PM’s) that you can stand up in the face of adversity and Oh God! There is someone who has it worse than you do. Finally there is “Derek” http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?p=973864#post973864 a young college kid who I often wonder if he has become true to himself yet.

CadillacJoe (my confidant, my life partner) and I have been working closely with a Philadelphia therapist (and Gay dad himself) on the best way to tell my children I’m gay. If all goes well, they will be left with positive reinforcement that they are loved children in an open accepting world. Joe and I are anxious to see this happen, and we agreed with our therapist to wait until after the sometimes stressful holidays to make this announcement. Just before Christmas we were discussing this on one of our morning phone calls when a call from my parents line came in – Unusual, I thought, for so early in the morning. We ended our call and I re-dialed my parents’ line.

My mom answered. The medics were at their condo. She didn’t have to say anything more -Dad was dead.

It was unexpected, and the next few days were a blur with photo-stops in my mind – holding dad’s lifeless body, the breakfast mom prepared still sitting on the table, standing in the conference room of a cubicle filled office telling my sister news that would have her crumple to my feet. I gave a eulogy that received an ovation, and the priest flew 3,000 miles to be there. But the hardest picture in my mind is seeing Joe’s stressed lined face. This e-mail sent to our therapist should give the reason why:

Hello Jay-
Per my voicemail message, I’m hoping to schedule a one hour telephone session with you prior to Friday, December 22nd:

As you are aware, I have tabled my “coming out” process until after the Holidays. We agreed the holidays are stressful, and my concern is not for myself but for the health and well being of my children. In my 44 years I think I have come to grips with my homosexuality and my intense homophobia, borne out of a strict religious upbringing.

My father died unexpectedly yesterday and my children were extremely close to him. It climates a year in which they experienced the death of their maternal grandmother in July, the death of a maternal great aunt who showered them with gifts (including a college fund) on Thanksgiving, and they are due to vacation with their mother in Jamaica the day after Christmas. I vividly recall the death of my own maternal grandmother on December 21st 1974, and have unforgettable memories of a long anticipated Christmas celebration that was suddenly marred by sadness. My goal is to minimize the impact my Dad’s death will have on my kids, and to celebrate both his life and the Christmas Eve tradition of a large family party still to be held at my parent’s condo.

Over the last two years of my coming out process, first starting with my own acceptance, and now my impending announcement (confirmation?) to my family, I have always thought of my children’s feelings first. I have ended friendships with some gays who differed with my opinion – guys who felt the moment that I became true to myself, I should have immediately come true to my children with as much trumpeting and fanfare as possible. I have always felt that right or wrong, I will come out to my children when I am ready, and when I feel it is best that they can handle a major announcement that will affect their young lives – on how they view and understand human sexuality and society as a whole. If I confirm to one person that I am gay, I run the risk of them hearing it through the grapevine.

With this in mind, I need to discuss the following with you:

• My dad is dead. I long ago made my peace with him, and after my mom I was the first to bid him farewell. A day before his death he told my mom that he was happy I was doing so well, and that I have made a close friendship (with Joe) Still, I’m sad – I’m happy he died peacefully the way he wanted, but I already miss him.
• A funeral will be held on Friday and hundreds will be in attendance – a large extended family, friends of mine from my “straight” life, and former business acquaintances. Virtually every friend and family member I have, including Joe & Richard will be there. And yet I am choosing NOT to take this opportunity to confirm my relationship with Joe because I do not want to add drama at a gathering that should be not about me, but about my children’s grandfather. Confirmation to my children that I am gay, on the day before Christmas, and two days before they leave the country on vacation, is not the way I wish to handle this.
• This creates a dilemma. I love Joe, but I will need to keep him at arms length, and introduce him as “just a friend”. This is completely unfair to him, and like King Solomon I feel I must choose between hurting my children’s feelings and / or hurting Joe’s. In turn, I’m absolutely sick to my stomach.
• Furthermore, a lie has steamrolled: When I took a job last summer at the gay campground where Joe and I met I initially told my family that I found work at a campground. Then family members suggested that it would be marvelous to allow my children to visit me, and since this was not possible, I informed them that is was a camp for disabled (emotionally and/or physically) adults and children – therefore my children would not be allowed.

The story of my summer job at a camp has worked its way through the extended family. Many times people will start an “icebreaker” conversation and quiz me on my experiences. I simply confirm that I worked at a camp and do my best to change the subject, allowing them to think what they want. However Joe will now meet these people at the funeral, and he is now an integral part of an elaborate lie, all started to protect my kids. This is so unfair to Joe.

• Finally, and most important, I need advice on how I can ensure (and guarantee) that my children will grow up happy and well adjusted, and not point their fingers at me for any injustices that happen in their future adult lives. If you can do this, I will gladly double your session fee.

Regards,
Dan

A long post I know, we sent dad off in the traditional Irish way by celebrating his gifts to us of wit and blarney. Joe was well received at the repast by family members as “just my friend”. Christmas Eve was wonderful, and I’m waiting for a phone call to confirm my kids and their mom have arrived safely in Newark Airport. Sometime this week I will talk to their mom about Joe, and we will set up a gameplan on how best to tell the children.

The purpose of this post is to discuss the conflicts of leading a double life; of sorrow I caused to myself and others. The coming out process is something that must be done entirely on one’s own timeframe. I was mentally and physically prepared to come out to my family by November, but Aunt Dot died so we decided to wait till after Christmas. Then Dad died, but I know he knew without any words spoken. I’d like to think he would have supported me…..of best laid plans of mice and men.

 

[hermanding]

things DO happen that complicate plans. you will still have the chance to declare yourself to your children and other family members. of course it's difficult. we all want the approval of those we love, don't we? stay with us and let us know what happens. as you have already noted, the entangled webs of trying to keep all the balls in the air and the mirrors showing something other than the truth just keep getting harder and harder to support. may you find your deserved happiness. we're all here for you
ding

 

[Eagle653]

Dan, I'm very sorry to hear about your father's death. Losing a parent is always difficult, and being around the holidays seems doubly so.

As for coming out--everything in its own time. Visit with your therapist about it. I admire you being sensitive to the emotional state of those around you, instead of being self-centered or something and sticking to "me" plans come hell or high water. There's time for this, when everyone has calmed down about your father and can re-focus on other things. Until then, just keep cool and go about your business. You'll know when the time is right.

Good luck. Keep in touch with us and let us know how you're doing. My sympathies, again, about your father.

 

[Riverrick]

I'm really sorry to hear of your father's death. I agree with the way you handled things at the funeral, deciding to wait until a more appropriate and less emotional time to tell your kids about you and Joe.

How about just following your nose for right now? If Joe can hang in there a while longer then the two of you may find the right circumstances to come out to your children and family. See what each day brings for the next few weeks and assess how your kids are doing with the loss of their grandfather.

Eventually you will come out. I know its hard to wait, but rest assured that it will happen. Until then you have each other.

 

[mpdan]

I suppose the best way I can describe my feelings right now is "emotional train wreck". I have just set the stage, and there is no going back. I called my ex-wife at work and explained that I needed to talk with her privately, sans children. This is extremely unusual for us, since we have always been able to resolve anything without the kids present over the phone. Since I am making considerably less money than I did on the day of our divorce, and she has recently received what I imagine to be a sizeable inheritance (her widowed mom died in July) I assured her that the topic will not be about money or about changing the divorce decree in any way. Naturally she is curious, but we agreed to meet tomorrow night at a local college.

Thanks for your input guys. But it's time. It's time to put the lies to bed and recognize who I am. I can wait till after my son's belated birthday celebration, or after a proper mourning period for my dad, or after the spring solstice. or I can do it now....and get this goddamn knot out of my stomach.

 

[hermanding]

the knot is a great way to describe it. a load will lift off you, and there may be those who disapprove. but you will be free of this balancing act. you can begin to be you finally. stay with us and lean on us
ding

 

[mpdan]

Urban- Your personal e-mail to me was an inspiration – thank-you. And Joe, This was an extremely hard day for me, one of the most stressful in my life. I honestly don’t want to hurt people. Especially ones I love.

It’s strange how my mind works. I was really nervous, thinking how my ex-wife would take the news. I somewhat expected something like “I knew it all along” or “I told you so” or at worst “you waited for your father to die” I was nervous, replaying scenarios in my head, then sometime around noon I just happened to think of the riding peg.

Somewhere in my belongings I have a riding peg from a motorcycle I drove for many years. My ex-wife demanded I sell the bike on the day my daughter was born – Because the ER medics in New Jersey refer to motorcyclists as “organ donors”. Anyway, there was a time where a young woman drove her car into my lane – and in a split second I found myself wedged (at 70 MPH) just inches from a concrete jersey barrier separating the east-west lanes of the highway, and the woman’s front fender. Hitting either meant instant crash, the riding peg scraped the concrete and broke, and my knee was grazed. She slammed on her brake, and I was free. I pulled over and stopped, my knee was OK, but I remember being told that the knee is incredibly painful when it breaks, and I couldn’t believe I got out of that mess. (This being NJ, naturally the woman drove off)

…..And I said to myself, “whatever happens tonight, it won’t be as bad as breaking a kneecap”. And with that I felt better. We met at a track meet. We walked outside and I told her that I’ve been in therapy for many years, that I was going to move to Philadelphia this past September, but that the job I recently got in Jersey changed that. I said dad’s dying had nothing to do with this - that I had planned to make this announcement after the holidays. I said I met someone, and we’re spending alternate weekends between the apartment in Jersey and his condo in Philly. She was startled, her eyes opened wide. “I’m Gay”, I said. She regrouped quickly. Then she said all the right things: “That must have been tough” “Well you have to do this, after all you can’t live forever within a lie” “Did you tell the kids?” “Oh God! What did your crazy sister say?” She was affirming, understanding, and most of all she was supportive.

“The floodgates are open” I said, you’re the first to know. And with that we discussed ways to tell the kids, and how she expects they will react. The kids are well aware of alternate lifestyles, the first three years after the divorce I was a live-in handyman for a lesbian couple, and the kids stayed over frequently. “I’ll be there if you want” – But I declined, and if all goes well I’ll tell them tomorrow night. She felt 14 and 15 is an OK age to be told, that if I waited any longer the kids may resent not having known. She asked about Joe, where he works, and I said he wants her recipe for cinnamon buns.

“There’s more”, I said. “that camp I worked at this past summer – I met Joe there – it’s a gay campground” She smiled, and suggested I hold off telling the kids that just yet. She was intrigued by the camp and peppered me with questions. “I worked hard” I said “it’s just like the campgrounds we went to on vacations, we had a pool and volleyball, bingo and pot luck dinners. Joe hosted an antique car show one weekend. The only real difference is that there were only guys, and every Friday and Saturday night I’d help build a bonfire and like moths to a flame the guys would come to hang out, drink beer, then sleep in each others tents.” Again she smiled like I haven’t seen her do in years, and she took my arm, said she was cold, and we walked back to the gym.

We watched the track meet, and we talked about old friends, relatives, and friends of our kids. We talked more tonight than we have in at least six years, about nothing relevant. I was relaxed, I guess because I had nothing to hide. My daughters’ relay race was forfeited because the team captain failed to hand in a card. We consoled her, watched a few more races together, and before I left she wished me good luck.

 

[mpdan]

Wow. It’s over.

It was a normal night. I picked my daughter up from track practice at the high school – I was early and I walked the school grounds in the unusual warm weather. She was her bubbly self; I could hardly get a word in. “Do you have homework?” No, “Good, I checked with your bro and he has his homework finished so we’ll visit Grandma tonight and get something to eat on the way down.” So the stage was set. My ex-wife asked that I bring the kids home at 9pm, when she returns from her evening graduate class, just in case the kids want to talk without me around. Therefore dinner at 6, then to Grandma’s for an hour or so to fill in some time, then around 8 pm head down the street to my place to show them the progress on the new apartment, but really just a rouse for a “serious discussion”

Dinner conversation was light and animated. I was repeating to myself “this will be easier than breaking a kneecap” for more than 24 hours now, and I found myself telling them the story of the riding peg. This led my daughter to announce that she wants to get a motorcycle license, since both her parents used to ride and it’s therefore in her blood. I talked about their mom and my riding days, of Sturgis, and the time her mom got a flat on a back country road outside of Sweetwater Texas, that on a dusty front porch she had to use hand signals because she couldn’t understand an elderly woman’s Texan twang, and the woman couldn’t understand their mom’s Jersey accent.

We visited my own mother, she’s adjusting to widowhood – I’ll be having lunch with her tomorrow. When we got to the apartment I got a glass of water and my daughter launched into another high speed talk marathon. Her mom has been buying new furniture, and I took my daughters cast-off white wicker bedroom set and spray painted it a more manly dark brown. She loved it - tested each drawer and I had to ask three times to please sit down on the couch.

“This is a serious conversation” I said. “You know your mom and I love you. And I really can't pinpoint exactly why we got a divorce – but marriage is a really hard process that you have to work at, and somewhere along the way we fell out of love. And a marriage without love just doesn’t work. You know that after the divorce I dated “Mary*”, and I even considered marrying her – but her dad was a wealthy surgeon and she was used to living a lifestyle I couldn’t afford, and I decided to call it quits.” At this point my daughter chirped in and said she thinks she knows where this is going – and I continued. “I want you both to know that I am dating someone who is very important to me, and that you guys are too smart to for me not to be honest with you, for I would hate to have you come to the realization somewhere down the road. His name is Joe – the guy who helped us paint the kitchen. He has a place outside of Philly and we’ll be alternating living here in this apartment and at his condo. Look, I’m not into labels – so you can call this situation anything you want. I met Joe at the campground last May, and he’s a great guy. ....I never really hugged and kissed “Mary*” out in public – or in front of you, and I won’t be doing this with Joe. So if we show up at a sporting event we’ll just be two guys and you can say whatever you want to your friends.”

And with that my daughter smirked and said “yup, I guessed it” – and my son motioned “yea, sure fine” like it was no big deal. All told the conversation took but a few minutes – and my life changed forever. We talked about seeing the sights in Philly, and on the drive back to their mom’s we discussed everything from the Canadian view of America, to the teacher at school who played a game of “simon says” before the big test and when she said “simon says hold up your hands” – failed the student who had the answers written on the palm of his hands. It was a normal night.

And that’s all they need to know for now. If they ask (or even if they don’t) I’ll expand and explain that I am, in fact, Gay. I’ll have to explain how Richard fits into our equation, and when we visit Philly I’ll have to address that six foot framed drawing of three naked guys that hangs in the study. But all in due time – Next is my mom – who in her moment of gravest grief, walking behind dads casket, reached over and covered Joe’s hand – then my four siblings, bit players in the story of my life. Right now, I’m free. And with my first official act as a free Gay man I will share with you my picture – taken last summer at the campground:

 

[Soilwork]

OK, wait.

so you told them that you're dating a guy but that you're not "Gay."

Oh well.. you know.. 99% of the way there is 99% of the way there, so good on ya.

And I say it all the time... It's NEVER the big deal to them than it is to us.

 

[mpdan]

No Soilwork-

When I listen to them banter back and forth in the back of the van and talk about kids at school, the word 'Gay' is used somewhat loosely - more to describe a situation other than an orientation ("She stuck purple flowers in her sneakers - how Gay is that?")

Yesterday I told them their dad has found happiness - with a partner named Joe. That's enough of a reality dose for now. I know with certainty that I am neither bisexual nor straight - but I also don't stick purple flowers in my workboots. So I've decided to hold off standing on my soap box and extolling the definition of the word GAY until a later day.

Think of it like when the guys on this board call you a queen - yet we all know there is nothing for the tiara to hold onto, and it just slips off.....

 

[Riverrick]

Wow, that is such a great series of posts by you Dan. You write so much better than the rest of us, you know.

I think you handled both situations so well and I am so happy for you that both had good outcomes. What a great family you have - great kids and an understanding ex.

I think that I would gladly go through that stress to have such wonderful kids like this of my own.

I don't know what else to say but Congratulations! You seem to have written the book on coming out.

 

[Soilwork]

No Soilwork-

When I listen to them banter back and forth in the back of the van and talk about kids at school, the word 'Gay' is used somewhat loosely - more to describe a situation other than an orientation ("She stuck purple flowers in her sneakers - how Gay is that?")

Yesterday I told them their dad has found happiness - with a partner named Joe. That's enough of a reality dose for now. I know with certainty that I am neither bisexual nor straight - but I also don't stick purple flowers in my workboots. So I've decided to hold off standing on my soap box and extolling the definition of the word GAY until a later day.

OK... well... as long as it works and everyone's happy.

People DO get kinda hung up on words, but allowing kids to turn "gay" into a dirty word is pretty much why we have all these lame-os out there calling themselves "g0y" because they don't wanna be "gay' even if they are. Or people who go on and on about "labels". Gay isn't a label, but I've also been out for 20 years and am quite comfortable with the word.

But I'm already up on the soap box, and I guess that's just me.

Personally, I think that coming 99% of the way and then lying to them about how you dont' like to use "labels" even though "gay" isn't a label and you DO call youself that (and the camp ground you where you met Joe) feels to me almost like you're giving yourself a way out if they don't like it.

BUT.. I do think this is a GREAT step for you and I think that it's great that everyone else in your life has handled it so well.

Good for you. And good for them.

 

[mpdan]

Interesting points Soilwork, but I’ve got a lot on my plate right now so I’m going to put your thoughts to the side with a promise to address them later….And Thanks Urban, but I can imagine CadillacJoe is doing one of these ….right now. The truth is this is only part of a long and complicated story. My ex spoke of my “crazy sister”; which is an understated reference to just the tip of the iceberg. I made a decision to concentrate only on one issue – of becoming true to my children (which, I realize is still in process). So I placed blinders on and plowed forward through an ungodly tangled mess of family theatrics and drama, making split second decisions as to who I should hurt the least in my wake. I lost my cool, and in turn hurt the one I love the most. So now if anyone has a shovel and broom I can borrow, - some glue and scotch tape, I have a lot of cleaning up to do…and it’s only gonna get worse when big sis finds out I’m queer.
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[Soilwork]

meh.

it's 7:30 here.

I may think totally different at 9AM once I've had some breakfast.

 

[Eagle653]

Mpdan, I've been following your story and just wanted to tell you how much I admire what you've done and how delighted I am that it's turned out so well. You are an inspiration to all of us. Thanks for being here and sharing this difficult and nerve-racking episode in your life. All the best to you and to CadillacJoe!

 

[mpdan]

I called mom at 10am to tell her she would have a lunch guest. “Your brother's here” she said. Apparently he had a doctors appointment and took the day off. I hung up, realized this was a perfect opportunity, jumped in the van and directed it toward her condo. This is the “good” brother. The brother who will drop everything to help you, and he has. But I was nervous, more than last night. I prepared to tell mom at lunch, and now suddenly I was going to do it –right now!

My brother was sitting with mom at the dining room table. With my mom you have to patiently wait as she describes the entire contents of the refrigerator, and at each breath I say no, thanks, I just had breakfast…..In the end she’ll wear you down, placed a bowl of freshly baked chocolate chip cookies next to me, and I chowed down. My brother was describing what his doctors views were regarding cause of my dads’ death. This leads to one of the “other” issues I alluded to. I was the first on the scene after my dad died, and I relayed to the medics my mom and dad’s wishes per his living will that he not be autopsied and if at all possible released directly to the funeral parlor. I emphatically asked that the medical examiner take whatever measures necessary so that my dads’ wishes were carried out. It was obvious to the police and medics that while his death was unexpected, there was no foul play involved, and his wishes were granted. But now when the dust has settled, (or as dad settles into the dust) some of my siblings want to know exactly how he died, so they can take precautions for themselves, and my actions are being questioned. My brother, (the good brother) had some answers that hopefully will help put this issue to rest.

“I need to have a serious discussion” (hey that worked yesterday!) But with that the tears flowed and the mouth quivered. I simply did not have the composure I had last night. I felt embarrassed. I recoiled, and tried again. “I’m in a relationship, (“congratulations! How wonderful”) We’re splitting our time between Nutley and Philadelphia. His name is Joe ---“. They sat intently, more concerned about my emotional state, I think. My mom spoke first, “I knew already Dan, your father and I talked, but dad said that it was nonsense, all you needed was a friend. I can’t say I understand, because I don’t think that way, but if your happy than I am more than happy for you.” My brother seconded her comments, adding that Joe is a genuinely nice guy.

And with that we sputtered into conversation. I told them the truth about the campground, how I met Joe. That my brother can handle telling his wife and kids any way he wants. Mom asked if it’s possible to change back, and I said I suppose for others anything is possible, but as far as I am concerned I’m Gay, and there is no changing that. Mom said she knew Joe was Gay, but that my oldest sister doubted it, until they replied to a sympathy card from “Joe & Richard”. With that came the perfect opportunity to explain Richard. How Richard and Joe have been together 27 years, they own a house together, Richard is a retired school teacher 18 years older than Joe, and several years ago they agreed to no longer be sexual, but to continue on as a family. “It’s not much different than most marriages over 60” she said. No, but now I’m a new member of it. We discussed telling my one sister, whose children my kids idolize, and I said I would take care of this before the end of the day. Then the subject of my two eldest siblings arose, and I was as honest as I could be. “I have to keep them at arms length” I said, for reasons too numerous to explain here. Least is right now they are not worth the salt of my tears. My brother volunteered to tell them, and I said fine, since I really didn’t have a plan along this route anyway.

And the subject turned to other pressing issues, changing mom’s will, electing an executor, changes to dads’ pension plans. They were together 61 years, and she’s never been alone her whole life. All told we talked for two hours. Before I left mom hugged me, gave an extra hug for Joe, and in typical mom style asked if she should buy us a wedding present.

 

[mpdan]

This is the e-mail I just sent to my sister. It sounds a little impersonal when you change the names to the generic “bro”, “sis” & “kids”; but you get the idea:

Sis,

This is an important e-mail for me. I wish I could speak to you face to face, or at least on the phone, but I am running against several constraints. The first is the race against the beating drums of AOL instant messaging, which we both have no idea how it works, but what we do know is the kids have information to share at the dinner table within seconds of it happening……The second is that I’m a bit emotional right now. I don’t know why, and I handled telling my ex-wife and the kids this news with ease, but right now I’m afraid if I called you would assume the worst.

I’m Gay Sis. I’ve been in therapy regarding this subject for two years and it’s time to stop hiding and at least acknowledge who I am. My ex-wife and the kids have been told, as well as Mom and Bro. Bro is taking care of talking to our oldest brother and sister. So far everyone, especially (surprisingly?) my ex-wife has been affirming and completely supportive. Our family has come a long way.

His name is Joe S…, and you met him at the wake. We’ll be spending time between the apartment in Nutley and Joe’s place in Philadelphia. It’s important to me that you know I never cheated on my ex-wife during our marriage – that I only came true to myself two years ago. My purpose is to recognize Joe, however we will not be outwardly flamboyant about our relationship, and I’m still the brother you had last week. How you want to tell your husband and the kids is fine with me, frankly we never discussed my sex life before, and it should continue to be viewed as the boring subject it always has been. While we’re on the topic of full disclosure I did work at a campground this summer, but when our sister pressed for me to take the kids, I fibbed on the reason why they could not visit me. While any comments I made about the camp since is true, it was really a Gay campground, and that is the reason the kids could not visit. By the way, my ex-wife has asked that I hold off talking with the kids about the campground for now.

Mom is fine, she doesn’t understand only because she doesn’t know any Gay people. But she is nevertheless totally supportive. I asked her to check with dad’s cousin Katy* for advice, but even though her son Jimmy introduced me to his partner both at dad’s wake and at Uncle Joe’s wake two years ago – mom wasn’t aware he was Gay.

So that’s the story. I’m heading out to Philly for a doctors appointment tomorrow. I really don’t think I shocked you, but we know my kids really look up to your two children, and you need to know they may be leaning on them for support.

Love,
Dan

And so it goes….It’s been one hell of a week, but it’s over. I’ll be heading out soon CadillacJoe, and if traffic on the Turnpike is OK I should be home within two hours, Leave the light on.

 

[Riverrick]

I'm going to ask this question just to clarify what I am reading. So Joe and Richard are together still and now you and Joe are together, right? Is this a threesome or is Richard just an ex at this point, a friend only?

No matter the arrangement, I really have no judgement here. I'm just wondering how its going to fly with the family.

 

[mexamor]

Wow, thank you for your inspirational story. I hope some day that I can find a place where I am able to be happy and feel good about what I am doing. Like you I have never cheated on my wife and I don't plan on doing it ever, but I have to admit that I do get lonely sometimes. Your words were a comfort to me.

 

[mpdan]

Mexamore -Just a quick comment about the quirkiness of the JUB boards: When I arrived home last night Richard was reading this thread for the first time. His only comment was, “Why does this gentleman feel he is a slut? I think it admirable that he has been faithful to his wife….”

I’d like to add that Urban Farmboy could relay his recent heartache of divorce, division of assets, and a lifetime of hard earned money tossed to the wind. In Joe and Richards’s case, they are ex-lovers, but not ex-friends. So they get to keep the house, continue to have memorable cocktail parties, and we all get to rank the cutest sales clerks at the Home Depot for him. - No fighting over the china, the cats, who gets the dining table purchased the first year they met, or *cough* who keeps that six foot drawing of 3 naked guys hanging in the study.

Surprisingly, the non-support (sometimes blatantly vocal!) from some of our close gay friends is yet another of the “other issues” that I have been alluding to – and needs to be addressed and resolved.