Charlie Kirk assasinated

[NotHardUp1]

I haven't had a chance to hunt down a video clip of the Maria Ressa interview. It's pretty chilling. She warned us and we didn't listen.

I saw it when I posted that.

Here it is.

 

[rareboy]

Of course he made no secret oof his racism. So yeah...to all the MAGAts...he's their hero.

 

[Peloso]

Like it or not, October 14 is now Charlie Kirk Day in the United States of America.

 

[KaraBulut]

Like it or not, October 14 is now Charlie Kirk Day in the United States of America.

So, dare I ask how we're supposed to celebrate each year?

 

[rareboy]

Like it or not, October 14 is now Charlie Kirk Day in the United States of America.

It might be this year, but by the time the date comes around...Americans will be bored and have moved on.
At the end of the day, he jusr wasn't that important or interesting and unless everyone gets a day off work, he will be unremembered.

 

[rareboy]

I could post this in the Dems thread...but here is just as good. This is the answer to whether Dems will seize the moment. Shameful. Disgusting.

 

[rareboy]

And from another thread about threats to Trans people...

https://bsky.app/profile/kenklippenstein.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3lz5idm7g6s2f

 

[KaraBulut]

I could post this in the Dems thread...but here is just as good. This is the answer to whether Dems will seize the moment. Shameful. Disgusting.

Meanwhile, we're a week closer to a government shutdown.

 

[rareboy]

No surprises here. It was their family business and piggy bank.

 

[rareboy]

and...

 

[Alistair]

I have a 21 year old extremely closeted friend that I spend a lot time with. I can’t believe the brainwashing that Kirk has done to the youth of America. You can’t believe some of the things my friend believes to be true. He’s actually worse of than I was at his age. It’s very difficult to even make my buddy feel like he’s normal and ok with all the shit that he’s been fed. There’s a reason why depression rates are through the roof with young men. And fuckers like Kirk are responsible for it, just out to make a buck and who cares who they hurt to get it.

 

[NotHardUp1]

So, dare I ask how we're supposed to celebrate each year?

Fireworks, dress up in white robes and conical hats, burn crosses, other Christian stuff.

 

[Peloso]

So, dare I ask how we're supposed to celebrate each year?

I refuse to answer on the ground that my talk show might get cancelled.

It might be this year, but by the time the date comes around...Americans will be bored and have moved on.
At the end of the day, he jusr wasn't that important or interesting and unless everyone gets a day off work, he will be unremembered.

I would prefer to remember him as the guy who earned his living arguing with children.

 

[KaraBulut]

I have a 21 year old extremely closeted friend that I spend a lot time with. I can’t believe the brainwashing that Kirk has done to the youth of America. You can’t believe some of the things my friend believes to be true. He’s actually worse of than I was at his age. It’s very difficult to even make my buddy feel like he’s normal and ok with all the shit that he’s been fed. There’s a reason why depression rates are through the roof with young men. And fuckers like Kirk are responsible for it, just out to make a buck and who cares who they hurt to get it.

I'm going to echo what you have said here. I get into discussions with regulars at the gym and I'm shocked how many of them watch these podcasts and have been indoctrinated into the "angry white guy" way of thinking.

And get this- several of these "angry white guys" are gay or have OnlyFans accounts where they regularly do shows and PPVs for gay guys.

There are several of us who are trying to "deprogram" them but it is very difficult. They are very nihilistic. They don't have any hopes of getting into stable relationships, many of them don't have stable careers or motivation to get an education, they are financially struggling to live in a very expensive real estate market and they spend a lot of their day alone at the gym or playing online games. Any money they do get goes into Bitcoin or other sketchy investments.

They spend most of their day alone. Part of our deprogramming is just hanging out with them getting a protein shake and getting them resocialized.

We're also trying to work with them to get them to stop doing dangerous stuff in their quest to mimic what they're seeing on social media. They're on steroids, do ice water baths and they are doing crazy stuff like self-injecting insulin in order to lose body fat.

Sociologists are starting to look at this phenomenon. Congress needs to wake up because we're seeing the fallout of what is happening with these socially isolated men.

The Anti-Social Century

Americans are now spending more time alone than ever. It’s changing our personalities, our politics, and even our relationship to reality.

www.theatlantic.com

The Anti-Social Century

In 2020, the philosopher and writer Andrew Taggart observed in an essay published in the religious journal First Things that a new flavor of masculinity seemed to be emerging: strong, obsessed with personal optimization, and proudly alone. Men and women alike have been delaying family formation; the median age at first marriage for men recently surpassed 30 for the first time in history. Taggart wrote that the men he knew seemed to be forgoing marriage and fatherhood with gusto. Instead of focusing their 30s and 40s on wedding bands and diapers, they were committed to working on their body, their bank account, and their meditation-sharpened minds. Taggart called these men “secular monks” for their combination of old-fashioned austerity and modern solipsism. “Practitioners submit themselves to ever more rigorous, monitored forms of ascetic self-control,” he wrote, “among them, cold showers, intermittent fasting, data-driven health optimization, and meditation boot camps.”

 

[Alistair]

Exactly. And it’s not even just the angry white guy. He tells me I need to look at other sources of news. He’s getting all his information from people like Kirk. I give him the truth that I get from multiple sources. He tells me that 9-11 was a hoax, I give him the correct information.

He’s from a rich family (big pharma) so it’s a job getting through what his family tells him. I’ve shown him how the lower 50% percent live and work. So his opinions have definitely changed. We just need to do everything we can to deprogram them as you said.

 

[KaraBulut]

Exactly. And it’s not even just the angry white guy. He tells me I need to look at other sources of news. He’s getting all his information from people like Kirk. I give him the truth that I get from multiple sources. He tells me that 9-11 was a hoax, I give him the correct information.

He’s from a rich family (big pharma) so it’s a job getting through what his family tells him. I’ve shown him how the lower 50% percent live and work. So his opinions have definitely changed. We just need to do everything we can to deprogram them as you said.

We've been using some of Diane Benscoter's recommendations to not try to re-indocrinate them. Mostly we listen and then point out places where there's inconsistencies, usually in the form of a question.

For example, when they say things like, "Trump is going to help us", we ask, "Trump's past shows that he takes money from ordinary people and he has a long history of not paying workers who worked on his buildings. Why do you think he's interested in helping you?". When they say, "The stock market did so great when he was President last time!", we ask, "Do you own stocks? No? Who do you think got rich from owning stocks? It wasn't you or your family?".

When we make them reason these things out, you can see the confusion in their faces. Another thing that Diane Benscoter always says is that people in cults are happy because they don't have to think for themselves. They're being told what to think by a cult leader. It's when they start thinking for themselves again that things begin to fall apart.

Another thing that we've noticed is that they don't see how they fit into the big picture. Everything that is wrong in their life is someone else's fault. It's very passive, "victim" thinking. Getting them into the mindframe of personal responsibility and understanding that most of what they're unhappy about are things that they have done to themselves and only they have the ability to get themselves back on track. Apparently, no one ever told them this?

 

[NotHardUp1]

We've been using some of Diane Benscoter's recommendations to not try to re-indocrinate them. Mostly we listen and then point out places where there's inconsistencies, usually in the form of a question.

For example, when they say things like, "Trump is going to help us", we ask, "Trump's past shows that he takes money from ordinary people and he has a long history of not paying workers who worked on his buildings. Why do you think he's interested in helping you?". When they say, "The stock market did so great when he was President last time!", we ask, "Do you own stocks? No? Who do you think got rich from owning stocks? It wasn't you or your family?".

When we make them reason these things out, you can see the confusion in their faces. Another thing that Diane Benscoter always says is that people in cults are happy because they don't have to think for themselves. They're being told what to think by a cult leader. It's when they start thinking for themselves again that things begin to fall apart.

Another thing that we've noticed is that they don't see how they fit into the big picture. Everything that is wrong in their life is someone else's fault. It's very passive, "victim" thinking. Getting them into the mindframe of personal responsibility and understanding that most of what they're unhappy about are things that they have done to themselves and only they have the ability to get themselves back on track. Apparently, no one ever told them this?

1,000 times yes.

The rot is in the hyper-selfish nature of the internet and the male ego. "No one can tell me what to do" has been the Easy Button for the GOP, and their coalition is a basketful of "I don't want to see gays everywhere like they're 'normal' ", "you can't take my fully automatic weapons from me, even if I don't own them yet", "you're trying to extinguish Christians with (insert other -- Jews, Muslims, Pedophiles in Hollywood) -- nevermind that I don't attend or support a church 'cuz reasons", "my kids don't need your tainted vaccines", and on and on.

All the GOP needs do is push one button for their various crazies, and they are willing to look away from all the facts of the damage their vote does. It's a bundle of sticks, ironically the true symbol of fascism.

Unfortunately, the Democrats have had too few Easy Buttons, and of late, Social Justice, which has been a disastrous failure. It's not because Social Justice isn't a worthy part of a platform, only that it makes a shitty centerpiece and a too-easy target for attack, It is literally the edge of the values that can succeed in the center of the electorate, the fringe.

The Democrats should be addressing the BROAD anger at rents and mortgages, the obvious worsening of the climate, the widening gap between development of new technology in the US because we squander all our money on military manufacturing, and the horrendous support by both Biden and Trump of Israel. They also need to promise to pass an immigration act that is part of a minimum wage reform. Farmers and hoteliers and meat plant owners need labor, and we need to stop the class snobbery that furthers the ban on allowing menial laborers from being full citizens. It's idiotic and evil at the same time.

What's so hard about saying that the people who do the dirtiest jobs should be recognized with decent wages and full citizenship? Another year of employers struggling as ICE rounds up workers but are not replaced by citizens should help.

Congress also needs to pass a law about unequal law enforcement by the federal government along partisan lines. This targeting of political enemies needs to be explicity outlawed and punishable by prison.

 

[NotHardUp1]

I would prefer to remember him as the guy who earned his living arguing with children.

So, Kirk was the Art Linkletter-come-lately?

 

[KaraBulut]

...The Democrats should be addressing the BROAD anger at rents and mortgages, the obvious worsening of the climate, the widening gap between development of new technology in the US because we squander all our money on military manufacturing, and the horrendous support by both Biden and Trump of Israel.

A lot of what you listed are things that young guys are angry about. I would add two more:

• The cost of education - The amount of debt that students are taking on is out of control. A lot of these guys would like to get associate degrees or learn a trade but the cost is a barrier. Some very smart public high schools are partnering with community colleges to incorporate technical classes into junior and senior grade-level classes, so that students graduate from high school with college credits, and in some cases, an associate degree.
• The impacts of technology on the job market - a surprising number of these guys are in jobs that are at risk for automation. Republicans have been blaming immigration and offshoring for the decline in jobs that don't require a degree. In fact, automation is a major factor in the loss of jobs for guys coming out of high school. The same thing is going to happen for guys who were making their living working for Uber or Lyft. Even Amazon is increasingly using robots for fulfillment, leaving humans to do the low wage work like packing and delivering the orders.

The podcasters are preying upon these guys who have poor social skills and are coming out of high school with no job prospects and a high cost of living. And you're correct: one of the tactics guys like Charlie Kirk are using is to convince these guys that their unhappy lot is because of... (insert a list of reasons to blame someone/something else). Democrats have lost their focus on finding solutions that appeal to young people who have a lot of economic insecurity and who have a very pessimistic view of their future prospects.

 

[NotHardUp1]

In my observation, very few people want to be educated. They want a certificate that leads to higher paid, less laborious careers. Most people don't give a rat's ass about understanding the Chinese people, how a television works, why nihilism exists and what it is, or if a vaccine is a threat or a help.

With the proliferation of information has come an even greater apathy. I suspect it follows the same law of the universe that causes us to buy chocolate cookies, but then crave every other kind of treat simply because we already have chocolate cookies in the pantry. When few people could read, learning was the opening up not only of social mobility, but of enlightenment. Once it became as the water from the tap, it lost its appeal. Just a theory, mind you.