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Christianity and Sexuality - "Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin" ???

RobinGoodfellow said:
HOWEVER, Daddy did have the option of asking for financial compensation instead if he so desired. And Heaven help you if she was already married.


RG
Click to expand...

I haven't put much effort into re-finding the verse but I'm glad you confirmed the second aspect of it that I felt hesitant reciting, it is in fact possible to bypass marriage if you pay her father. I thought so.

What a wonderful book!
 
paintact said:
Ok...here is where I take an issue with some of this reasoning - this idea that people equate non-heterosexuality with sin when there is enough scientific research and intellectual analysis to at least show that there is something to this that is NOT a choice.
Click to expand...
Welcome to Fallacial Thinking 101. The Ancient Jew didn't exactly have access to the scientific research we have today. All he knew is that his tribe (or tribes as the case may be) required a lot of kids in order to make up for those lost to disease and war, among things. The only way of doing this was to have sex, due to the lack of cloning machines in the area. Non-procreational sex did not create babies, especially if it were non-procreational sex between two guys (who didn't usually need to worry procreational sex as it was sort of not happening). Ergo, these were listed as sins, usually with a steep price, so as to seriously encourage the procreational kind of sex.

Not defending, just explaining...

RG
 
Karen_Walker said:
I haven't put much effort into re-finding the verse but I'm glad you confirmed the second aspect of it that I felt hesitant reciting, it is in fact possible to bypass marriage if you pay her father. I thought so.

What a wonderful book!
Click to expand...

I think so, at least. It sort of helps that I'm reading a book about sex in The Bible for review purposes. Sex was a very...interesting subject for the authors.

RG
 
RobinGoodfellow said:
I think so, at least. It sort of helps that I'm reading a book about sex in The Bible for review purposes. Sex was a very...interesting subject for the authors.

RG
Click to expand...

We're half-right. You're supposed to pay the father 50 pieces of silver but you still have to marry her. I guess the $50 is for the father's troubles?
 
So what happened to Deuteronomy 4:2

"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

when the modern bible was torn and cleaved from all of the written scripture into something more of a compromise to the leadership of the time to settle debate and arguement?

There were too many contradictions (even before what we now see) and so some of it 'had to go' - why then would such a thing be necessary? Because no matter how many claim that the bible is divine command, it is written by man and man is imperfect. I do not claim to know the mind of God, nor should anyone else who is even partially sane - to live by the common sense of treating others as we would wish to be treated, and leaving the world a better place for our being here and doing the best that we can is all that we can do so that, for those who believe it will come, when we stand before our judgment in the afterlife we may do so with open heart and mind.

I do believe in God, and I do believe that he is the kind and merciful creator/father that is spoken of so often - I also believe in His wrath that is spoken of in the bible, towards those who blatantly turn against Him, but most of all, I believe that if we are able to stand before Him in the end and honestly say we did our best to leave the world brighter, happier, and with more love than when we entered it, that our mortal imperfections will be forgiven.

So now that I've had my little rant, to answer the OP, I'm not so tired of being 'tolerated' as I am of the insanity of the mortal claiming to know the will of the divine by words written by mortals who claimed to know the will of the divine - words copied down after telling and retelling of stories in the verbal tradition of the time (because it's not like there were people carrying around pen and paper at every step and popping into the corner store when they needed more papyrus, reeds, and ink...) and like the game some teachers play in elementary classrooms where you whisper something into someone's ear and pass it along - by the end you turn "Sally has nice hair." into "We're having fried eggs on Saturday."
 
Right now, I am giving myself a chance to explore my spiritual side. Started with the Bible and Christianity. Even joined a Church. I am now officially part of the a youth Christian group. Yippie.

Don't worry guys, I'm still the same. I still love making fun of Jesus.

My belief is that many Christians harp about Jesus but never really try to love like Jesus. And His love is beyond our comprehension. Your spirituality should be personal. You have a personal relationship with God -- not with your pastor, the Bible or anyone else. So the next time some douchebag comes along and says "love the sinner, hate the sin", you go "Bitch, that's not for you to fucking decide. Bitch, you no Jesus, you bastard whore son of the Devil. Fuck off." But say it in a nice Christian sort of way.

Sins are humanly traits; to hate sin is to hate being human.
 
I didn't read all of the comments, so I hope I'm not repeating.

I think those are defensive phrases. I live in the south, I heard them a lot.

Their main purpose is to shut up anyone who dares to argue with them. Because they don't view you as Christian, there's no way you can have a valid opinion on Christianity. Or so they think. It's the same as parents who tell you: "You don't have kids, you can't know anything about them." It's dismissive and let's them feel superior to you.

They think you won't have a come back for those statements.

(edit) Also, they're cult members. You don't really expect them to think for themselves, do you?
 
roadtripboy said:
I didn't read all of the comments, so I hope I'm not repeating.
Click to expand...
Can't tell; statements are way too vanilla....


Their main purpose is to shut up anyone who dares to argue with them. Because they don't view you as Christian, there's no way you can have a valid opinion on Christianity. Or so they think. It's the same as parents who tell you: "You don't have kids, you can't know anything about them." It's dismissive and let's them feel superior to you.[/QUOTE]
So...how about actually adding to the conversation and show us why they are merely "defensive statements"? Any moron can say something; it would be nice to actually see you say something that can debated against.

Also, they're cult members. You don't really expect them to think for themselves, do you?
Click to expand...
Yep; damn atheists. They can sure quote that Marx and Neitsche stuff, but have they actually read it? Oh....You were talking about Christians. Sorry; I always get the vanilla quoters confused...

RG
 
stevengnosis said:
you do realize that most christians feel guilty about their own sexuality??
Click to expand...
And this is an issue how? I think that any moral being is going to question some aspect of their sexuality at some point, and even feel guilty about it. I keep feeling like some people just did not pay attention to basic biology; sex, unless all you do is masturbate, always involves two or more people, with the potential of one person forcing their choices onto the other person/people. With STD's, pregnancy, and even the potential of rape, there are some decisions that need to be made, and not all of them will be the best one for the situation at hand, especially given that most decisions involving sex are more emotion-based than logic-based.

I'm not saying that abstinence should be the only option, but neither should be "you have an orifice, I have a dick; lets have sex NOW". A healthy sex life is more than saying "Yes! Yes! Oh yes!" all the time; sometimes a person should feel comfortable saying "no!" to someone else....

RG
 
Because overly religious people are stupid, ignorant, naive, and gullible hypocrites. There is no validity in a religious argument whatsoever. Simple as that. This is why I decided to go Atheist.
 
RobinGoodfellow said:
Welcome to Fallacial Thinking 101. The Ancient Jew didn't exactly have access to the scientific research we have today. All he knew is that his tribe (or tribes as the case may be) required a lot of kids in order to make up for those lost to disease and war, among things. The only way of doing this was to have sex, due to the lack of cloning machines in the area. Non-procreational sex did not create babies, especially if it were non-procreational sex between two guys (who didn't usually need to worry procreational sex as it was sort of not happening). Ergo, these were listed as sins, usually with a steep price, so as to seriously encourage the procreational kind of sex.

Not defending, just explaining...

RG
Click to expand...

Don't worry, I was well aware of all of that. Boy, I actually miss my old theology classes.
Yes, too many do not even have any understanding of the historical context of these things...
 
Ruafei said:
So what happened to Deuteronomy 4:2

"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

when the modern bible was torn and cleaved from all of the written scripture into something more of a compromise to the leadership of the time to settle debate and arguement?

There were too many contradictions (even before what we now see) and so some of it 'had to go' - why then would such a thing be necessary? Because no matter how many claim that the bible is divine command, it is written by man and man is imperfect. I do not claim to know the mind of God, nor should anyone else who is even partially sane - to live by the common sense of treating others as we would wish to be treated, and leaving the world a better place for our being here and doing the best that we can is all that we can do so that, for those who believe it will come, when we stand before our judgment in the afterlife we may do so with open heart and mind.

I do believe in God, and I do believe that he is the kind and merciful creator/father that is spoken of so often - I also believe in His wrath that is spoken of in the bible, towards those who blatantly turn against Him, but most of all, I believe that if we are able to stand before Him in the end and honestly say we did our best to leave the world brighter, happier, and with more love than when we entered it, that our mortal imperfections will be forgiven.

So now that I've had my little rant, to answer the OP, I'm not so tired of being 'tolerated' as I am of the insanity of the mortal claiming to know the will of the divine by words written by mortals who claimed to know the will of the divine - words copied down after telling and retelling of stories in the verbal tradition of the time (because it's not like there were people carrying around pen and paper at every step and popping into the corner store when they needed more papyrus, reeds, and ink...) and like the game some teachers play in elementary classrooms where you whisper something into someone's ear and pass it along - by the end you turn "Sally has nice hair." into "We're having fried eggs on Saturday."
Click to expand...

well said.
 
stevengnosis said:
you do realize that most christians feel guilty about their own sexuality??
knowing this why do you choose to interact with them ??
Click to expand...

Yes, of course I am well aware many religious types, particularly Christians, struggle with their sexuality. I deeply feel for them, and know it is not an easy process.

I don't usually interact with these types. I know people from all types of spiritual backgrounds and beliefs, or lack thereof... but for the most part, I don't think any are fundamentalist types. I knew a few back in high school, even though they were quite nice and I did get along with them.
My comments from the original post are more so in relation to what I constantly hear about and read across the internet on blogs, news sites, forums, tv, etc. We all see and hear this kind of reasoning far too much.


There is just something to this idea that one can be "tolerated" ... but at the end of the day, there's just this one thing in your inherent makeup that makes you fundamentally less than them, of which one most likely did not choose...and yet, they look you in the face, with a smile, and say they "love" you anyway and that they are ultimately not judging. It's bullshit. It's condescending. Period.

Quite frankly, I think it's more than fundamentalist brainwashing. It's the fact that there are some people who simply cannot see nor accept people different than them (even if they can't fully understand it) as being their equals in humanity, and there just happen to be convenient ways for them to backup their bigoted personal beliefs. It's so deeply sad when that is in the name of someone and something that is supposed to be the opposite of that.
 
RobinGoodfellow said:
Can't tell; statements are way too vanilla....


Their main purpose is to shut up anyone who dares to argue with them. Because they don't view you as Christian, there's no way you can have a valid opinion on Christianity. Or so they think. It's the same as parents who tell you: "You don't have kids, you can't know anything about them." It's dismissive and let's them feel superior to you.
Click to expand...
So...how about actually adding to the conversation and show us why they are merely "defensive statements"? Any moron can say something; it would be nice to actually see you say something that can debated against.


Yep; damn atheists. They can sure quote that Marx and Neitsche stuff, but have they actually read it? Oh....You were talking about Christians. Sorry; I always get the vanilla quoters confused...

RG[/QUOTE]

I kinda figured you were smart enough to figure out for yourself why they're defensive statements.

And by the way...I'm not an atheist.
 
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