Citizens Should Work and Pay a Tax to Qualify for Universal Healthcare [SPLIT]

[TX-Beau]

Well, I suppose, in Ben's worldview (a Militant-Capitalist-Protestant, though he recently said he were NOT "Christian") this particular Christian term "charity" is matching:

Social Insurance/Social Security/etc. (the entire Welfare/Commonwealth complex) is NOT the individual's RIGHT in his POV, NOR is it society's/community's OBLIGATION; in his POV, it's: an act of grace.

Who knows what Benvolio actually is, consistency has never seemed to matter where Ben is concerned, or fact for that matter.

 

[TX-Beau]

Medicaid is not charity. The government does not provide charity. It provides tax funded services.

Medicaid is universal health care for selected classes of citizens.

Wow.

I find it morbidly amusing that people like Ben insist that we cut the cost of "big government" while ensuring that we all pay the highest amount of profit to third parties, for the worst coverage in the developed world - one assumes it doesn't really matter to them if we get gouged, just so long as the gouging is done in the least accountable way, and we get nothing in return for it.

 

[rareboy]

I find it morbidly amusing that people like Ben insist that we cut the cost of "big government" while ensuring that we all pay the highest amount of profit to third parties, for the worst coverage in the developed world - one assumes it doesn't really matter to them if we get gouged, just so long as the gouging is done in the least accountable way, and we get nothing in return for it.

Just load a few billion dollars on pallets please and leave it in the lobby of the insurance industry.

The pity is that with a single payer system, more people could be treated more effectively at a lower case cost with the same total dollars.

 

[Kulindahr]

Ranches raise cattle. What kind of ranchers talk about "threshing"? I don't believe you have visited "ranches" where they talk about "threshing".

Ever heard the term "cattle ranch"? That term exists to distinguish a ranch dedicated just to cattle from other ranches. I've been on cattle ranches, sheep ranches, hog ranches, even a buffalo ranch and an elk ranch.

And LOTS of ranches "talk abut threshing", even cattle ranchers, because many of them raise grain for their cattle. There's a dairy ranch not far from here that raises clover, alfalfa, corn, and soy. Of the ranches I've been on, the only one that didn't raise (and thresh) any grains was the last of those. the elk ranch.

 

[rareboy]

^ You are acting like Benvolio has the least clue about what is going on the real world. But the fact remains...he totally fucked up when he attempted to move a point about the underpinnings of American rural community practises into the present.

At the moment, by the way, there are combines taking off the last of the starch corn from our fields. It is as mechanical and antiseptic as it gets.

I yearn for the days when communities actually came together for harvest for crops that actually supported their livestock for the winter.

 

[Kulindahr]

Your whole threshing nonsense is based on a total misapprehension of the point that was being made about the historical demonstation of socialism in the last few centuries in America. It doesn't matter if I have done. It doesn't matter if anyone else here has done it. Historically, many farming communities had communal threshing days because it was cheaper for all of them to do so and many hands made lighter work. Just like in the past, communities got together to raise barns and build rural churches and community buildings.

Even when I was growing up, the community came together to help build the addition to the community hall.

I don't know if you confused the point being made intentionally or whether you were just simply unable to grasp it.

I would also note that for every time you cite the story of the failure of one early pilgrim settlement, I could cite communities like the Shakers that thrived and prospered and in fact, contributed many important inventions.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers

The Shakers aren't the only example of a communist society which was highly productive and innovative. A classic example was the Cistercian Order, which made many advancements in husbandry, wine making, brewing, engineering, accounting, architecture and more, and had actually started a minor industrial revolution in England until their lands were all ceased by King Henry, having made advancements in smelting and other aspects of metal production. Indeed, thanks hugely to the Cistercians, most of the technological advancement during the Middle Ages were made in monasteries.

 

[Kulindahr]

If you had universal health coverage, you wouldn't need Medicaid. Win-win.

My dad, as far back as I can remember, advocated for universal national service after the Robert Heinlein fashion, with everyone who put in four years getting both health care and food support as benefits for those veterans.

In his last couple of decades, he made getting rid of the VA part of his idea, after the crappy service he got from them.

 

[Kulindahr]

Well, I suppose, in Ben's worldview (a Militant-Capitalist-Protestant, though he recently said he were NOT "Christian") this particular Christian term "charity" is matching:

Social Insurance/Social Security/etc. (the entire Welfare/Commonwealth complex) is NOT the individual's RIGHT in his POV, NOR is it society's/community's OBLIGATION; in his POV, it's: an act of grace.

In the theology of St. Paul, it's both an obligation and an act of grace. It's hard to escape the conclusion that anyone who wants to call this a Christian nation should be advocating both universal health care and retirement support.

 

[Kulindahr]

I find it morbidly amusing that people like Ben insist that we cut the cost of "big government" while ensuring that we all pay the highest amount of profit to third parties, for the worst coverage in the developed world - one assumes it doesn't really matter to them if we get gouged, just so long as the gouging is done in the least accountable way, and we get nothing in return for it.

Yes! To such as ben, only gouging by the government is evil; gouging by private enterprise is to be praised.

I'm uncertain how he would rate gouging by religious organizations.

 

[jbrown329]

Yeah, people like Ben would have me die. How? I can't afford medications for diabetes, epilepsy, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and depression. I can't work (no matter how much I want to, and I wish that I could), and without Medicaid... I'm no longer for this world.

I can't stand longer than 15 minutes. When I try, my thigh starts to burn. Then it goes numb. The skin on my thigh gets cold to the touch. If I keep trying to stand, my leg gives out and down on my ass I go. If I walk to slow, the same thing happens. If I don't find a place to sit down, it's not a pretty sight.

Now I'm finding it extremely hard to sit in my computer chair. It makes my coccyx hurt so bad that I want to scream. Both are from arthritis in my back. Now I have 1 knee starting to act up (making me think that arthritis has set in there too). My grandmother had arthritis. My mother has arthritis. Both my uncles have arthritis. My aunt has arthritis. My brother has arthritis. And I now have arthritis. Thanks grandma (ain't heredity a bitch?).

 

[Willie Boy]

The Shakers aren't the only example of a communist society which was highly productive and innovative. A classic example was the Cistercian Order, which made many advancements in husbandry, wine making, brewing, engineering, accounting, architecture and more, and had actually started a minor industrial revolution in England until their lands were all ceased by King Henry, having made advancements in smelting and other aspects of metal production. Indeed, thanks hugely to the Cistercians, most of the technological advancement during the Middle Ages were made in monasteries.

Wait! King Henry Ceased lands? Did he desist them as well? Or were you trying to say he seized them? Because that is a big difference.

 

[mightbe]

Not to revive the dead argument, but:

"Combining" is *very* frequently used as a verb to refer to the part of the harvesting process performed by a combine, but in both cases the stress is on the "com". I've long suspected that Benvolio and I are reasonably close to one another, and perhaps this is simply a regionalism endemic to the area (Kansas/Nebraska/Missouri tri-state area).

I have in fact NEVER heard of "threshing" being used to refer to the process, though obviously that is a name for a part of the process, as is "winnowing" etc. My family owns and runs a large agricultural business in NW Missouri and "combining" is the verb of choice. Perhaps threshing is used in other areas, but it's not universal.

 

[Benvolio]

Ever heard the term "cattle ranch"? That term exists to distinguish a ranch dedicated just to cattle from other ranches. I've been on cattle ranches, sheep ranches, hog ranches, even a buffalo ranch and an elk ranch.

And LOTS of ranches "talk abut threshing", even cattle ranchers, because many of them raise grain for their cattle. There's a dairy ranch not far from here that raises clover, alfalfa, corn, and soy. Of the ranches I've been on, the only one that didn't raise (and thresh) any grains was the last of those. the elk ranch.

I don't belive they talk sbout threshing. They no doubt use a combine for any grain and say so. No, they don't thresh clover or alfalfa either.

 

[Willie Boy]

Not to revive the dead argument, but:

"Combining" is *very* frequently used as a verb to refer to the part of the harvesting process performed by a combine, but in both cases the stress is on the "com". I've long suspected that Benvolio and I are reasonably close to one another, and perhaps this is simply a regionalism endemic to the area (Kansas/Nebraska/Missouri tri-state area).

I have in fact NEVER heard of "threshing" being used to refer to the process, though obviously that is a name for a part of the process, as is "winnowing" etc. My family owns and runs a large agricultural business in NW Missouri and "combining" is the verb of choice. Perhaps threshing is used in other areas, but it's not universal.

The point is it is actually HARVESTING. Threshing is just a part of that. In most of the US, and other English speaking nations, the process of harvesting continues to be called harvesting, regardless of whether the harvesters work by hand and engage in the individual steps separately, use machines to d=o it separately, or use the COMBINE HARVESTERS (which combine all steps) to do them at once....... It is still harvesting.

Maybe you are right, it is possible in you little corner of things some have taken the word com-bine to be synonymous with harvest as the combine harvesters are used...... But to the rest of the world that just sounds silly.

 

[Benvolio]

The Shakers aren't the only example of a communist society which was highly productive and innovative. A classic example was the Cistercian Order, which made many advancements in husbandry, wine making, brewing, engineering, accounting, architecture and more, and had actually started a minor industrial revolution in England until their lands were all ceased by King Henry, having made advancements in smelting and other aspects of metal production. Indeed, thanks hugely to the Cistercians, most of the technological advancement during the Middle Ages were made in monasteries.

Therr is little personal freedom in a monastety; it is essentially a dictatorship, and monks are expected to be silent. No sex allowed. It is hardly a model for a socialist/liberal/communist society in which you would want to live.

 

[Benvolio]

Yeah, people like Ben would have me die. How? I can't afford medications for diabetes, epilepsy, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and depression. I can't work (no matter how much I want to, and I wish that I could), and without Medicaid... I'm no longer for this world.

I can't stand longer than 15 minutes. When I try, my thigh starts to burn. Then it goes numb. The skin on my thigh gets cold to the touch. If I keep trying to stand, my leg gives out and down on my ass I go. If I walk to slow, the same thing happens. If I don't find a place to sit down, it's not a pretty sight.

Now I'm finding it extremely hard to sit in my computer chair. It makes my coccyx hurt so bad that I want to scream. Both are from arthritis in my back. Now I have 1 knee starting to act up (making me think that arthritis has set in there too). My grandmother had arthritis. My mother has arthritis. Both my uncles have arthritis. My aunt has arthritis. My brother has arthritis. And I now have arthritis. Thanks grandma (ain't heredity a bitch?).

Actually I approve of Medicaid, at#211.

 

[TX-Beau]

Actually I approve of Medicaid, at#211.

How can Ben possibly support Medicaid and still look him/her/it-self in the mirror?

 

[mightbe]

No, combining is not an overall word for harvesting, but the verb for when a combine is actually used. Most people don't say that they're harvesting and use it as a verb, they use harvest as a noun, or harvesting as an adjective. I'm simply describing what people say, I'm not into prescriptivism. Harvesting is the general word, and gets used less because of it, because usually people are trying to describe or explain the specific process or action they completed.

In other words, people use a combine to harvest therefore instead of saying harvesting, the say combining because it is widely understood to mean "using a combine (harvester) to harvest"

Harvesting (the verb) is used in the general sense. When there is a more specific verb to describe the action, it is used instead

 

[mightbe]

Perhaps the misunderstanding and confusion lies in the fact that usually these things are said, not written. Written documents are usually a notch or two more formal. That doesn't mean it's the most common phrasing in some areas. You're making this into a huge issue, where really there is none. I understood perfectly well what Benvolio was saying, even though it was not as technical and formal as is sometimes expected in writing.

Again, it's said differently, even though there is no distinction on the page. The first syllable is pronounced like ".com", which easily differentiates the two, verbally at least. It would sound quite stupid to pronounce it the same as "regular" combining, and perhaps that's why some of you think it sounds uneducated. Actually, it's quite precise. I don't know how Benvolio originally used it, but it is a verb. He might've used it incorrectly, but that's not what I'm arguing.

 

[TX-Beau]

I grew up farming and I never heard anyone say "combining." I've heard harvest, and I've heard harvesting.

The issue was that Ben said threshing was an "archaic" process no longer in use.

All the "combine" silliness came about because of that.