Civil Unions in Hawaii

[BostonPirate]

Do you have an actual opinion or response concerning the vetoing of civil unions by this republican governor?

he defends the repubs at any cost. He works for a repub congressman.

 

[BostonPirate]

All right, then it's a good thing we have Olympia Snow and Susan Collins to keep that from happening. As far as I can tell, they and Justice Kennedy are the lynch-pins that would keep it from happening anytime soon.

Agreed there.

I wonder how far the extreme right will try to go now that they know they can get away with so much. It is worrisome.

Torture, preemtive war, and a host of social tinkering the likes of which america has never seen before.

At what point does the party itself become an illegal organization?

 

[laikaNYC]

You know what? They're born in the same vein that make Republicans the fascist bigoted bastards they are.

Oh now you're comparing Republicans to Fascists

When will your insane comparisons ever stop...we will never know

 

[laikaNYC]

torture was illegal until cheney and bush. We have held citizens in american concentration camps as recently as 1945... well 2010 if you count guantanamo.

Just how far of a jump is it?

we have seen an emergence of a radical armed right wing militia driven phenom called the teabaggers.

If they are given a foothold on our nation, what is NOT possible?

which american citizens have been held in Guantanamo? Do tell.

and i'm guessing these "american concentration camps" in 1945 that you're referring to is FDR (Democrat) authorizing the Japanese Internment Camps in 1942

 

[hotatlboi]

We have held citizens in american concentration camps as recently as 1945

Very good point.

And it was done because they were (ignorantly) viewed as a threat to the country.

That's not far removed from the language in the Texas GOP platform which says that gay people "tear at the fabric of society".

It seems that gay Republicans are incredibly blind to just how prevalent the hate toward them is in this party. They've trivialized it and played it down like it doesn't affect them. How they have concluded this I know not.

 

[construct]

Agreed there.

I wonder how far the extreme right will try to go now that they know they can get away with so much. It is worrisome.

Torture, preemtive war, and a host of social tinkering the likes of which america has never seen before.

At what point does the party itself become an illegal organization?

Hmm. Is there such a thing as an illegal organization? I mean, it's legal to be a Communist, isn't it? Didn't we have this discussion back in the 1950s?

I'm just glad that Justice Kennedy has life-tenure! You know, judicial appointments really are an important consideration in selecting a President . . . well, not for most people, but they should be.

 

[hotatlboi]

FDR (Democrat) authorizing the Japanese Internment Camps in 1942

It seems that all you can do is point out flaws in your opponents and you are completely unable to acknowledge any flaws in the Republicans.

Let's say I agree with you that FDR was batshit stupid for putting Japanese people in internment camps.

Can you then agree with me that the modern GOP is batshit stupid for its over the top hatred and bigotry towards gay people? I'll be surprised if you can.

 

[construct]

Do you have an actual opinion or response concerning the vetoing of civil unions by this republican governor?

Where the fuck is that "yawn" smilie? Oh, well. We're still waiting.

 

[laikaNYC]

It seems that all you can do is point out flaws in your opponents and you are completely unable to acknowledge any flaws in the Republicans.

Let's say I agree with you that FDR was batshit stupid for putting Japanese people in internment camps.

Can you then agree with me that the modern GOP is batshit stupid for it's over the top hatred and bigotry towards gay people? I'll be surprised if you can.

the modern GOP as a whole? no.

thats like saying the entire Democratic party was batshit because of something one man from their party did.

 

[BostonPirate]

guys... he cannot bring himself to say that the organisation he supports and works for is harming his personal rights.

He is more interested in winning this arguement than being correct to the facts.

its all just spin.

 

[construct]

guys... he cannot bring himself to say that the organisation he supports and works for is harming his personal rights.

He is more interested in winning this arguement than being correct to the facts.

its all just spin.

Winning this argument? He hasn't even engaged this argument! I think the argument is over Gov. Lingle and her veto of the civil unions bill--something like, "What was she thinking?!!!"

 

[BostonPirate]

which american citizens have been held in Guantanamo? Do tell.

here

The United States Department of Defense acknowledges holding three American citizens captured in Afghanistan, during the "war on terror", and one of them was held, for a time, in Guantanamo.[1] Guantanamo was only supposed to be used to detain non-Americans. But although Yasser Hamdi was born in the USA, he was raised in Saudi Arabia, and Joint Task Force Guantanamo counter-terrorism analysts did not realize he was an American. He was eventually repatriated to Saudi Arabia, provided he agreed to renounce his US citizenship.

you really have no idea what you are defending, do you?

and i'm guessing these "american concentration camps" in 1945 that you're referring to is FDR (Democrat) authorizing the Japanese Internment Camps in 1942

I am not a member of a party. I am registered as a non affiliated voter. I get to skip the primaries.

so what do I care who did what and when? I do not mindlessly defend one party just because I am a member. You'd need to look in the mirror to see that guy.

 

[hotatlboi]

the modern GOP as a whole? no.

thats like saying the entire Democratic party was batshit because of something one man from their party did.

Didn't think you could.

lmao, one man?

The hatred and bigotry comes from more like 90-95% of their members.

 

[construct]

Didn't think you could.

lmao, one man?

The hatred and bigotry comes from more like 90-95% of their members.

"Hatred and bigotry" . . . hmmm. Sounds good. I'll have to use that sometime. Yaknow, try it out.

 

[BostonPirate]

Hmm. Is there such a thing as an illegal organization? I mean, it's legal to be a Communist, isn't it? Didn't we have this discussion back in the 1950s?

I'm just glad that Justice Kennedy has life-tenure! You know, judicial appointments really are an important consideration in selecting a President . . . well, not for most people, but they should be.

there are american al qaeda terrorist cells. they are illegal.

I guess the real question is when does a group of people who make an organization become a conspiracy to do harm to people of the USA. last I checked, gays were still considered citizens.

So what level of intended harm makes an illegal conspiracy?

 

[construct]

there are american al qaeda terrorist cells. they are illegal.

I guess the real question is when does a group of people who make an organization become a conspiracy to do harm to people of the USA. last I checked, gays were still considered citizens.

So what level of intended harm makes an illegal conspiracy?

Legal tests for conspiracy vary from state to state. I'm not sure what it is in federal law. Conspiracy in general is an agreement to carry out a plan to commit a crime. It generally requires some action towards the implementation of that plan, but how far you have to go is what varies.

And yeah, you're right that terrorist clubs would qualify as illegal organizations. I was stuck on thinking about sort of legitimate political parties. The Communist Party was the first thing that came to mind.

 

[construct]

Winning this argument? He hasn't even engaged this argument! I think the argument is over Gov. Lingle and her veto of the civil unions bill--something like, "What was she thinking?!!!"

We're still waiting.

 

[laikaNYC]

We're still waiting.

She said she wants the voters of Hawaii to decide. Did you not bother to read it?

 

[BostonPirate]

Legal tests for conspiracy vary from state to state. I'm not sure what it is in federal law. Conspiracy in general is an agreement to carry out a plan to commit a crime. It generally requires some action towards the implementation of that plan, but how far you have to go is what varies.

And yeah, you're right that terrorist clubs would qualify as illegal organizations. I was stuck on thinking about sort of legitimate political parties. The Communist Party was the first thing that came to mind.

its the fine line between freedom of hate speech and the willingness to act on it, then?

that makes sense.

So is organising and acting to deprive americans of their civil liberties within that definition. I know that is not how it is currently interpreted, but what case law makes it so?

I seem to have more questions than answers....lol

 

[construct]

She said she wants the voters of Hawaii to decide. Did you not bother to read it?

So she wants a pass. Do you?