Op-Ed Civility in American Politics - the ghost in the machine.

[chance1]

you don't get the moral high ground because it appears, by reading your posts, that you have yet to find it.

I don't start self serving antagonistic threads that invite more self serving antagonistic types to spew

and last i recall you've been back for what a week? so why not observe a bit before the know it all play

 

[EasyRory]

... it is my contention that we are reduced to a lot of this pointlessness because of disrespect .... Certainly we shouldn’t fall to that level, but when the other side not only will not engage, but will not even listen, what is left?

This is the fundamental problem with trying to talk to the right.

Except, I wouldn't limit it to the right. I'd say both sides are more or less equally guilty.

A German philosopher/communications theorist Jurgen Habermas, who started out as a Marxist, says it is everyone's obligation to study and understand the other side's agrument before attempting to counter it. Unfortunately, almost nobody in American politics listens to him. If they did, we'd have a much more intelligent discussion.

 

[Kulindahr]

Except, I wouldn't limit it to the right. I'd say both sides are more or less equally guilty.

A German philosopher/communications theorist Jurgen Habermas, who started out as a Marxist, says it is everyone's obligation to study and understand the other side's agrument before attempting to counter it. Unfortunately, almost nobody in American politics listens to him. If they did, we'd have a much more intelligent discussion.

There's a good reason that the Federalist Papers and the AntiFederalist Papers should be read, together, in all high schools: those guys plainly took the time to understand their opponents' positions.

 

[Benvolio]

Except, I wouldn't limit it to the right. I'd say both sides are more or less equally guilty.

A German philosopher/communications theorist Jurgen Habermas, who started out as a Marxist, says it is everyone's obligation to study and understand the other side's agrument before attempting to counter it. Unfortunately, almost nobody in American politics listens to him. If they did, we'd have a much more intelligent discussion.

Perhaps, but a bigger problem is that we do not believe they are stating their true goals and purposes. We think that the other side has a hidden agenda and hidden purposes- and often they do. But it renders listening and understanding worthless.

 

[Rolyo85]

Except, I wouldn't limit it to the right. I'd say both sides are more or less equally guilty.

A German philosopher/communications theorist Jurgen Habermas, who started out as a Marxist, says it is everyone's obligation to study and understand the other side's agrument before attempting to counter it. Unfortunately, almost nobody in American politics listens to him. If they did, we'd have a much more intelligent discussion.

They might be equally guilty NOW, but this is not a chicken and egg problem. It is entirely too easy to see which party began shifting the attitude toward simplistic intolerance and vilification. The party of intolerance and vilification.

 

[Benvolio]

They might be equally guilty NOW, but this is not a chicken and egg problem. It is entirely too easy to see which party began shifting the attitude toward simplistic intolerance and vilification. The party of intolerance and vilification.

Wrong as the party of minorities, vilification and intolerance are a Democrat policy aimed at dividing more minorities from the assimilated majority.

 

[TX-Beau]

Except, I wouldn't limit it to the right. I'd say both sides are more or less equally guilty.

A German philosopher/communications theorist Jurgen Habermas, who started out as a Marxist, says it is everyone's obligation to study and understand the other side's argument before attempting to counter it. Unfortunately, almost nobody in American politics listens to him. If they did, we'd have a much more intelligent discussion.

Well, that’s a little ivory tower and kinda preachy. Down here on the ground it’s certainly NOT anyone’s obligation to study and understand anything.

It would be nice if that were true, but it’s not, and it never has been. That sounds suspiciously like a utopian ideal.

I thought about this pretty carefully before I posted. I came to this conclusion. It doesn’t matter. People in here could be nice as peaches to the right and the right would not reciprocate. They would still live in the world of fantasy they’ve created for themselves. Tossing out mass insults, wearing their tin foil hats, pretending that assertion is actually fact.

It’s the Obama lesson; you can’t meet someone halfway who isn’t willing to budge an inch.

Plus I do believe that the vitriol and the sneering started on the right. Is it wrong to respond in kind? Wrong? Maybe, maybe not, it’s not helpful either way – but that’s where the lesson kicks in, you can’t be nice to people who are going to post this:

Wrong as the party of minorities, vilification and intolerance are a Democrat policy aimed at dividing more minorities from the assimilated majority.

I mean really? What is the “assimilated majority,” where are these Democratic “policies,” documented? Can he tell us? Hell no, at best he can point us to someone just like him who can’t tell us either.

It’s pure fantasy that he uses to justify his prejudices and whatever else emotional need he has to believe in cabals and conspiracies.

Not to mention it’s insulting, not only to my intelligence but also (taken with everything else he posts) personally as well.

ALL DEMOCRATS ARE PART OF VICIOUS CABALS TO DO SOME (non-specified) EVIL TO THE ASSILILATED MAJORITY!!!

What does that even mean? Nothing, it’s just something he made up because Rolyo said “The party of intolerance and vilification.”

He didn’t try to argue or discuss, he went straight to fantasy.

Does the left do this? Perhaps, it can be argued that Rolyo did (after lots of day in day out provocation, even though he didn’t run straight for his tin foil hat), but it’s nowhere near as visible as the right if they do, and nowhere near as filled with bile and antagonism.

You can’t talk to that, you can’t reason with it. Trying to be “fair,” to that is pointless, you either respond in kind or you ignore.

And there it is.

 

[Telstra]

"Certainly we shouldn’t fall to that level, but when the other side not only will not engage, but will not even listen, what is left?"

That happens all the time with religious debate.

 

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

Wrong as the party of minorities, vilification and intolerance are a Democrat policy aimed at dividing more minorities from the assimilated majority.

So... the party that embraces that minorities exist and attempts to grant them rights so that they can become part of the equally treated majority is opposed to assimilation? Makes sense...

And, by process of elimination, the party of status quo bigotry that ignores minorities exist and expects them to gain these rights through osmosis and just put up with hatred in the meantime is the party of assimilation. I see...

 

[Benvolio]

The Democrats continuously accuse Republicans of racism, war on women etc. These are not discussions of policy, they are vilifications intended to divide the country for their purely partisan purposes. The Democrat party is the party of minorities. The more minorities and the more hateful, the more votes. Divide and conquer.

 

[TX-Beau]

Ben, if your politicians say asinine things, that's not the fault of anyone else - no matter how long you stick your fingers in your ears and hum really loudly.

Perhaps if you don't like it, you should consider the wing-nuts you support instead of inventing fantasies that jut make you look like you rode the short bus.

 

[Benvolio]

Ben, if your politicians say asinine things, that's not the fault of anyone else - no matter how long you stick your fingers in your ears and hum really loudly.

Perhaps if you don't like it, you should consider the wing-nuts you support instead of inventing fantasies that jut make you look like you rode the short bus.

This is a thread about incivility, and you illustrate it very well. You are not a person who is able to discuss an issue.

 

[TX-Beau]

When you decide to try and discuss something, you'll be amazed at how accommodating I can be.

If you persist in pointless declarative about the fantasies in your head. I'll speak using the only language you seem to hear.

That WAS the point of all of this.

 

[Kulindahr]

I mean really? What is the “assimilated majority,” where are these Democratic “policies,” documented? Can he tell us? Hell no, at best he can point us to someone just like him who can’t tell us either.

"Assimilated majority" is a term intended to degrade minorities by saying "You're not like us, so you're not good enough! If you want to be Real Americans (TM), you have to become just like us!"

 

[TX-Beau]

"Assimilated majority" is a term intended to degrade minorities by saying "You're not like us, so you're not good enough! If you want to be Real Americans (TM), you have to become just like us!"

Well yeah, but I got this wild hare up my ass and decided not to accuse him of outright bigotry.

 

[Benvolio]

"Assimilated majority" is a term intended to degrade minorities by saying "You're not like us, so you're not good enough! If you want to be Real Americans (TM), you have to become just like us!"

There is a large group of Americans who no longer consider themselves to be part if a minority. They share a common culture with slight variations, similar values and goals. The have ancestries of course from other countries but probably a mixture of ancestries, so they do not think of German, or Irish, or English or Welsh as being a separate group with a separate language, culture or community. Unfortunately, there is no recognized name for the group but they are a majority and they are assimilated into a common culture and community. The melting pot. E Pluribus Unum-from many one. This was the common goal before the counter culture of the 60'. They largely vote Republican and liberals hate the concept.

 

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

The Democrats continuously accuse Republicans of racism, war on women etc. These are not discussions of policy, they are vilifications intended to divide the country for their purely partisan purposes. The Democrat party is the party of minorities. The more minorities and the more hateful, the more votes. Divide and conquer.

Umm... you literally just repeated the same inane gibberish while adding nothing to support your "point". You could have, for example, provided statistics on black, latino and female incomes ...or the record number of anti-abortion bills Republicans have passed as evidence that these "wars" are made up... oh, wait...that's right... that wouldn't work. And, income distribution and reproductive rights... I mean... what the hell do those have to do with policy, right?

This is a thread about incivility, and you illustrate it very well. You are not a person who is able to discuss an issue.

I will say this as civilly as possible: sir, please stop speaking out of your ass. Thank you.

 

[TX-Beau]

There is a large group of Americans who no longer consider themselves to be part if a minority. They share a common culture with slight variations, similar values and goals. The have ancestries of course from other countries but probably a mixture of ancestries, so they do not think of German, or Irish, or English or Welsh as being a separate group with a separate language, culture or community. Unfortunately, there is no recognized name for the group but they are a majority and they are assimilated into a common culture and community. The melting pot. E Pluribus Unum-from many one. This was the common goal before the counter culture of the 60'. They largely vote Republican and liberals hate the concept.

Bullshit. You know nothing about liberals either so stop pretending you do. (not that you will) So let me return the favor.

Ben hates the concept that brown people don't fall all over themselves kissing his ass because as a white man his life has been disappointing.

You stop making shit up about everyone else. I'll stop telling the truth about you.

See how that works?

 

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

There is a large group of Americans who no longer consider themselves to be part if a minority. They share a common culture with slight variations, similar values and goals. The have ancestries of course from other countries but probably a mixture of ancestries, so they do not think of German, or Irish, or English or Welsh as being a separate group with a separate language, culture or community. Unfortunately, there is no recognized name for the group but they are a majority and they are assimilated into a common culture and community. The melting pot. E Pluribus Unum-from many one. This was the common goal before the counter culture of the 60'. They largely vote Republican and liberals hate the concept.

Congratulations, I award you top honors for "THE Most Racist Post Ever"! You should be proud. There IS a name for this group; they are called White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Somehow your shitty "melting pot" found it impossible to the meld individuals not only based on their religion, but also on merely the color of their skin. And, for the record, this was occurring well before the hippies fucked things up in the 1960's.

Like... you can't just make shit up.

 

[Kulindahr]

Congratulations, I award you top honors for "THE Most Racist Post Ever"! You should be proud. There IS a name for this group; they are called White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Somehow your shitty "melting pot" found it impossible to the meld individuals not only based on their religion, but also on merely the color of their skin. And, for the record, this was occurring well before the hippies fucked things up in the 1960's.
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Like... you can't just make shit up.

They missed the Germans, who came fast enough to nearly make a majority.