Op-Ed Civility in American Politics - the ghost in the machine.

[Benvolio]

Congratulations, I award you top honors for "THE Most Racist Post Ever"! You should be proud. There IS a name for this group; they are called White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Somehow your shitty "melting pot" found it impossible to the meld individuals not only based on their religion, but also on merely the color of their skin. And, for the record, this was occurring well before the hippies fucked things up in the 1960's.
View attachment 864430
Like... you can't just make shit up.

WASPs (English Protestants) are only a portion of the majority. It now includes people from alll European coubtries, some Blacks, some Hispanis Asians, and most all ethnic groups. The group exists whether the liberals like it or not.

 

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

WASPs (English Protestants) are only a portion of the majority. It now includes people from alll European coubtries, some Blacks, some Hispanis Asians, and most all ethnic groups. The group exists whether the liberals like it or not.

Like... sigh... I don't know where to begin...

I'm glad you "allowed" other races into your majority this time. That's very accepting of you. You do mention "most all ethnic groups" contribute now; out of curiosity, can you enlighten me in regards to what ethnic groups still have not have been initiated into your restricted club?

For the record, just as many Americans identify as Democrats as Republicans. And, your only basis for claiming Republicans are assimilators is that they all vote Republican (which seems kind of circular) because of "shared values". Thus, by your ridiculous logic, why can't I just claim Democrats are the uniters and the Republicans are an unholy alliance of the Tea Partiers, the Religious Right, gun advocates, big business, White Supremacists, bitter closeted homosexuals, and other bigots? But, that would make me sound like a complete loon, right?

I also am amused that you brought up African Americans. This group, since their origin on the continent, had several generations born and raised (at first by force) into the very WASP "culture and community" you praise so heavily by the 1960s. By your logic, I bet these people must have "assimilated" into your magical Republican melting pot stupendously well... I mean the only thing that was different was their skin color. Survey says:

One Poll Finds Zero Percent Of Blacks Support Romney : The Two-Way : NPR

Oh, well...

 

[rareboy]

Well Benvolio.

You've topped yourself this time.

And the fact is, you are just plain wrong. The Republicans are not the party of unity. Period. It was the Nixon Southern Strategy that started the ball rolling by exploiting the whites' fear and anger over civil rights and equality for blacks, but it was Karl Rove, who brought to perfection the idea that the Republican Party would only be successful by parsing the country into even smaller niche groups for the base to hate on. So pretty much, starting in the 1950's....

Hate Commies? Or anyone who thinks that Americans are entitled to freedom of thought and expression? We've got the party for you!

Afraid of a Catholic President? We've got the party for you!

Hate them blacks getting so uppity and not sitting at the back of the bus? We've got the party for you!

Hate them hippy peaceniks? We've got the party for you!

Hate the idea of homosexuals? We've got the party for you!

Hate the idea of women having the right to choose? We've got the party for you!

Hate the idea of equal rights for women? We've got the party for you!

Hate the idea of homosexuals adopting? We've got the party for you!

Hate immigrants from Mexico except when you hire them to mow your lawn? We've got the party for you!

Hate the idea of non-christians getting control of the country? We've got the party for you!

Hate the idea of homosexuals marrying? We've got the party for you!

Hate big cities and fancy education? We've got the party for you!

Hate evolution? We've got the party for you!

Have I left out anyone? Oh Yeah!

Hate Muslims? We've got the party for you!

Hate black women fist bumping their Muslim immigrant husband all the way into the White House? We've got the party for you!


So Benvolio. Your silly notion that Republicans are just this big tent of homogenized people is wrong. There are so many people who have literally been branded by the Republicans as the enemy over the past 50 years that they can't walk back through the flaps. So the only people who are really left now are the angry christian hetero/closeted white men who are trying to keep a three ring circus going, but find that fewer and fewer people care to watch them anymore.

 

[Centexfarmer]

There are so many people who have literally been branded by the Republicans as the enemy over the past 50 years that they can't walk back through the flaps. So the only people who are really left now are the angry christian hetero/closeted white men who are trying to keep a three ring circus going, but find that fewer and fewer people care to watch them anymore.

Preach it!

Except it goes back much further than just 50 years.

It was McCarhyism then, and it's a much more refined version of McCarthyism now.

After the fall of Communism and the Berlin wall back in 1989 Republicans have been looking for an "enemy" to "blame" for their lack of ability to actually LEAD our country anywhere.

So they make up lies about WMD's and send America's youngest and brightest off to Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, while never themselves ever having served in the United States Armed Services.

They've bankrupted America's Treasure, both literally and figuratively pitting us against each other while they send American jobs overseas, and successfully convince Americans that "it's the Democrats fault."

The Rich get Richer, and America's Middle Class dwindles to servitude.

But don't blame Republicans!

It's those nasty tree hugging, Pro Mexican Illegal Immigration, Gay Loving, Anti Gun, Anti God, "socialist" Democrats.

'They're the ones to blame for not launching an effective counter assault against the lies and propaganda that we've been successfully feeding America dating back to Reagan and McCarthy!'

So don't be to hard on the guy for drinking the free swill.

Notice how I didn't say Kool Aid?

When you've got dozens of "Conservative Think Tanks" embedded within "Private" (and respected) American Universities, and funded by large (read taking advantage of charitable tax deductions) Corporations, and Narcissistic Media Moguls (job creators) controlling printed media, and world wide Cable News Channels, it's much easier to take their version of the "truth" than literally sticking one's head up their ass.

Seriously!

This looks far more uncomfortable:

Than this:

I just wished that more Americans would chose the OFF button, and actually READ something; like the U.S. Constitution, or American/World History Books.

 

[Benvolio]

And to think. This is a thread about civility.

 

[Centexfarmer]

And to think. This is a thread about civility.

The "truth" sometimes hurts.

Grab a chicken sandwich, some waffle fries, and a 32 oz drink from Chick A Filet (for less than $6 if you get the combo), share it with your friends on Facebook, and comfort what ails you.

 

[Kulindahr]

After the fall of Communism and the Berlin wall back in 1989 Republicans have been looking for an "enemy" to "blame" for their lack of ability to actually LEAD our country anywhere.

Actually, I think it's more a matter that they've forgotten how to lead unless they have an enemy to be against.

 

[chance1]

What a great idea

Individual posters start threads designed to denigrate

Then do so repeatedly

While the mods apply the fix

Probably the worst thread in the history of CE+P

Yearning for chrisrobin Bachman threads

Pile on bullshit is evidently in season

While the mods take late summer vacation

 

[BostonPirate]

It's politics buddy. Thats what it is.

It's not fair. It's not noble. it 's about changing people's minds. That does not happen in a vacuum.

You know what PR is all about, if Memory serves me correctly, and if you think for one minute the rest of us don't get the difference between PR and substance, then you have NOT understood what political conviction really means. I also think you know what political conviction means, but you are willing far too often to refer back to PR as a debate point rather than face an issue head on.

It really isn't a game for wimps. It's like Romney saying that he wants to be president based on business experience, and then refuses to discuss his business decisions.

Politicians understand the implications. Pr people think they can distract from the implications.

What route do you really want to take?

 

[TX-Beau]

And to think. This is a thread about civility.

Keep singing that song if it makes you feel all tingly.

If you’d actually read the first post, you’d realize I said civility is only possible when both sides participate.

This is the first line of the first post.

Don’t worry, this isn’t some pointless plea for people to be nice to one another...

I suggest you go back and actually read what I said, but you won’t, so here’s the gist. When people live in fantasy worlds in their heads….

THERE IS NO POINT IN TRYING TO REASON WITH THEM!

I simply can’t be clearer than that.

 

[TX-Beau]

What a great idea

Individual posters start threads designed to denigrate

Then do so repeatedly

While the mods apply the fix

Probably the worst thread in the history of CE+P

Yearning for chrisrobin Bachman threads

Pile on bullshit is evidently in season

While the mods take late summer vacation

I mean this in the nicest possible way Chance.

Bite me.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Actually, I think it's more a matter that they've forgotten how to lead unless they have an enemy to be against.

I should have consulted with you first.

You said in one sentence what I was trying to say in a few paragraphs.

 

[Rolyo85]

And when there is no constructive reply to be given, no rationalization or reasoning, it comes down to whining and playing the victim. And I wonder why I get bored browsing the forum..

 

[chance1]

I mean this in the nicest possible way Chance.

Bite me.

that's what the title of the thread should be "Bite me"

then add a smiley face

as for biting you ..........

not really into finger food - more of a full meal kinda guy

now to stay on topic because this is a serious topic not designed to bait and flame .......

never mind

 

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

What a great idea

Individual posters start threads designed to denigrate

Then do so repeatedly

While the mods apply the fix

Probably the worst thread in the history of CE+P

Yearning for chrisrobin Bachman threads

Pile on bullshit is evidently in season

While the mods take late summer vacation

A wise old sage once said:

cry me a river

Oh wait... that was you...

The ironic thing is that if you look back at the series of posts directly preceding your "this thread is mean" post, there is a lot of substantive fact there (with admittedly some choice words thrown in for effect). And, if it isn't substantive in your opinion, at least we gave plenty of ammunition for any dissenters to combat and point out how we're wrong... yet, rather than doing so, they instead played the victim card (like a certain presidential candidate to be left unnamed).

Out of curiousity, do you happen to agree with Benvolio's assertion? I noticed nowhere did you actually "endorse" his position... Or, were you merely "sticking up for the little guy" who was being "bullied" relentlessly?

And, finally, I can only speak for myself on this, but I, if you recall, was more than willing to admit both sides were playing dirty. But then I was supposed to sit back when someone claimed (with the most faulty and easily disproved logic EVER) that Democrats were the root of all evil in modern day political discourse?

 

[rareboy]

Here's the official card for the perpetual victims of liberal abuse.

 

[BostonPirate]

whatever

bottom line is this is not for public discourse

yet you make it as such

if you really gave a damn, it would go down very diff

and i bother because 15 is 1/6 (approx.) of 85 and i think the pile on sucks eggs

worse is that once reasonable types who u seem to not be bothered by - are now not only total acolytes but totally unreasonable to others

but since u share your POV, ur ok with it

and that sucks

Who made you the arbiter of public discourse. You are NOT the conscience of this place. Your leaps at times just don't make sense. Instead of annhialating someone on the substance, you run in, cry foul, insult people, yell about how badly you have been treated, run away.

And you know what?

Its a year later and it's like it was just yersterday I had read your posts. It's all the same stuff. You pull a nutty, and throw a tantrum if something is being discussed that you don't want discussed OR that you think you can't win.

You operate under the strange illusion that to be correct, you need to gain the most people to agree with you. That ain't it. yelling the loudest does not make the room listen.

John Fitzgerald Kennedy took a stand against his own party, the dems, who were engaged in "separate but equal" legislation.

Kennedy is considered great not because he fought and beat the other side. His greatness was in challenging his own party, and dramatically shifting the party composition. All the Dixiecrats went over to the GOP side, and the southern strategy was born less than a decade later. The root of GOP strength now resides there because people didn't like black folks. It was the reason they clung together, and they haven't really changed.

That manifested and came home to roost within the GOP when Obama was elected, and the GOP and the right became RABID for the last four years. When you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas. The GOP has fleas right now, and yelling at the person pointing to them wont make the fleas go away.

Now here's the deal.

Good politics isn't about following the herd and pouting when the group disagrees with you. Thats what voters do. Politicians fight for their ideals in america. We are a republic. Our government is representative. Referendum votes were intentionally skipped, and they did that because of ideas that went as far back as the mayflower pact.

The american democracy is built to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. You want to know how they leveled the field? Freedom of speech. You can talk just as loudly as the other guy, and when your arguments are convincing to people, you win the debate.

When your arguments are always about the personalities involved, people perceive a shrill operator, and they roll their eyes and mentally click the ignore button.

everytime you have one of these "its not fair" meltdowns, you make your point unseemly to the reader. For wahtever reason, be it style of writing or method of approach, I promise you, the content of your idea is not why people reject your opinions.

it's the way you present yourself when you express them. You vaccilate so wildly that no one even dares support you, cause when someone is stomping up and down in a pile of crap, people back away so nuttin gets splashed on THEM.

Serve yourself and your ideas more effectively. Aim at the Idea and do it with that Reagan eye twinkle.

THEN you will get the centrists here, most of whom you have alienated, to take your ideas and your points seriously. Find your passion, and get rid of the anger and fear. People smell that, and to them it wreaks of a desperate man.

You're going to take another shot at me personally for posting this, but it won't change the fact that when you do people will be repulsed by the way you acted and ignore the content of what you are trying to convey.

Your opponents know that. Is it baiting? no. Its knowing where your weakness is and getting you to assist them. When you go balls to the walls victim, people know that they landed a punch on you and that you felt it. Politicians cannot have a glass chin.

It's why you have lost the argument in this thread and so many others as you alienated virtually everyone, even the guys in charge that could have assisted you. That is why your ideas and why Romney is so unpopular.

Do us and yourself a favor. Dump the victim crap, and the 85 crap, and all the rest. Find a way to prove the person wrong with facts, presented with passion.

What you're doing now? It's not working for you. It's harming more than helping your cause.

 

[Kulindahr]

Who made you the arbiter of public discourse. You are NOT the conscience of this place. Your leaps at times just don't make sense. Instead of annhialating someone on the substance, you run in, cry foul, insult people, yell about how badly you have been treated, run away.

And you know what?

Its a year later and it's like it was just yersterday I had read your posts. It's all the same stuff. You pull a nutty, and throw a tantrum if something is being discussed that you don't want discussed OR that you think you can't win.

You operate under the strange illusion that to be correct, you need to gain the most people to agree with you. That ain't it. yelling the loudest does not make the room listen.

John Fitzgerald Kennedy took a stand against his own party, the dems, who were engaged in "separate but equal" legislation.

Kennedy is considered great not because he fought and beat the other side. His greatness was in challenging his own party, and dramatically shifting the party composition. All the Dixiecrats went over to the GOP side, and the southern strategy was born less than a decade later. The root of GOP strength now resides there because people didn't like black folks. It was the reason they clung together, and they haven't really changed.

That manifested and came home to roost within the GOP when Obama was elected, and the GOP and the right became RABID for the last four years. When you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas. The GOP has fleas right now, and yelling at the person pointing to them wont make the fleas go away.

Now here's the deal.

Good politics isn't about following the herd and pouting when the group disagrees with you. Thats what voters do. Politicians fight for their ideals in america. We are a republic. Our government is representative. Referendum votes were intentionally skipped, and they did that because of ideas that went as far back as the mayflower pact.

The american democracy is built to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. You want to know how they leveled the field? Freedom of speech. You can talk just as loudly as the other guy, and when your arguments are convincing to people, you win the debate.

When your arguments are always about the personalities involved, people perceive a shrill operator, and they roll their eyes and mentally click the ignore button.

everytime you have one of these "its not fair" meltdowns, you make your point unseemly to the reader. For wahtever reason, be it style of writing or method of approach, I promise you, the content of your idea is not why people reject your opinions.

it's the way you present yourself when you express them. You vaccilate so wildly that no one even dares support you, cause when someone is stomping up and down in a pile of crap, people back away so nuttin gets splashed on THEM.

Serve yourself and your ideas more effectively. Aim at the Idea and do it with that Reagan eye twinkle.

THEN you will get the centrists here, most of whom you have alienated, to take your ideas and your points seriously. Find your passion, and get rid of the anger and fear. People smell that, and to them it wreaks of a desperate man.

You're going to take another shot at me personally for posting this, but it won't change the fact that when you do people will be repulsed by the way you acted and ignore the content of what you are trying to convey.

Your opponents know that. Is it baiting? no. Its knowing where your weakness is and getting you to assist them. When you go balls to the walls victim, people know that they landed a punch on you and that you felt it. Politicians cannot have a glass chin.

It's why you have lost the argument in this thread and so many others as you alienated virtually everyone, even the guys in charge that could have assisted you. That is why your ideas and why Romney is so unpopular.

Do us and yourself a favor. Dump the victim crap, and the 85 crap, and all the rest. Find a way to prove the person wrong with facts, presented with passion.

What you're doing now? It's not working for you. It's harming more than helping your cause.

Thank you megatons for stating rationally what I haven't been able to say out of sheer frustration with the whining and the snide lines -- he claims he's snarky, but rarely is he up to that level. My frustration is high because when I was first on the board, Chance was one of the ones who could make a rational post against then-general Alfie, with a sting to it but no whining. That Chance would be making Giancarlo and Cowboy Bob and others look shallow not by slinging slime but by pointing to their actual content -- or pointing out that it was zero. I miss that Chance.

The current version (2.0?) is a great argument for being a Democrat, because he displays the self-righteousness of Republicans with the simultaneous victim pose, a contradiction that is revolting.

 

[rareboy]

Who made you the arbiter of public discourse. You are NOT the conscience of this place. Your leaps at times just don't make sense. Instead of annhialating someone on the substance, you run in, cry foul, insult people, yell about how badly you have been treated, run away.

And you know what?

Its a year later and it's like it was just yersterday I had read your posts. It's all the same stuff. You pull a nutty, and throw a tantrum if something is being discussed that you don't want discussed OR that you think you can't win.

You operate under the strange illusion that to be correct, you need to gain the most people to agree with you. That ain't it. yelling the loudest does not make the room listen.

John Fitzgerald Kennedy took a stand against his own party, the dems, who were engaged in "separate but equal" legislation.

Kennedy is considered great not because he fought and beat the other side. His greatness was in challenging his own party, and dramatically shifting the party composition. All the Dixiecrats went over to the GOP side, and the southern strategy was born less than a decade later. The root of GOP strength now resides there because people didn't like black folks. It was the reason they clung together, and they haven't really changed.

That manifested and came home to roost within the GOP when Obama was elected, and the GOP and the right became RABID for the last four years. When you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas. The GOP has fleas right now, and yelling at the person pointing to them wont make the fleas go away.

Now here's the deal.

Good politics isn't about following the herd and pouting when the group disagrees with you. Thats what voters do. Politicians fight for their ideals in america. We are a republic. Our government is representative. Referendum votes were intentionally skipped, and they did that because of ideas that went as far back as the mayflower pact.

The american democracy is built to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. You want to know how they leveled the field? Freedom of speech. You can talk just as loudly as the other guy, and when your arguments are convincing to people, you win the debate.

When your arguments are always about the personalities involved, people perceive a shrill operator, and they roll their eyes and mentally click the ignore button.

everytime you have one of these "its not fair" meltdowns, you make your point unseemly to the reader. For wahtever reason, be it style of writing or method of approach, I promise you, the content of your idea is not why people reject your opinions.

it's the way you present yourself when you express them. You vaccilate so wildly that no one even dares support you, cause when someone is stomping up and down in a pile of crap, people back away so nuttin gets splashed on THEM.

Serve yourself and your ideas more effectively. Aim at the Idea and do it with that Reagan eye twinkle.

THEN you will get the centrists here, most of whom you have alienated, to take your ideas and your points seriously. Find your passion, and get rid of the anger and fear. People smell that, and to them it wreaks of a desperate man.

You're going to take another shot at me personally for posting this, but it won't change the fact that when you do people will be repulsed by the way you acted and ignore the content of what you are trying to convey.

Your opponents know that. Is it baiting? no. Its knowing where your weakness is and getting you to assist them. When you go balls to the walls victim, people know that they landed a punch on you and that you felt it. Politicians cannot have a glass chin.

It's why you have lost the argument in this thread and so many others as you alienated virtually everyone, even the guys in charge that could have assisted you. That is why your ideas and why Romney is so unpopular.

Do us and yourself a favor. Dump the victim crap, and the 85 crap, and all the rest. Find a way to prove the person wrong with facts, presented with passion.

What you're doing now? It's not working for you. It's harming more than helping your cause.

Beautifully stated.

 

[chance1]

A wise old sage once said:



Oh wait... that was you...

The ironic thing is that if you look back at the series of posts directly preceding your "this thread is mean" post, there is a lot of substantive fact there (with admittedly some choice words thrown in for effect). And, if it isn't substantive in your opinion, at least we gave plenty of ammunition for any dissenters to combat and point out how we're wrong... yet, rather than doing so, they instead played the victim card (like a certain presidential candidate to be left unnamed).

Out of curiousity, do you happen to agree with Benvolio's assertion? I noticed nowhere did you actually "endorse" his position... Or, were you merely "sticking up for the little guy" who was being "bullied" relentlessly?

And, finally, I can only speak for myself on this, but I, if you recall, was more than willing to admit both sides were playing dirty. But then I was supposed to sit back when someone claimed (with the most faulty and easily disproved logic EVER) that Democrats were the root of all evil in modern day political discourse?

it doesn't matter if i agree with Ben - that's not the issue - for you and others it's all or nothing - he feels immigration is a major problem - he then gets attacked that it's a racial/ethnic thing - you (not you) call him a racist, etc.

the issue is this thread is specifically designed to attack a group or one person under the guise of civility

the issue is that the moderators are frauds along with the author of the thread in enabling such a display

it's that simple - most things are not that simple - but this is

I find it laughable that a group - a large group - gets so incited by a handful at most - a single person perhaps - for having views that don't jive with theirs

the playbook is a sheet of paper - demonize, insult, try to marginalize - then repeat

what's the point of this thread?

you're a reasonable person - that's obvious - and I appreciate your posting a great deal