CNN: Jill Stein reaches 7% Nationally

[Kulindahr]

Absolutely … N O !

Why?

There's nothing sacred about elections; the idea is to maintain liberty. Having senators beholden to the special interests who finance them is not in the interest of liberty.

 

[Kulindahr]

It says that they are more concerned about not letting a sociopath get control over the Supreme Court than they are about behaving like 14 year old children with a grab bag of emotions.

One delegate to the original constitutional convention said that the moment party politics comes to rule the appointment process, the courts will become tools of factionalism. He was right: neither party wants an impartial justice to replace Scalia, both want ideologues.

 

[Kulindahr]

And what exactly will they have to offer on that debate stage? Who the fuck are those people and what have their parties done? Posturing, grandstanding, populism and pointing out problems is easy. When the Libertarian and Green parties are bigger than ONE person and they have produced viable politicians in ALL BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, but especially local, THEN I would be interested in what they have to say. Until then, all they are doing is being pompous once every four years. We've played this game for longer than most of us have been alive, and nothing has ever been achieved through it, yet strangely no serious coordinated effort to put forth local representatives has ever been made.

There are a lot of Libertarians in office across the country. The reason there aren't more is that the Big Two cooperate as one to make it difficult for others to even get on the ballot, and then harp on the mantra that voting for anyone but them is a wasted vote.

 

[MystikWizard]

Oh please, Sugarpie, you seem to think you are the spokesperson/s (the jury is out) for someone, YOU are not a progressive, YOU are the one with the misogyny and the anti immigrant right wing whackitude. NO ONE else, just YOU.

I love how anyone who is "anti-Hillary" is a misogynist in your book. Again, it is unfortunately the other way around and I think you have some real feminist issues you need to work out.

I am thinking my vote is going to go to Jill Stein as of now, so feel free to keep those "misogynist" charges coming as that will look rather suspicious given those of us who do not trust Hillary and indicate we are looking at casting our votes for Stein.

Also glad to see the Feminist Wing of the Democratic Party, consisting of Women and Gay Men who are so fascinated by gender, give us a Moderate-Right Wing ticket this year in what is supposed to be the Progressive Party. Will be thrilling to see any regulation of Wall Street under a Clinton/Tim Kaine ticket as well as both candidates voice approval for TPP.

 

[Kabluey]

I love how anyone who is "anti-Hillary" is a misogynist in your book. Again, it is unfortunately the other way around and I think you have some real feminist issues you need to work out.

I am thinking my vote is going to go to Jill Stein as of now, so feel free to keep those "misogynist" charges coming as that will look rather suspicious given those of us who do not trust Hillary and indicate we are looking at casting our votes for Stein.

Also glad to see the Feminist Wing of the Democratic Party, consisting of Women and Gay Men who are so fascinated by gender, give us a Moderate-Right Wing ticket this year in what is supposed to be the Progressive Party. Will be thrilling to see any regulation of Wall Street under a Clinton/Tim Kaine ticket as well as both candidates voice approval for TPP.

Clinton has criticised the final TPP agreement as unsuitable. And her voting record on social issues indicates she's more liberal than conservative.

By all means vote for Stein and do nothing for four more years except complain about Trump. Or vote for a president who is more likely to hear your views and then support the groups who are lobbying the government to effect the changes you want made.

 

[TX-Beau]

I love how anyone who is "anti-Hillary" is a misogynist in your book. Again, it is unfortunately the other way around and I think you have some real feminist issues you need to work out.

I am thinking my vote is going to go to Jill Stein as of now, so feel free to keep those "misogynist" charges coming as that will look rather suspicious given those of us who do not trust Hillary and indicate we are looking at casting our votes for Stein.

Also glad to see the Feminist Wing of the Democratic Party, consisting of Women and Gay Men who are so fascinated by gender, give us a Moderate-Right Wing ticket this year in what is supposed to be the Progressive Party. Will be thrilling to see any regulation of Wall Street under a Clinton/Tim Kaine ticket as well as both candidates voice approval for TPP.

Oh brother - here come those tired old tits...

Just so you know, evenrick has been quite eloquent on the subject, interesting that you keep trying to extrapolate my quite specific criticisms of the TWO OF YOU, into some kind of general condemnation of everyone for your personal sins, no, it's not EVERYONE, it's JUST YOU, and him.

You keep harping on twat - despite pages of people telling you you are projecting, he's said some very nasty things about women. Such is life.

Cheers!

 

[MystikWizard]

Clinton has criticised the final TPP agreement as unsuitable. And her voting record on social issues indicates she's more liberal than conservative.

By all means vote for Stein and do nothing for four more years except complain about Trump. Or vote for a president who is more likely to hear your views and then support the groups who are lobbying the government to effect the changes you want made.

Hillary was for TPP before she was against it. Yet one more instance of her "evolving" on an issue. I honestly have never seen any candidate get so many free passes from changing positions on issues, than Hillary Clinton. She will always be the exception to the rule.

As far as Stein goes, it will be interesting to see if enough Sanders supporters siphon off to tip the scales in the swing states, where Hillary is already on very shaky grounds right now. I know they are not going to be happy with the choice of Tim Kaine, which the pick of Kaine is "be progressive in name only". Tim Kaine is a supporter of TPP and like Hillary, is also very friendly to the banking industry, feeling they should be exempt from consumer protection standards.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/polit...-into-tim-kaine-for-1469194188-htmlstory.html

What this boils down to is "say what it takes to get nominated" as the Democratic nominee, then show your real colors in the General Election.

If Trump does become nominated, this will be on folks like you, as Democrats had their chance to vote for Bernie Sanders and put someone honest and trustworthy as the nominee, but absolutely blew it because they were more concerned with being fascinated having a female nominated to serve as a symbol, regardless of being regarded as "not honest and trustworthy" by opinion polls by and large.

 

[rareboy]

Hillary was for TPP before she was against it. Yet one more instance of her "evolving" on an issue. I honestly have never seen any candidate get so many free passes from changing positions on issues, than Hillary Clinton. She will always be the exception to the rule.

As far as Stein goes, it will be interesting to see if enough Sanders supporters siphon off to tip the scales in the swing states, where Hillary is already on very shaky grounds right now. I know they are not going to be happy with the choice of Tim Kaine, which the pick of Kaine is "be progressive in name only". Tim Kaine is a supporter of TPP and like Hillary, is also very friendly to the banking industry, feeling they should be exempt from consumer protection standards.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/polit...-into-tim-kaine-for-1469194188-htmlstory.html

What this boils down to is "say what it takes to get nominated" as the Democratic nominee, then show your real colors in the General Election.

If Trump does become nominated, this will be on folks like you, as Democrats had their chance to vote for Bernie Sanders and put someone honest and trustworthy as the nominee, but absolutely blew it because they were more concerned with being fascinated having a female nominated to serve as a symbol, regardless of being regarded as "not honest and trustworthy" by opinion polls by and large.

You haven't been paying attention.

And no, it isn't on the people who support Hillary.

 

[MystikWizard]

You haven't been paying attention.

And no, it isn't on the people who support Hillary.

Yes, it really is. Because what you are saying is that you feel your vote and opinions matter more than our votes. There is no reason I should have to compromise my beliefs and tolerate a crooked system, which was just posted from WikiLeaks showing hacked emails from the DNC in which Debbie Wasserman-Schultz attempted to fix the media that was providing anti-Hillary coverage and discussing collusion between the DNC and the Clinton campaigns.

This is extremely disturbing that anyone would think this type of thing is acceptable and that Freedom of the Press doesn't matter. Something tells me we would have a fit when the Bush Administration did this with the Media, but I am sure it is A okay to the Clinton supporters.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/hacked-emails-reveal-dnc-sought-take-down-sanders?fb=ov

As long as you support and tolerate a crooked system, you keep the machine going and nothing changes. I see a repeat of Ralph Nader on the way.

 

[rareboy]

And if Bernie had been the candidate that most people voted for, he would have lost to Donald Trump.

Look.

No one is doubting the sincerity and the passion of support for Sanders. I have said a number of times that he is the perfect candidate for Canadians because he is so much like us and is promoting so many Canadian ideals. I even stopped in at his offices in Burlington to wish the campaign well and cheer him on.

He has conveyed an important message.

But I'm also no dewy eyed optimist or emotional voter who falls into the great American trap of having to hate one team if you support another. I am a strategic voter and recognize that when you are faced with a real enemy, that you have to look at how to defeat them...not satisfy some petty and immature need to have exactly what I want or nothing at all.

So tearing Hillary down because you wanted Bernie isn't teaching anyone a lesson. It isn't accomplishing anything except building up Trump and the GOP.

It is too bad that the US system is so limited as to allow only two parties. But that is the mess you've all made of it and you are stuck with it.

And if you can look at what could happen to the Supreme Court and then still feel morally superior in casting a protest ballot...then more power to you.

But maybe just have some respect for the people who see the world as more complex and nuanced than you and stop trying to trash them because they are supporting a candidate they believe would do the best job as president as well.

 

[Rolyo85]

And if Bernie had been the candidate that most people voted for, he would have lost to Donald Trump. Look. No one is doubting the sincerity and the passion of support for Sanders. I have said a number of times that he is the perfect candidate for Canadians because he is so much like us and is promoting so many Canadian ideals. I even stopped in at his offices in Burlington to wish the campaign well and cheer him on. He has conveyed an important message. But I'm also no dewy eyed optimist or emotional voter who falls into the great American trap of having to hate one team if you support another. I am a strategic voter and recognize that when you are faced with a real enemy, that you have to look at how to defeat them...not satisfy some petty and immature need to have exactly what I want or nothing at all. So tearing Hillary down because you wanted Bernie isn't teaching anyone a lesson. It isn't accomplishing anything except building up Trump and the GOP. It is too bad that the US system is so limited as to allow only two parties. But that is the mess you've all made of it and you are stuck with it. And if you can look at what could happen to the Supreme Court and then still feel morally superior in casting a protest ballot...then more power to you. But maybe just have some respect for the people who see the world as more complex and nuanced than you and stop trying to trash them because they are supporting a candidate they believe would do the best job as president as well.

Quoted for reason

 

[MystikWizard]

And if Bernie had been the candidate that most people voted for, he would have lost to Donald Trump.

That is absolutely untrue, as Bernie consistently polled higher in General Election matchups against Trump than Hillary Clinton did. I guess it is hard for Hillary supporters to accept that outside of your bubble, people do not trust Hillary Clinton which is why she polls extremely low on the honest and trustworthy scale. If you, or I should say those that support Hillary and can vote in our election, don't want to accept the videos and quotes I posted as examples of why the rest of the U.S. doesn't trust her, then so be it, but they do so at their own peril.

But I'm also no dewy eyed optimist or emotional voter who falls into the great American trap of having to hate one team if you support another. I am a strategic voter and recognize that when you are faced with a real enemy, that you have to look at how to defeat them...not satisfy some petty and immature need to have exactly what I want or nothing at all.

It has nothing to do with emotion, but rather principle. Because if you don't show principle once in a while and you keep tolerating what we saw out of the DNC and the Hillary camp this Primary cycle, things will never change and you continue to support the status quo. Sometimes, a stern message has to be sent and the DNC has pissed off a major portion of the Democratic voters with what transpired. What Debbie Wasserman-Schultz did was unethical and she should be removed from her position. She does not belong as the head of the DNC.

So tearing Hillary down because you wanted Bernie isn't teaching anyone a lesson. It isn't accomplishing anything except building up Trump and the GOP.

And that may be the case in the short term. I would rather look more to the long term. If he gets elected, he isn't going to be in office more than 1 term. I can survive one term of Trump. But it will have a profound impact on the DNC that strong-arming the media to ensure positive coverage for the Clinton campaign and negative coverage of the Sanders campaign, performing backroom deals with Harry Reid in Nevada, scheduling debates during Friday and Saturday nights to limit exposure of any other candidate other than Hillary, and initiating a strategy to attack Sanders on being an atheist is not going to be tolerated.

It is too bad that the US system is so limited as to allow only two parties. But that is the mess you've all made of it and you are stuck with it.

Unless you bite the bullet as is being looked at here by enough Sanders supporters and anti Trump supporters between Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.

And if you can look at what could happen to the Supreme Court and then still feel morally superior in casting a protest ballot...then more power to you.

I can. And I have faith that some judges would be willing to hold out until the end of Trump's first term to limit the damage.

But maybe just have some respect for the people who see the world as more complex and nuanced than you and stop trying to trash them because they are supporting a candidate they believe would do the best job as president as well.

You could argue that the only reason those folks would think that is because of the tactics of the DNC this cycle with the media and limiting Sander's coverage. It is a shame that voters who are uninformed do vote, and sadly that is mostly older voters who constantly rely on what the television tells them. I am so glad to see that generation moving on and a younger generation coming in that uses the internet and are more free thinkers. We aren't quite there yet where they are in the majority with the Gen X'ers like myself, but we are getting near the tipping point like we saw with the amount of support Sanders had despite everything the DNC threw at him.

But we will see as Hillary and Trump are dangerously close in the swing states and as media outlets have said, the undecideds will be the ones deciding this election.

So speaking of respect, maybe pragmatists can have respect for those who are not willing to keep moving the line in what we are willing to tolerate and feel it is time to take a stand and send a message to the DNC this time; essentially making an investment for future elections so they see what people are willing to and what others are not willing to tolerate and what future outcomes of elections may be if those types of tactics continue.

 

[TX-Beau]

...So speaking of respect, maybe pragmatists can have respect for those who are not willing to keep moving the line in what we are willing to tolerate and feel it is time to take a stand and send a message to the DNC this time; essentially making an investment for future elections so they see what people are willing to and what others are not willing to tolerate and what future outcomes of elections may be if those types of tactics continue.

Take a stand? Send a message?

You know what I see, I see you making excuses to hate Hillary.

The far left has never been a majority of the Democratic party. NEVER. The far left does not get to drive policy from it's minority position. That is what is eating the 'Pubs alive, this argument that extreme wings of the party must force purity votes on the center.

The Center of the Democratic party isn't buying your message and could give a fuck about your stand. THAT is reality, that is why Bernie lost, that is why voting for Stein is an exercise in pointlessness.

You want to actually make a change? START at home with whomever represents you at the lowest level of government.

Voting for Stein is neither a message or a stand, it's just posturing.

 

[Rolyo85]

Yep. Years and years of a "message" that nobody hears. If this message had a point, it would have yielded a result... Ever.

 

[MystikWizard]

I think the message would be to the pragmatists within the Democratic Party who support corrupt politicians and corrupt party officials and those who abandon whatever principles they have and instead opt to support candidates who lie, take money from corporations, who are Pro War and Pro Nation Building (no different than George Bush) and who attempt to silence the Media into covering the campaigns the way they want it to ...

That this is a message if the Democrats lose the election because of who was nominated and what the Democratic Leadership did to Sanders this Primary season, then you run the risk of keep losing elections as long as you push corrupt candidates and support corrupt Party leadership.

So if you want another Ralph Nader, please keep it up. Hillary is already on very dangerous ground in swing states as it is, and 20% of the total electorate is Undecided because they don't support either of the major candidates.

 

[TX-Beau]

I think the message would be to the pragmatists within the Democratic Party who support corrupt politicians and corrupt party officials and those who abandon whatever principles they have and instead opt to support candidates who lie, take money from corporations, who are Pro War and Pro Nation Building (no different than George Bush) and who attempt to silence the Media into covering the campaigns the way they want it to ...

That this is a message if the Democrats lose the election because of who was nominated and what the Democratic Leadership did to Sanders this Primary season, then you run the risk of keep losing elections as long as you push corrupt candidates and support corrupt Party leadership.

So if you want another Ralph Nader, please keep it up. Hillary is already on very dangerous ground in swing state as it is, and 20% of the total electorate is Undecided because they don't support either of the major candidates.

Blah blah blah, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE THINKING!!

You are trying to sow some other website and convince us to vote for your EVIL OVERLORD THE SUPREME ORANGUTAN!!

 

[MystikWizard]

Blah blah blah, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE THINKING!!

You are trying to sow some other website and convince us to vote for your EVIL OVERLORD THE SUPREME ORANGUTAN!!

See you in November.

 

[TX-Beau]

See you in November.

GASP!!! Tell me Cleo, where will I be in November? I'm all ears!

 

[evanrick]

And apparently your solution is to vote against the mainstream liberal party, handing electoral victory to one of the most extreme conservative candidates in a lifetime.

You're either misguided in believing that, or misguided in thinking anyone believes your proclaimed allegiance. Either way, you're doing great things for Clinton.

but you only see elections as binary choices? interesting yet cowardly rationale for attacking progressive ideas.

 

[evanrick]

Take a stand? Send a message?

You know what I see, I see you making excuses to hate Hillary.

The far left has never been a majority of the Democratic party. NEVER. The far left does not get to drive policy from it's minority position. That is what is eating the 'Pubs alive, this argument that extreme wings of the party must force purity votes on the center.

The Center of the Democratic party isn't buying your message and could give a fuck about your stand. THAT is reality, that is why Bernie lost, that is why voting for Stein is an exercise in pointlessness.

You want to actually make a change? START at home with whomever represents you at the lowest level of government.

Voting for Stein is neither a message or a stand, it's just posturing.

incredibly amateur analysis of the situation. the republicans control 2.5 branches of government, but somehow listening to the "extremists" within the republican party, the "True believers" is somehow NOT responsible for republicans electoral success? debating these issues with democrats, conservatives, liberals and republicans on here for 12 years now and you may learn a thing or two.

you have failed to convince me of anything sir.