Convince me to vote for either two candidates

[jackoroe]

Sorry, I'm not ashamed.

I make my own decisions on everything. It's not like I'm going to be telling everyone who I voted for.

And controlling emotions seems to be the only thing we need right now because both sides seem to be too emotional. I'm not indifferent, I just don't fall too easily to both sides of the same Conservative coin.

You have no reason to be ashamed, ZhuRong. What I find shameful, is how some members have treated a young member who starts a thread looking for some helpful advice. What he's been given instead, is a ration of abuse and scorn. We encourage intelligent thoughtful discourse, on CE&P. Your question was legitimate.

I'd suggest that you seem to be on the right track, as evidenced by your siggie. They both suck! I like Libertarians. They stand for self ownership. Lower taxes, limited government and no government interference in our personal lives. The best of all possible worlds. Check them out!

 

[MCsNo1Fn]

What I find shameful, is that he's posting a thread for people to tell him who to vote for and why, when he should be researching and deciding for himself. His question, in my opinion, was not legitimate. Why should anyone have to convince him? Is he too stupid to think for himself?

 

[jackoroe]

^I don't think he's stupid. He's asking those that support either of the two major candidates, to make a convincing argument why he should vote for them. He's apparently not loving either, based on his siggie.

 

[MystikWizard]

^I don't think he's stupid. He's asking those that support either of the two major candidates, to make a convincing argument why he should vote for them. He's apparently not loving either, based on his siggie.

And why should anyone do that to influence his opinion?

He should be strong enough to do his own research and formulate his own opinion, without anyone else's influence.

That's like asking the Television who I should be voting for, because I am incapable of formulating opinions about Issues on my own.

It's ridiculous.

Do you not have political views?

 

[MCsNo1Fn]

^I don't think he's stupid.

Just for the record, my intent wasn't to label him stupid, it was meant rhetorically.

 

[Lostlover]

What I find shameful, is that he's posting a thread for people to tell him who to vote for and why, when he should be researching and deciding for himself. His question, in my opinion, was not legitimate. Why should anyone have to convince him? Is he too stupid to think for himself?

For once we agree!

I think I wasn't too nice to him but he got my point.

Zhurong, I didn't mean to be an ass, but man come on! This is politics. You need to make this decision on your own. OWN.

 

[construct]

I suppose the reason I (and I assume some of the others) are a bit impatient with ZhuRong is that there are a number of similar threads that have been posted from time to time over the course of this long campaign. This one coming just over a week before election day indicates to some here (including me) a certain lack of seriousness when there are plenty of such threads archived.

Besides, jackoroe's endorsement of the unnamed Libertarian candidate (Bob Barr) is clearly off-topic.

I would recommend Obama since he is closer to the Socialists than McCain, and he's more likely to win if he picks up ZhuRong's vote in Florida. The chances of Brian Moore's winning in any state are nil.

 

[Kulindahr]

This thread is just like that guy never comes to class taking a peak at your test because he didn't study. You want to tell him "go to hell and do your own test".

That's an absolutely moronic response to his request.

If you cannot make up your own mind on who to vote for, then don't fucking vote. If you don't take the time to research both candidates and make an intelligent decision, then don't vote.
Until I read up on both candidates, I looked like a complete moron coming in here and trying to defend someone I wasn't so sure about in the first place. I took what other people told me, and formed my opinion based on that. And why I still question some things on the Obama side, I chose to vote for him. You cannot rely on someone else to base an opinion for you. What would be the point in voting as a free American in that case? Because it's not based on YOUR views, your opinions, etc.

Just where is he supposed to research that isn't "relying on someone else" for making a decision? Is he supposed to track down the candidates one at a time and somehow get to see them and conduct interviews?
You and others here are making some unwarranted negative assumptions, and as a result are being condescending and insulting.

What I find shameful, is that he's posting a thread for people to tell him who to vote for and why, when he should be researching and deciding for himself. His question, in my opinion, was not legitimate. Why should anyone have to convince him? Is he too stupid to think for himself?

See above, about assumptions.

^I don't think he's stupid. He's asking those that support either of the two major candidates, to make a convincing argument why he should vote for them. He's apparently not loving either, based on his siggie.

That's the first rational response I've seen about his question. It doesn't make assumptions about what he has or hasn't done already, and doesn't leverage those assumptions into insults; instead, it treats him with respect.

Asking others for reasons to vote for or against a candidate is not a bad thing. It may in fact be an indication of respect for (at least some of) those asked for input. It may mean that exhaustive research has been done, but that the person making the request feels there's just something missing, but he's not catching what it is. It could mean quite a number of things--

and those of you who automatically assumed it meant something derogatory should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[Lostlover]

I suppose the reason I (and I assume some of the others) are a bit impatient with ZhuRong is that there are a number of similar threads that have been posted from time to time over the course of this long campaign. This one coming just over a week before election day indicates to some here (including me) a certain lack of seriousness when there are plenty of such threads archived.

Besides, jackoroe's endorsement of the unnamed Libertarian candidate (Bob Barr) is clearly off-topic.

I would recommend Obama since he is closer to the Socialists than McCain, and he's more likely to win if he picks up ZhuRong's vote in Florida. The chances of Brian Moore's winning in any state are nil.

I did a poster history check on ZhuRong. He was "leaning" towards Hillary earlier.

He was paying attention. He's just choosing to not be mature by picking a candidate that suits his views best.

Hillary was good enough. But Obama isn't.

I wonder what Hillary has that Obama doesn't. Oh wait, I know...

 

[jetsonboy]

Anybody who allows Elisabeth Hasselbeck and Para Salin to give speeches together on their behalf should NOT be elected President of the United States!

 

[MystikWizard]

She was more aggressive than Obama against Republicans and this was before I started to lean to the very far left.

Oh, so you expect us to believe that you vote for someone on the basis that they would be "more aggressive against Republicans"?

Policies don't matter much to you, do they?

Obama's strategy has been to portray calm and stability in every-uncertain times. Quite frankly, even in appearance ... he appears much more Presidential than John McCain, who comes across as old, tired, and ready for this campaign to be over with.

Obama getting angry out on the trail, would have resulted in Republicans painting him as the "Angry, Black Man", like Jesse Jackson.

And besides, Obama's strategy seems to be working. He is very far ahead right now, is he not?

I have to agree with Lost. Hillary has something that Obama doesn't have, which attracted you as a Gay Man/voter. It begins with a "V" and ends with an "A".

Why not do what the rest of the country is doing and make your choice about political beliefs you believe in? Just a suggestion.

 

[MystikWizard]

If I may ask, having not been around here for the primaries: what gives with this open animosity between Obama supporters and Clinton's? There are posters on this forum, one in particular, for whom I had the highest possible regard, whose judgment was sound and temperament brimming with sanguinity. Those qualities, rare under normal circumstances, have seemingly evaporated in these.

Not to open old wounds (that clearly haven't healed), but everyone I know has moved on from the hotly contested primary season. I wish Al Gore had run and won, I wish Edwards had won, I wish Clinton had won, but they didn't. I'm fucking perfectly thrilled that The One (That One) won.

Gentlemen, if you please, we are Democrats, after all, we need to set an example for the heathens and reprobates.

General, I do concur with what you are saying, however I think most of us would like to be on the same page ... however certain posters will simply not move on, like what you have done ... to allow for Unity. They instead to prefer keeping up the divisiveness. Hell, we should all be thrilled that the Democrats will have a victory this election and see Democratic policies enforced ... yet the bitterness still remains.

What can be done with people who simply will not let go? (cough Nick Cole cough)

 

[Lostlover]

If I may ask, having not been around here for the primaries: what gives with this open animosity between Obama supporters and Clinton's? There are posters on this forum, one in particular, for whom I had the highest possible regard, whose judgment was sound and temperament brimming with sanguinity. Those qualities, rare under normal circumstances, have seemingly evaporated in these.

Not to open old wounds (that clearly haven't healed), but everyone I know has moved on from the hotly contested primary season. I wish Al Gore had run and won, I wish Edwards had won, I wish Clinton had won, but they didn't. I'm fucking perfectly thrilled that The One (That One) won.

Gentlemen, if you please, we are Democrats, after all, we need to set an example for the heathens and reprobates.

You missed a lot. Let me just say that.

You're mature enough to not be a spiteful bitch and vote for the other party because Hillary didn't get the nomination. Most Hillary supporters have moved on like adults.

It's those few though...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE13Zb0ejco[/ame]

 

[construct]

General, I do concur with what you are saying, however I think most of us would like to be on the same page ... however certain posters will simply not move on, like what you have done ... to allow for Unity. They instead to prefer keeping up the divisiveness. Hell, we should all be thrilled that the Democrats will have a victory this election and see Democratic policies enforced ... yet the bitterness still remains.

What can be done with people who simply will not let go? (cough Nick Cole cough)

I concur. And I offer a separate opinion.

Nick Cole is not the only one, but I shall not name any other names.

Some Obama supporters seem unable to let go the notion that this persistent devotion to a primary rival is based on gender--a notion I do not share. I have told them on occasion to knock off the sexist talk, and I take this opportunity to do so again.

Generally though, everything Midnight has said in this quoted post is completely correct.

 

[Kulindahr]

^I agree Gcs. The OP didn't ask to be informed, he didn't ask for voting records, he's treating his right to vote like some sort of game show.

Find me a game show that depends on logical and non-emotional arguments, and maybe you'll have a leg to stand on here.

 

[Kulindahr]

If I may ask, having not been around here for the primaries: what gives with this open animosity between Obama supporters and Clinton's? There are posters on this forum, one in particular, for whom I had the highest possible regard, whose judgment was sound and temperament brimming with sanguinity. Those qualities, rare under normal circumstances, have seemingly evaporated in these.

Not to open old wounds (that clearly haven't healed), but everyone I know has moved on from the hotly contested primary season. I wish Al Gore had run and won, I wish Edwards had won, I wish Clinton had won, but they didn't. I'm fucking perfectly thrilled that The One (That One) won.

Gentlemen, if you please, we are Democrats, after all, we need to set an example for the heathens and reprobates.

I'm terribly upset that Obama won, actually. The only thing that makes it palatable is that Clinton lost.

 

[iman]

Hillary was good enough. But Obama isn't.

I wonder what Hillary has that Obama doesn't. Oh wait, I know...

You refer, I presume, to a Pair of Balls. She also had the capacity to wipe the Republicans off the map.
sh
Of course, if one votes primarily out of a gay crush on a candidate, Hillary would not be acceptable; would she?

 

[iman]

: I do not vote for a candidate in the general election -- I do not vote for Obama or McCain -- I vote for the Democratic Party's nominee. This is a fundament of party politics, it is essential to the advancement of our political and social goals, hopes and dreams. Don't think so? Ask any Republican -- they'll tell you the exact thing, if they aren't lying just for the fun of it.

And I add one last thing: the worst of the tension and conflict isn't over on election night. After all, guess what's next? Governing. We have to govern wisely, deliberately. And we have no room, no margin, no time, no spare draft for error or miscalculation -- we have to hit the ground running and get things right. That's hard enough unified, it's impossible if divided.

Or maybe this lunacy, this bitchy, high-schoolgirlish behavior is just a JUB thing...

Exactly right. This is the kind of intelligence and rational posting that has become rare on JUB and will no doubt vanish as soon as the poster gets banned again. Six months?

 

[Kulindahr]

Kulindahr it is nice that you were not irritated or rubbed the wrong way by this thread.

I tend to look on the discussions as though they were university seminars. Everyone throws out opinions, guesses, theories, arguments, and it's none of it much to get upset about. So many people here seem to take so much of everything personally; that just amazes me.

Consistently obtuse stupidity gets to be annoying; so does consistently obtuse insult (and its cousins). Other than that, every post should be read as a sincere, honest statement or request.

 

[Kulindahr]

I always wish for bad weather on election day. The stupid and the lazy will usually stay in.

From what I've read, bad weather keeps the poor in more than anyone. I can believe that; when at OSU, we had one hell of a crappy election day one year, and about the only people who voted were those who had cars or could catch a ride.