Cordoba Mosque at 9/11 Ground Zero

[bankside]

To my knowledge there has been no stripper terrorist cell that is responsible for bringing down one of the U.S.'s most iconic landmarks.

I suppose you would be equally offended if they tried to build a Catholic church in Oklahoma?

After all Timothy McVeigh was raised catholic.

The government should ban catholic churches, and militia groups! Who knows what they could be getting up to in there?

 

[BostonPirate]

To my knowledge there has been no stripper terrorist cell that is responsible for bringing down one of the U.S.'s most iconic landmarks.

and to my knowledge there have been no stripper cells that have blown up a govt building.

DO we get rid of all military installations around the oklahoma bomb site because McVey was a member of the military at one point?

 

[bankside]

I mean I'm saying this as a seasoned atheist who would be delighted if all the mosques closed, and all the churches closed, and all the synagogues and temples closed, and all the televangelism went off the air, and all the fear, fraud, superstition, ignorance and epic drain on humanity that goes with it would come to an end.

But I think it would be completely creepy for a government to respond to mob pressure to somehow stop this from happening in a free property market - because that would not represent the replacement of what I dislike about organized religion with knowledge, it would just be substituting other kinds of nonsense.

 

[BostonPirate]

@ bankside

indeed. freedom of religion does not guarantee citizend freedom from religions.

I am a christian, but i tend to skip the services and do volunteer work for a church I like. I read spiritual books when I am inclined or feeling down, but not religious ones.

there is a big difference.

 

[BostonPirate]

It is a stretch, but Islam is not something to be taken lightly. I'm tired of this "religion of peace" nonsense.

ahhh

then you should first castigate catholicism for the crusades, the pogroms, the inquisitions, and the child molestation, before you focus on this religion.

 

[BostonPirate]

Why worry about the past? (re: all of the violence, the child molestation is a separate matter that I do find abhorrent)

I don't like Catholicism or any branch of Christianity, but I don't pretend that they're doing the world the same level of harm today that Islam is, with its awful fundamentalist sect that seems to be trying to turn the world into a giant, tyrannical theocracy.

That doesn't mean that I don't recognize the danger of Christianity. As much as I hate the way PC liberals are being do dismissive about the dangers of not extremism itself but the Muslim faith, I also can't stand it when western right-wingers try to claim that their own version of fundamentalism is so much better. Christian fundamentalists would set us back to the dark ages, something taken for granted by the better part of society.

i think you are ridiculously wrong, but I am not inclined to argue anymore on the point.

You will have to live with that generalization. Just remember that this kind of thing is what fuels much of the hatred going on in the teabagger movement.

are you a member of that group?

 

[Spiff]

I suppose you would be equally offended if they tried to build a Catholic church in Oklahoma?

I certainly would had the bombers of the OKC fed building bombed it in the name of Catholicism.

 

[BostonPirate]

I certainly would had the bombers of the OKC fed building bombed it in the name of Catholicism.

interesting

here is McVeigh's actual words from his manifesto.

I decided to send a message to a government that was becoming increasingly hostile, by bombing a government building and the government employees within that building who represent that government. Bombing the Murrah Federal Building was morally and strategically equivalent to the U.S. hitting a government building in Serbia, Iraq, or other nations

http://truthinourtime.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/timothy-mcveighs-manifesto/

 

[Spiff]

^^^^
I don't follow whatever leap you were trying to make. I don't see anything in what you posted that suggests Tim McV and along with many others in the Catholic church conspired to do the bombing of the OKC Fed building in the holy name of their church.

 

[BostonPirate]

^^^^
I don't follow whatever leap you were trying to make. I don't see anything in what you posted that suggests the Tim McV and along with many others in the Catholic church conspired to do the bombing of the OKC Fed building in the holy name of their church.

he related his actions to those taken by the usa against a theocracies.

look, I dont care if you are a bigot. Just be aware that you look like one when you post that stuff.

The muslims arent acomin to git us.

Blaming a religion for a political groups actions is kinda out there.

 

[Spiff]

he related his actions to those taken by the usa against a theocracies.

look, I dont care if you are a bigot. Just be aware that you look like one when you post that stuff.

The muslims arent acomin to git us.

Blaming a religion for a political groups actions is kinda out there.

Where the fuck are you getting these generalizations from? So I think that putting a mosque at (or right next to) Ground Zero is a bit insensitive, ok. And yet somehow you make the leap that I am a bigot and I think that all Muslims are coming to get us. Whatever. But you are incorrect in your generalization about me. I'm sure I am capable of hating a bunch more Catholics than a few Muslims. I look at the situation before I judge. I don't make one huge generalization and applying it to everything and everyone.

 

[BostonPirate]

Where the fuck are you getting these generalizations from? So I think that putting a mosque at (or right next to) Ground Zero is a bit insensitive, ok. And yet somehow you make the leap that I am a bigot and I think that all Muslims are coming to get us. Whatever. But you are incorrect in your generalization about me. I'm sure I am capable of hating a bunch more Catholics than a few Muslims. I look at the situation before I judge. I don't make one huge generalization and applying it to everything and everyone.

this sensitivity issue you have is quaint but it makes no sense.

lets move all churches away from schools since preists have been shown to have a habit of molesting children. Lets stop all catholics from teaching school. You never know if one of them thinks that a priests actions means he can so the same thing.

where does this "sensitivity" stop? it allows the government to get involved in things it has no business in.

Will a Deli run by Muslims also be insensitive? would a pizza delivery guy who is catholic be kept away from all homes that children reside in? Will a Deli run by Jews not be allowed near the water since they attacked that armada at sea?

I am tired of the gov't making power grabs in the name of various causes. the Freaks who attacked NYC were muslim. It is not a reason to have a knee jerk reaction to every muslim action in the area.

 

[BostonPirate]

Not doing this guys... one of my best friends, who is now dead, was a Muslim. I am not about to agree that he was a bad guy for his beliefs when I know he was not.

The guys that smacked those planes into the building are controlling what you think and what you believe. You are basing your ideas on their actions, just as they wanted you to.

in your cases, they have won over you

good luck with that.

I will go about my life in peace, not seeing a boogeyman around every corner that has a mosque on it.

 

[BostonPirate]

You're putting a lot of words in my mouth.

and you in theirs

Have you ever interacted with muslims? Have you ever studied their beliefs?

 

[Spiff]

Not doing this guys... one of my best friends, who is now dead, was a Muslim. I am not about to agree that he was a bad guy for his beliefs when I know he was not.

Nobody, at least not I, is saying that your friend was a bad guy. I just don't subscribe to this "you won't let me put my church anywhere I want, so you must be a bigot" mentality.

 

[BostonPirate]

Nobody, at least not I, is saying that your friend was a bad guy. I just don't subscribe to this "you won't let me put my church anywhere I want, so you must be a bigot" mentality.

in this free nation, what gives you or any other group with an opinion, the right to decide who can do what and where? this is precisely why religion is not supposed to be a consideration for these kinds of things?

You are telling someone what they can and can't do based on their religion. Principles are best tested under the hardest of times.

Some people blame Boston for the event since some of the planes came out of our airport.

are we not allowed on the hallowed ground of the area for that reason? where does it stop? just how much american values are we going to give up to the mosters who did this?

 

[Spiff]

in this free nation, what gives you or any other group with an opinion, the right to decide who can do what and where?

Lol, I admit I have never been to this utopia that is called Boston where everyone is apparently free to do whatever they want. But the right to decide who can do what and where has been established in our country ever since it became a democracy.

 

[BostonPirate]

Lol, I admit I have never been to this utopia that is called Boston where everyone is apparently free to do whatever they want. But the right to decide who can do what and where has been established in our country ever since it became a democracy.

our country is a republic, not a democracy. It was designed that way so that the majority could not take action against any minority directly.

You show me where a vote has been cast that the najority of americans even CARE about where the damned mosque is

 

[BostonPirate]

American freedoms are not dependant upon fear.

and on that note I am really really done with this thread.

 

[MercuryJones]

But the right to decide who can do what and where has been established in our country ever since it became a democracy.

And yet our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. Yes, even for Muslims.

I have no fondness for Islam, and no fondness for any other religion either. I have a great fondness, however, for freedom.