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Cordoba Mosque at 9/11 Ground Zero

For thirty years, this group has had a mosque six blocks from ground zero.

Now that they're outgrowing it, they want to move to a bigger place and found an empty warehouse that happens to be two blocks from ground zero.

What's the big deal?
 
For thirty years, this group has had a mosque six blocks from ground zero.

Now that they're outgrowing it, they want to move to a bigger place and found an empty warehouse that happens to be two blocks from ground zero.

What's the big deal?

That makes me wonder:

Will it even be visible from the new Trade Center? Will people visiting the memorial and such find it obviously present? If so, will it be 'obviously Muslim'?

If the answer to the first two questions is "no", then there's not the slightest grounds for complaint. If someone coming to visit GZ isn't going to find it glaringly obvious, this whole thing is baseless -- because if you have to look for it, how can it be offending anyone's sensibilities?
 
Let's not forget that the Ku Klux Klan (yes, they still exist) are devout Protestant Christians. Adolf Hitler himself was a Christian, and so are many of the Neo-Nazis that exist today. It has been primarily Christian Organizations that practice physical abuse and electroshock therapy in order to "cure" homosexuals.

If we hold Muslims responsible for the actions of an extreme sect of Islam, then Christians should be held responsible as well.
 
This is a couple blocks away from the tragic false flag event known as 9/11 and as far as I am concerned, this is still America and people have freedom to build wherever they want to build if they do it all legally. If they can be denied to build it then this also means that the government has a right to deny any of us the right to build as well.

I think this is being hyped to invoke a racial uprising; playing on the emotions of the people who are still unaware that 9/11 wasn't completely carried out by Muslim forces and in fact almost completely carried out by people inside our government who have power to carry through their agenda.

The Mosque should be allowed to be built based on the laws of the land, not denied by the apathy and ignorance of people with misplaced cultivated anger.

Why is it important to defend each others rights? Let's hear a voice from the past of a WWII survivor.

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

Martin Niemöller
 
That makes me wonder:

Will it even be visible from the new Trade Center? Will people visiting the memorial and such find it obviously present? If so, will it be 'obviously Muslim'?

No and No. As to the last question, I doubt it. It's not like there's going to be minarets on the building. Here is the satellite image of the area. As the "crow flies" it's 2 1/2 blocks. If you walk it, it's close to 1/2 mile away.

attachment.php
 
Let's not forget that the Ku Klux Klan (yes, they still exist) are devout Protestant Christians. Adolf Hitler himself was a Christian, and so are many of the Neo-Nazis that exist today. It has been primarily Christian Organizations that practice physical abuse and electroshock therapy in order to "cure" homosexuals.

If we hold Muslims responsible for the actions of an extreme sect of Islam, then Christians should be held responsible as well.

I know the Klan still exists -- they manage to keep the south of our county lily-white (except for Mexican laborers, which they see as appropriate for a 'lesser race').

And they say they're Christians, but... they ignore everything about mercy and compassion and love.

Which sorta says they're not Christians.
 
I know the Klan still exists -- they manage to keep the south of our county lily-white (except for Mexican laborers, which they see as appropriate for a 'lesser race').

And they say they're Christians, but... they ignore everything about mercy and compassion and love.

Which sorta says they're not Christians.

My Muslim friends say similar things about Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Muslims are very reluctant to say that another professed Muslim is not a real Muslim, because if you do that "one of you is not." They say that Al Qaeda aren't real Muslims. They're very sure of that.
 
No and No. As to the last question, I doubt it. It's not like there's going to be minarets on the building. Here is the satellite image of the area. As the "crow flies" it's 2 1/2 blocks. If you walk it, it's close to 1/2 mile away.

I just used google earth to take a look, and it looks like you'd have to be pretty high up to be able to see that building. I doubt any visitors coming in memory of loved ones are going to go up the new towers -- whenever they get finished.

So the whiners are just whining -- there's nothing about it that should impact anyone's 'sensitivities'. And if they want, they can always raise money and build a place to represent their faith.
 
My Muslim friends say similar things about Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Muslims are very reluctant to say that another professed Muslim is not a real Muslim, because if you do that "one of you is not." They say that Al Qaeda aren't real Muslims. They're very sure of that.

It occurs to me that Al Qaeda and their ilk could be compared to the Inquisition: a very nasty aberration.

Now picture the Inquisition with modern weapons....
 
So the whiners are just whining -- there's nothing about it that should impact anyone's 'sensitivities'. And if they want, they can always raise money and build a place to represent their faith.

Yup. No one in the debate complaining about this community center is apparently concerned with the building's owner selling their private property to another private entity, and the owner's rights to do what he wishes with the land. Also, unless one lives right there in the neighborhood, it's a local issue completely. Why should any of us that don't live in that neighborhood get a say in it in the first place?

Here's the current building on the "hallowed ground" FOX news whines over:
attachment.php



And the finished concept of the Muslim community center:

attachment.php
 
It occurs to me that Al Qaeda and their ilk could be compared to the Inquisition: a very nasty aberration.

Now picture the Inquisition with modern weapons....

Well, no analogy is perfect; that's the nature of analogies. Islam has no central authority as Christianity did for hundreds of years, and as the RCC does today. The Inquisition in the RCC, unlike Al Qaeda in Islam, was quite mainstream when created, and still is today (for Roman Catholics); a former Grand Inquisitor (hey, they changed the name to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, but it's the same organization) is now Pope.

Even if Sunni Islam had a Pope, it would not be Osama bin Laden.
 
the finished concept of the Muslim community center looks nice.
Whats wrong with that ?
 
From the viewpoint of his culture, it's a sensible thing to do.


I don't think it is a cultural value to deport people in the same way I don't think it's in Western European culture to do the same (despite mass expulsions of Jews and Muslims in the last few centuries).. I think it is a fascist outlook on life that goes beyond one's culture.
 
I feel I should offer my perspective here.

I was working in One World Trade Center at the time of the attacks. I escaped death by my decision that morning to come in at 10 (as I had as a contractor) rather than at 8:30 (as I had since becoming an employee). I worked on a floor right in the center of the hole where the first plane went in.

300 of my coworkers died that day, including several people who were friendly to me and whom I personally liked. Because phones were down and people were marooned far from home (the trains and tunnels were shut down for security reasons), it took a long time to verify the miraculous fact: none of the people really close to me had died, none of my old friends...only my new ones.

But that wasn't what broke me, and sent me into a deepening depression I still struggle with.

The response of my fellow Americans made me ashamed. They attacked their Muslim neighbors, and their non-Muslim Arab neighbors, and their Sikh neighbors (even though no Sikh had anything to do with the attacks, the turbans were enough).

Living where I do, I know a number of Muslims. On 9/11, the owner of a Middle Eastern restaurant here in Hoboken called a bunch of men from his mosque and rushed down to Ground Zero to volunteer. When they were told the place was overflowing with volunteers (as it was), they raised money instead. That restaurant proudly displays one of the American flags flown at Ground Zero during the rescue period.

Another of my friends is an Albanian Muslim, raised right here in New Jersey. He looks, acts, sounds, and IS exactly like any other young adult from New Jersey. (The exceptions are that he didn't get drunk on his 21st birthday - or ever - and fasts during Ramadan. His favorite fast-breaking food? A peanut butter and jelly sandwich.)

Because he's white, he's often been the "surprise" Muslim in his classes, and heard people say some phenomenally stupid things about Muslims and Islam. "Wait a minute! I'm a Muslim, and I'm not like that," he often has to say, and their response is often "You're not a Muslim." He's not a brown-skinned turban-wearing psychopath, you see, so he can't be a Muslim.

Let's compare some other terrorist attacks, hmm? Tim McVeigh has already been brought up; he was a white guy from Michigan, like me. Funny, I didn't get any hate stares on the street after the OKC bombing, which at the time was the worst terrorist attack on American soil. He was a Christian, but no one says that Christian churches should not be allowed near the OKC memorial.

The terrorists who have been blowing up abortion clinics and shooting doctors are self-proclaimed Christians also, but no one throws rocks at men in reversed collars or people wearing crosses because of this, not even the family members of the people they've murdered, not even the horribly-scarred survivors of the fires they set.

But, you will say, those people aren't good Christians. They aren't good examples of Christianity. You know what? That's exactly what my Muslim friends say about Osama bin Laden and his gang of perverts. The behavior of Al Qaeda is utterly prohibited by their reading of the Qur'an...the reading they've learned in their mosques.

In my opinion this proposed mosque will be an emblem of American freedom, ESPECIALLY since it's near Ground Zero. It will help educate people about Islam, so that they will know that Osama bin Laden and his ilk are outcast heretics in Islam, and have no justification in ANY religion for their murderous behavior. There will also be a community center which will be open to everyone, not just Muslims, in a neighborhood sadly deprived of such things.

Please consider what I've said carefully, and then think about whether it changes your position. I know both 9/11 and Muslims, and I support the building of this mosque.

Your little issues with your Muslim and Arab friends are irrevalent what we are talking about is a deliberate slap in the face to all Americans and Non Muslims.

This Mosque is designed to over look the exact spot on Ground Zero the site of conquest to Muslims and is put so close to the spot of Ground Zero (and it is as close to Ground Zero as you could possibly get). because it is designed to celebrate the attacks and is made as a deliberate offence to non Muslims and is made to be a sign of victory against infidels. The building itself was hit by piece of the plane so really it is apart of the tragedy of Ground Zero and should be a war memorial. Chooseing this spot which was apart of the attack on our country bu Islam to build a mosque is horribly offensive. It is meant to be as in Islam building a Mosque on a piece of conqured land is a common custom to Muslims.

This supposedly moderate Mosque is not sponsered by a moderate Imam. This same Imam refuses to condemn terrorism, has supported Hamas and in his book calls for Sharia law to be implimented in America. A man who says one thing to the Muslim Arab media but another to the English media.

Would you build a Shinto shrine or a shrine to the Japanese on Pearl Harbor? Would you build a shrine to Nazism outside Auschwitz? Would you build a Christian church outside a Christian terror attack? Would you build a Mosque in Bamiyan or in a Buddhist Temple after the demolishing of the Buddhas of Bamiyan?

The answer to all of these is NO because anyone with a brain would know that to build shrines dedicated to the aggressors of terror and attacks is horribly offensive and poor outreach. Which none of these groups with the exception of Islam and maybe Christianity would ever think of doing these things to wronged people.

The mosque itself is named after Cordoba a coqured area in Spain by Muslims who turned the grand church there into a mosque.

Further more the majority of Americans are against it and the Muslims don't care. The govenor of New York offered the Muslims free land in order to build their mosque but they did not care. Donald Trump offered to buy the land from them and yet the Muslims don't care.

Also just for all of you who think that Islam is some how peaceful and the terrorists are heretics. I have some verses from the Quran and Hadith to show you.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm
“Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.” — Bukhari 9.84.57

Oh and for the gays take a look at this.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/026-homosexuality.htm
Oh and for the ladies
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/010-women-worth-less.htm

I will leave you with a few videos showing the offensiveness of said mosque.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcF9XxyZ55A&feature=channel_video_title[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJQ4bwGPRuk[/ame]

Oh and before anyone says "Oh well Christianity is violent too and you wouldn't say these things about Christianity."

I hate both religions and am a Pagan Goddess worshipper. Three Goddesses I worship Allat, Al Uzza and Manat were violently purged from all of Arabia by Muhammed.
 
Well, no analogy is perfect; that's the nature of analogies. Islam has no central authority as Christianity did for hundreds of years, and as the RCC does today. The Inquisition in the RCC, unlike Al Qaeda in Islam, was quite mainstream when created, and still is today (for Roman Catholics); a former Grand Inquisitor (hey, they changed the name to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, but it's the same organization) is now Pope.

Even if Sunni Islam had a Pope, it would not be Osama bin Laden.

Give it time.

Mr. Ratzinger is is nominally the "Bishop of Rome," just another bishop amongst many. Strange how power and grandeur seem to centralise, isn't it? The ayatollahs are just a step away from all the trappings of papist ascendancy.
 
The smartest thing the US could have done was push to fund a Mosque exactly on the spot of the World trade center.

The extremists got exactly what they wanted. A hateful America doing their recruiting for them.
 
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