Cordoba Mosque at 9/11 Ground Zero

[Dolmance]

Let's look at the brass tacks:

1. No "new mosque" is being built; an old building that was ALREADY OWNED by the parties involved and for which plans existed long before "9/11" is being converted.

2. It is not, as some like to assert, "On Ground Zero;" it is two blocks away. There is already a mosque that exists closer to "Ground Zero." Should that now be demolished?

3. If we're going to start denying certain groups rights afforded to them by the U.S. Constitution based on activities of those who claim to adhere to the same label, then there are a number of Catholic, Baptist and otherwise Christian institutions that need to be claimed and demolished this instant, not to mention institutions belonging to certain ethnic, ideological and otherwise minority groups.

There is no argument here, save the one concocted by tribalistic meat heads who need an enemy to rail against.

 

[JB3]

The smartest thing the US could have done was push to fund a Mosque exactly on the spot of the World trade center.

The extremists got exactly what they wanted. A hateful America doing their recruiting for them.

That wouldn't do anyone any good. Where it is now is a good place.

 

[TX-Beau]

Something like that would have been and incredibly powerful symbol.

 

[Críostóir]

I'd like to point out that this thread was dead for nearly a year when Mariatenebre resurrected it with her lengthy screed.

 

[chrisrobin]

Would you build a Shinto shrine or a shrine to the Japanese on Pearl Harbor?

"The Japanese" did not attack Pearl Harbor. The Japanese Air Force did. Also, I doubt if anyone will be able to find a war that was "waged in the name of Buddah". I don't think there's anything in Shinto that sanctions sneak attack.

Would you build a shrine to Nazism outside Auschwitz?

National Socialism isn't a religion (except here, perhaps).

Would you build a Christian church outside a Christian terror attack?

One of the biggest Christian terror attacks was the Westward Expansion Movement AKA "taking up the white man's burden." One of the biggest acts of genocide in the history of the planet - the massive slaughter of indigenous Americans. We have the "Gateway Arch" representing the "Gateway to the West". It's not a church, but it will do.

 

[chrisrobin]

Let's look at the brass tacks:

1. No "new mosque" is being built; an old building that was ALREADY OWNED by the parties involved and for which plans existed long before "9/11" is being converted.

2. It is not, as some like to assert, "On Ground Zero;" it is two blocks away. There is already a mosque that exists closer to "Ground Zero." Should that now be demolished?

3. If we're going to start denying certain groups rights afforded to them by the U.S. Constitution based on activities of those who claim to adhere to the same label, then there are a number of Catholic, Baptist and otherwise Christian institutions that need to be claimed and demolished this instant, not to mention institutions belonging to certain ethnic, ideological and otherwise minority groups.

There is no argument here, save the one concocted by tribalistic meat heads who need an enemy to rail against.

Insert >beating a dead horse emoticon<

 

[Kulindahr]

I'd like to point out that this thread was dead for nearly a year when Mariatenebre resurrected it with her lengthy screed.

Ignorance and bile roil and boil.

Her fantasy-world screed was answered nicely enough by Dolmance. Though to add to it, someone on the web got creative and did a view from the top of the proposed Muslim center, using google earth -- and you can't even see Ground Zero from it.


Another perspective would come from my late Swiss grandmother: the buildings fell; people died; we got the guy behind it -- get over it. Or perhaps more to the point: Susy broke you toy, but that doesn't mean all little girls are toy-breakers.

 

[Críostóir]

So what? The rest of the hopeless threads on here any better? 99% of the threads in this forum are entrenched bullshit copy paste debates from people browsing fringe sites on either side of the political spectrum anway. Don't see the differnece between digging up old b/s and constantly starting new threads about the same b/s

Digging up an ancient thread on a topic that's no longer current (I mean, the Cordoba Mosque? Seriously?) is indicative of something kind of...obsessive...on the part of the resurrector.

 

[White Eagle]

I was reading along thinking we've had this debate awhile back. Wait a minute, it's not Aug 25th. This is over a year old. Who is this Mariatenebre, a str8 woman comes to a gay forum to bring up something we've already hashed out. The world didn't end, w3e settled this last year.
Get over it!!

 

[Mariatenebre]

"The Japanese" did not attack Pearl Harbor. The Japanese Air Force did. Also, I doubt if anyone will be able to find a war that was "waged in the name of Buddah". I don't think there's anything in Shinto that sanctions sneak attack.


National Socialism isn't a religion (except here, perhaps).


One of the biggest Christian terror attacks was the Westward Expansion Movement AKA "taking up the white man's burden." One of the biggest acts of genocide in the history of the planet - the massive slaughter of indigenous Americans. We have the "Gateway Arch" representing the "Gateway to the West". It's not a church, but it will do.

There is nothing in Shintoism that sanctions suicide bombing. However you would not find any Japanese or Shinto person asking for a shrine to be build on the site of the attack. However in Islam there are mandates for terrorism as I have pointed out and building a site on an area which was hit by the plane and that is designed to over look the site of conquest (which it is very much that) is very offensive. To me this mosque is similar to the Yasukuni shrine in Japan which enshrines war criminals as Kami. Something I am also againts.

National Socialism is an ideology and religion is an ideology. Religion as Ayn Rand said is a primitive form of philosophy. Really there is more wiggle room for debate and reform with a political ideology then a religion because political idelogies do not think that they come from some unquestionable higher power and thus are usually open for debate and scruteny. Religion especially the Abrahamic religions believe that their teachings are from God and God can never be questioned and his teachings never reformed because they are timeless.

Next and do you think I approve of the Gateway Arch? It pains me what the Native Americans suffered under the white European Christians and it is an eternal blight on the history of our nation. I think both the Gateway Arch and the Ground Zero Mosque is deeply offensive and should not be built. However it should be with the people to decide not to build these things as the government should have no role in these matters. Also to wrongs do not make a right just because we did terrorist actions towards the Native Americans does not mean that other groups and religions have a right to do the same to us. Plus the Ground Zero Mosque is even more offensive because atleast the Arch could be explained as a tribute to discovery of the West where as this mosque is made as a deliberate offence as I have pointed out.

Digging up an ancient thread on a topic that's no longer current (I mean, the Cordoba Mosque? Seriously?) is indicative of something kind of...obsessive...on the part of the resurrector.

Peope have a right to post their opinions about any thread topic no matter how ancient it is. Plus since this topic is still on going in the media and in the world it has nothing to do with obsession but rather me speaking on my opinions.

 

[Críostóir]

Peope have a right to post their opinions blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Plus since this topic is still blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Fixed that last paragraph so you can see how others read it.

 

[chrisrobin]

...any further.

 

[JayQueer]

I'm NOT in support of this mosque at ground zero. Where the great Twin Towers once stood, there are now two giant square holes in the ground. And now, there will instead be a tall "Cordoba Mosque" nearby?

Thousands of everyday Americans were murdered on September 11, 2001, in the name of jihad and extremist Islam.

I don't understand why liberals love to hate conservative Christians, but liberals love to defend Islam. Are you not aware of what conservative Muslims do to gay men in the Middle East? They execute them by hanging gay men from a noose -- in public.

http://www.towleroad.com/2005/07/report_gay_yout.html

 

[chrisrobin]

I'm NOT in support of this mosque at ground zero.

Bully for you. I hate to break this to you, but there were Muslims killed in the Twin Towers also. The fact that they did not conform to your ultra-high standards of relating to the Divine doesn't make them any less dead.

 

[JB3]

Something like that would have been and incredibly powerful symbol.

No, it wouldn't have been. Both sides would have hated it, and it would only inflame tensions.

 

[Kulindahr]

I'm NOT in support of this mosque at ground zero.

That's nice.

Because no one has ever proposed having one there.

 

[chrisrobin]

That's nice.

Because no one has ever proposed having one there.

Only in the estimation of Faux "News" so it must be [STRIKE]ture[/STRIKE] true*.
*Sorry, I was delirious just contemplating Neocon "truth".

 

[Mariatenebre]

Bully for you. I hate to break this to you, but there were Muslims killed in the Twin Towers also. The fact that they did not conform to your ultra-high standards of relating to the Divine doesn't make them any less dead.

However if it wasn't for Islam the Twin Towers would not have been struck. Which I bet that atleast a few of the Muslims who were killed had radical views. Plus the whole attack was based on Islam so it is an Islamic attack. However Jayqueer makes sense why is it that you Liberals love to defend Islam but castigate Christians. I gave you some quotes from the Quran and Hadith on what they think should be done about gays. This mosque is made deliberately to rub 9/11 in the face of Non Muslims and is made like many mosques as a symbol of triumph in regard to the attack by choosing a building which was hit by the plane and is made to over look the site of conquest.

Which I see that everyone here is silent like a shy fist on the issue that this supposedly moderate imam calls for Sharia in this country, praises Hamas and Hezbollah and has proven to say one thing to the Arab Muslim media and another to the Western media. No one has problems with anyone building a mosque, what they have a problem with is building a triumphal mosque there on the site of their conquest in a buiding damaged by the terror attacks meant to overlook the site of conquest at Ground Zero.

 

[Kulindahr]

However if it wasn't for Islam the Twin Towers would not have been struck. Which I bet that atleast a few of the Muslims who were killed had radical views. Plus the whole attack was based on Islam so it is an Islamic attack. However Jayqueer makes sense why is it that you Liberals love to defend Islam but castigate Christians. I gave you some quotes from the Quran and Hadith on what they think should be done about gays. This mosque is made deliberately to rub 9/11 in the face of Non Muslims and is made like many mosques as a symbol of triumph in regard to the attack by choosing a building which was hit by the plane and is made to over look the site of conquest.

Which I see that everyone here is silent like a shy fist on the issue that this supposedly moderate imam calls for Sharia in this country, praises Hamas and Hezbollah and has proven to say one thing to the Arab Muslim media and another to the Western media. No one has problems with anyone building a mosque, what they have a problem with is building a triumphal mosque there on the site of their conquest in a buiding damaged by the terror attacks meant to overlook the site of conquest at Ground Zero.

Not much on facts, are you?

There is no mosque.

The building liars are calling a mosque will not overlook Ground Zero.


Please provide documentation that the existing building, two blocks away, was damaged in the 9/11 attack.

 

[Kulindahr]

http://www.prayerspacenyc.org/

Yes there is. Funny thing is, you now have to search for the site where it is still called a mosque. A year ago it still clearly stated it was a mosque at the main site, park51. Somebody is trying to rewrite history.

Odd, because even fourteen months ago the leaders of the thing were saying it wasn't a mosque.

It looks to me like that site is someone else riding piggyback on the actual project, for their own reasons.