There's a mosque in the community center, as a Christian-funded one might have a chapel, but the community center will be open to all...and such a thing is much needed in that neighborhood.
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Cordoba Mosque at 9/11 Ground Zero
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There's a mosque in the community center, as a Christian-funded one might have a chapel, but the community center will be open to all...and such a thing is much needed in that neighborhood.
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It is a mosque the site has a prayer room which is a mosque. Quit being dishonest and it is made to over look Ground Zero.
Further more this article shows that it was damaged by the plane.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...tatus-park51-burlington-coat-factory-building
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The difference is that this mosque is being made on a site damaged by the plane and meant to over look Ground Zero. It is deliberately offensive to build a mosque there and in it's design. Just like the Muslim trandition of building mosques on cherished ares of conqured sites this is no different. Mulitiple people have given them money to build said mosque elsewhere and they would not take it and the opinions of the majority of Americans don't matter to them either as this mosque is made to be offensive and to rub 9/11 in the faces of people.
Further more many Muslims of conscious themselves have come out against the mosque like Zuhdi Jasser.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-patriotic-muslims-warning-on-ground-zero-mosque/
No matter how many times you're told that this isn't true, you won't believe it. It was a Burlington Coat Factory (an outlet chain in these parts). And you can't see Ground Zero from there, even from the top of the proposed building, because other buildings get in the way.
The ONLY WAY a mosque "rubs 9/11" in anyone's face is if you believe that Islam is intrinsically a terrorist religion.
And only truly evil, stupid bigots believe that.
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The building is going to be much higher before it is finished with more floors and it is designed to over look Ground Zero the site of conquest. Further more what it was dosen't matter as Pamela Geller said it is a cemetery a piece of the plane damaged the building.
It rubs Islam in the face of Americans. As I have mentioned before it is built on a site damaged by the wreckage and meant to over look the site of their conquest. It is not that it is a mosque it is where and how it is built that it is offensive. It is made to provoke and offends Non Muslims and Americans by building a triumphal Mosque over a site that Islam attacked.
Next only fools do not believe that Islam is a terrorist religion. The Quran and Hadith encourage violence against disbelievers. Plus Pagans and non Abrahamics are meant to be killed unlike the Christians and Jews who can accept Dhimmitude or second class citizenship.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm
Tell me don't these verses seem like terrorist commands? Or are you just going to ignore them under the guise of political correctness.
Oh, wow. You're getting your information from PAMELA GELLER.
THAT explains your complete imperviousness to facts and logic.
Pamela Geller is a slavering psycho bigot from hell, which I wish I believed in so she could burn in it when she dies.
And not that you'll listen, but you can use Google Earth for a view from the "top" of the proposed building. Ground Zero cannot be seen from there.
Oh, why should I bother? You insist, not only on your own opinion, but on your own facts. It is a complete waste of my time to discuss anything with you, ever.
THAT explains your complete imperviousness to facts and logic.
Pamela Geller is a slavering psycho bigot from hell, which I wish I believed in so she could burn in it when she dies.
And not that you'll listen, but you can use Google Earth for a view from the "top" of the proposed building. Ground Zero cannot be seen from there.
Oh, why should I bother? You insist, not only on your own opinion, but on your own facts. It is a complete waste of my time to discuss anything with you, ever.
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Since it can seat over 2.000 people it is more like building one big assed cathedral inside a community center. You can sugarcoat this all you want. With a name like Cordoba Project and the site they chose to build it on it really isn't that far fetched to view this as a big fuck U and a slap in the face.
It's the price of an open democratic society to allow people their offensive projects, but to paint this as some beautiful, inclusive gesture to mend bridges...Sorry, you lose me there.
Do you even know what Cordoba signifies?
The city was a center of learning and cooperation between Muslims, Christians, and Jews.
The site they chose for it is two blocks from Ground Zero. I don't see how that's a slap in the face.
Seating for 2,000 -- for what? Mosques don't do seating; they have open floor, for those rugs.
BTW, IIRC, they bought the property before 9/11. Unless you want to play conspiracy theory and say they were in league with bin Laden, that rules out the whole slap-in-the-face bit.
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Yeah -- I almost choked on a hot dog I was having for dinner when I saw that source -- about as credible as Alex Jones.
On second thought, less credible.
JayQueer
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I don't agree with everything Pamela Geller says, but I do credit her for bringing the Ground Zero mosque to America's attention. It is unconscionable that people still want to build a mosque, sorry, "community center", in such proximity to the former World Trade Center towers which were demolished by terrorists practicing extremist Muslim ideology.
Frankly, it AMAZES me that some of you still cannot understand that Islam does have violent, extremist elements to it. Islam, unlike other religions is NOT tolerant whatsoever of homosexuality. You will find organizations of gay Christians, and gay Jews. There is no such thing as a "gay Muslim community". Gay Muslims remain deeply closeted -- out of fear for their lives.
In ALL countries where Muslims constitute the majority of the population, homosexuality is ILLEGAL.
In the more "liberal" Muslim countries such as Turkey, homosexuality is punishable by a penalty & prison time; in more "traditional" Muslim countries in the Middle East -- an admission of homosexuality means you are executed.
Certainly there are many, many peaceful & good-hearted Muslims out there, but there are still violent undertones inherent within the faith.
Consider this -- in almost all occurrences or places of religious tension, Muslims are somehow involved. In Israel, there are constant tensions between Christians/ Jews and Muslims. In India & Pakistan, there are constant tensions between Hindus and Muslims.
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Here are just some of the major terrorist attacks, in just the U.S., Spain, and India, between 2000 and 2010. See if you can tell any similarities between the religious ideology of the attackers --
1) October 12, 2000 -- The naval vessel U.S.S. Cole is bombed in Yemen by al-Queda, a terrorist organization led by Osama bin Laden, a fundamentalist Muslim who believes that all Muslims should practice "jihad" against "The West". 17 American soldiers perish; 39 more are injured.
2) September 11, 2001 -- 19 al-Queda operatives hijack American airliner planes and crash them into the World Trade Center in NYC, the Pentagon near DC, and in Shanksville, PA. The World Trade Center towers collapse. Approximately 3,000 Americans lose their lives in the worst terrorist attack in American history, and another 6,000 are injured.
3) March 11, 2004 -- Passenger trains in Madrid, Spain are bombed during rush hour by a loose cell of Moroccan, Syrian, and Algerian Muslims. 191 people are killed; over 2,000 people are injured.
4) September 2005 -- With increased security in U.S. airspace, al-Queda operatives plan to blow up trains in the New York City subway system. The plan is foiled and prevented at the last minute.
5) July 11, 2006 -- In Mumbai, India, a series of 7 detonated bombs on passenger trains kill 209 people, and injure 700 people. The culprits were a Muslim extremist organization called Lashkar-e-Toiba and the "Students Islamic Movement of India."
6) November 26 - 29, 2008 -- In Mumbai, India, in a series of 10 coordinated attacks, terrorists from the Muslim extremist organization Lashkar-e-Toiba capture & destroy buildings such as the Taj Mahal Palace. 154 people (including several Americans) are killed, and 300 more people are injured.
7) June 1, 2009 -- An American Muslim (who recently converted to Islam) opens up gunfire at a U.S. Army recruiting center in Little Rock, Arkansas. One Army recruit is killed, another is injured.
8) November 5, 2009 -- A U.S. Army major (who was also a doctor) opens up gunfire at the Ft. Hood Army base in Texas, killing 13 American soldiers, and injuring 29 others. In the months leading up to this tragic event, other people had noticed that the gunman was becoming more vocal about his Muslim beliefs and desire not to engage in the Middle East. When he opened fire on his American comrades, he yelled out, "Allahu Akbar!" (the same final phrase uttered by the 9/11 hijackers).
kallipolis
Know thyself
^I have visited Turkey several times and can vouch that there are gay bars in Istanbul, and street cruising by gays. Rent boys also cruise Taksim Square in Istanbul, and can also confirm that Turkish men make great lovers.
Turkey is a Muslim country, not an Islamic state.
If I recall well you are a Hindu and your family originate in India where there is a centuries old feud between Hindus, and Muslims that led to the partition of India in 1947 and the creation of the Muslim state of Pakistan.
The continuing animosity between India, and Pakistan is well reported in the media.
I have bedded many Muslims over the years from such countries as Pakistan, India, Iran, Iraq and even Afghanistan. Most of them have been enthusiastic lovers.
I have even bedded Muslim men from the city of Mashhad, Iran where the authorities hanged two youths for the rape of a boy.
We should distinguish between the traditional view of homosexuality among Muslims, and the on the ground reality which evidences that Muslim men, and boys are easily bedded by gay men.
Here in Athens our inner city squares are filled with Muslim illegal refugees from Asia who for the price of a meal, and a little tender loving care can be bedded. Afghans, and Iranians are the most enthusiastic. They prefer discretion, and low profile gays rather than flamers.
Stereotyping all Muslims anti-gay is as wide of the mark as stereotyping all gay men neurotic, flamboyant, even hyper dramatic.
Turkey is a Muslim country, not an Islamic state.
If I recall well you are a Hindu and your family originate in India where there is a centuries old feud between Hindus, and Muslims that led to the partition of India in 1947 and the creation of the Muslim state of Pakistan.
The continuing animosity between India, and Pakistan is well reported in the media.
I have bedded many Muslims over the years from such countries as Pakistan, India, Iran, Iraq and even Afghanistan. Most of them have been enthusiastic lovers.
I have even bedded Muslim men from the city of Mashhad, Iran where the authorities hanged two youths for the rape of a boy.
We should distinguish between the traditional view of homosexuality among Muslims, and the on the ground reality which evidences that Muslim men, and boys are easily bedded by gay men.
Here in Athens our inner city squares are filled with Muslim illegal refugees from Asia who for the price of a meal, and a little tender loving care can be bedded. Afghans, and Iranians are the most enthusiastic. They prefer discretion, and low profile gays rather than flamers.
Stereotyping all Muslims anti-gay is as wide of the mark as stereotyping all gay men neurotic, flamboyant, even hyper dramatic.
Just_Believe18
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There's so much bigotry here that I would rally against, but I am just exhausted by the prospect of having to re-defend religious freedom guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and support the dignity of Americans who just happen to be Muslim. I mean, seriously people. Substitute gay or black in a different environmental context to what you're saying and see the hatred in your hearts.
JayQueer
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Okay then. What about the "dignity" of Americans who "just happen to be" Christians, and believe that homosexuality is a sin? Will you defend their "dignity" too?
Further, if a Mormon Church or Southern Baptist congregation (which don't approve of homosexuality) wanted to open up a new church in the heart of West Hollywood, the Castro, or Boystown -- do you honestly think most gays would vocally support their right to be there? Or do you think gays would be picketing & organizing politically to get them to leave their "gayborhood"?
I'm just pointing out the inconsistency that many liberals have in constantly attacking Christians & Christianity, yet repeatedly defending Muslims.
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I've read documents from the time period -- in Spanish, Hebrew, Greek, and Latin (all of which were drastically different than the ones I learned, because of centuries of difference, and therefore fun to tackle) -- from people in Cordoba. And I was long a fan of El Cid, and so am a bit familiar with the Reconquista.
Not that the last is even relevant -- it comes after the significance of Cordoba.
So you're another one of those people who engages in the fallacy that someone who points out errors by others is saying the material the errors concern is wonderful.
Did you finish high school? or did the high school you finished teach how to do critical thinking? Noting errors concerning a description of "A" does not constitute a defense of "A".
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It is offensive to many people, yes -- which is why I supported the land swap offered by the governor. But OTOH, as Criostoir says, parts of the populace being offended is the price of freedom.
But the problem here is the piles of lies used to stir up emotions about the project -- and as I pointed out in the previous post, pointing out an attacker's lies does not constitute a defense of the position.
If I may daydream a moment, had I some billions of dollars to play with, it wouold be a good test of their intent to buy the land on either side and put up a few other community centers: Jewish and Greek Orthodox flanking the Muslim center, then Buddhist and Roman Catholic, Lutheran and Confucian.... It would make a true Cordoba.
Seriously, your thought process is delicious. I need to know how you come up this disjointed thoughts. You must teach me
THANK you. And it IS exhausting.
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That's a good word for it.
People with shallow reasoning skills have to realize it's possible to defend someone's liberties without approving what they believe. If someone wanted to build a Holy Roller Apostolic Spirit-Blessed Church of the Third Anointing of the United God nearby, however stupid I might think their theology I'd defend their right to do so -- and exercise my right to say what a stupid set of beliefs they had. See, the dignity of a person doesn't have to do with what he believes, but with the fact that he's a person. In that, he is equal to all the rest of us -- not in abilities or material resources, but in personhood, and thus in value, and (properly) in standing before the law.
As a corollary, to attack someone on the basis of falsehoods doesn't harm the attacked person in the least, but it demonstrates that the attacker doesn't understand either critical thinking or liberty -- critical thinking for obvious reasons, and liberty because it shows a belief that some people are less important than others, and defaming them is a legitimate way to get others to believe the same.
I don't like Islam. It's founder was a brigand, a terrorist, a rapist, and more, so it brings out people's tendencies to those things. Crashing two airplanes into towers to kill innocent people, including some of your own religious brothers and sisters, fits with Mohammed very neatly. But that doesn't mean I'm going to react with despite and rejection any time there's something Muslims want to do, regardless of the impression of their intent on other people.
And if there's a worry that they'll make their building taller than the blueprints and permit applications show, so it really does overlook Ground Zero, and you object to that, then a proper course of action would be to contact the owners of the buildings between them and Ground Zero, get a campaign going for funding, and wait until the building is finished -- and then erect a big multilevel solar array on the intervening buildings so the tower can't see Ground Zero any more.
And they would scream, and some would chuckle, and others shake their heads, while others just shrugged.
That's freedom -- and instead of rejecting it, we should all be embracing it.
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What "leaders"????
IO accuse people of lying when they lie.
No such "proof" was presented: over a year ago, the word was that there was no mosque. Apparently you haven't even read the thread.
Cordoba did not have "centuries of bloodshed".
Shangri-La was in the mountains, and Buddhist -- nothing to do with Islam. Interesting novel, BTW.
I'll note that you continue in the same fallacy. Please, go study Aristotle on how to engage in rational discourse -- in the original language, preferably, but the sense comes through in a decent translation.
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I don't like the idea of this edifice so close to the site where so many were killed by islamofascists. But if we are to be tolerant of religion, so should we be in the case of St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church.
This church was in the immediate proximity of the trade center and was the only church to be destroyed. Yet, for some inexplicable reason, the city fathers haven't exactly bent over backwards to accommodate those who practice Greek Orthodoxy with the same fervor as those who practice
St. Nick's should be rebuilt before we accommodate any other group. They were, after all, there first.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38462
This church was in the immediate proximity of the trade center and was the only church to be destroyed. Yet, for some inexplicable reason, the city fathers haven't exactly bent over backwards to accommodate those who practice Greek Orthodoxy with the same fervor as those who practice
St. Nick's should be rebuilt before we accommodate any other group. They were, after all, there first.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38462