Could you be friends with someone who opposed gay marriage?

[kallipolis]

I can, and am.

I have said to him, "If and when gay marriage is legalised, and I decide to marry, I will send you an invite and you can decide whether you wish to attend."

A wise poster, who will keep his friends.

A wiser man than I said that perfecting, perfection begins with us

 

[sixthson]

There are friends and there are friends. If the person who opposes my marrying my man also has a problem with us loving each other, I can't imagine that we would be friends.

Gay marriage is a hot issue today, however. Everyone has to come to terms with it in their own way. If the approval of gay marriage is the litmus test for friendship, how can we expect to change their minds? Friends have that kind of influence over each other. We are able to change one anothers hearts and minds. The law cannot do that.

Most intelligent people's thinking has a way of evolving.
Cutting people out of our lives does nothing to encourage that kind of growth.

 

[luminum]

Oh please man. Not being able to marry your boyfriend is not the same as being subjected to slavery, torture, and genocide. Get real.

Neither is not being able to marry a white woman or a black man because of your skin color. If a black woman and a white woman want to get married and they can't (like that couple in Louisiana) it's not the same as being subjected to slavery, torture, or genocide. But it's unacceptable because it's part of a larger context of historical racial violence, which includes those things above.

And similarly, not being allowed to marry your partner because of your sex is part of a larger context of violence that the queer community faces, that historically includes genocide, state-sanctioned executions, life imprisonment, prejudice, and torture. History's made it pretty clear what happened and continues to homosexuals on a regular basis.

These kinds of discrimination are the mundane incarnations of these prejudices in the modern era. They've only changed forms, but not motivation. Instead of enslaving blacks, prejudices manifest as keeping races "pure" and maintaining glass ceilings in the academic and working world. Instead of executing gays (which still happens to this day around the world), prejudice manifests in political actions to prohibit the expressions of their relationships and their lives.

 

[Críostóir]

Listen to the luminum. In the luminum there is wisdom.

Thank you, luminum.

 

[glo-unit]

priceless.

telling people that they're intolerant for not being on the side of gay marriage - and then if they don't support it - casting them aside.

sounds pretty tolerant to me.

Many people also see not believing in gay marriage as saying that they should forever be 2nd class citizens.

 

[glo-unit]

I have friends who probably wouldn't be the first to sign up to support gay marriage, but I don't believe I have any who fundamentally believe that it is wrong. If I did, and even with those friends of mine who have reservations, that would indicate that what friendship we do have hasn't dealt with the fundamental issues of discrimination and prejudice between us.

You can enjoy someone's company regardless of what they believe, but that doesn't mean that your friendship is based upon mutual respect and human dignity--just that you have a shared interest. Somewhere in their beliefs, you are not on an equal level to them when it comes to basic fairness and equality. That's a real issue, but it doesn't mean that at least on a superficial level, they can't tell a good joke or play a mean game of cards.

The same goes with friends I have who still have issues of racism to deal with. We may be friends on some level, but if the friendship were to ever get stronger, then these would be fundamental issues that would have to be addressed.

This is a very well done post, and reflects my feelings. I know many people that don't approve of my sexuality and am quite friendly with a lot of them, and care about them. However the more I experience in the life the more I like being around those who accept all of me, completely. So can I be friends with someone who opposes gay marriage, yes, however those who I am most comfortable around, who are the biggest influences on my life, and consider my absolutely best friends will be those who have no problems with my sexuality.

 

[bankside]

"Tolerant" does not mean "Everything is equally good and everyone's opinion is equally valid and every idea is just as smart no matter what the consequences."

Ideas, attitudes and laws matter. When someone supports discriminatory laws, it has consequences for innocent bystanders who just want to get on with their lives, maybe with someone they love.

A gay man does not need to go along with the discrimination against him just for the sake of getting along with people. Embracing "friends" with stupid prejudices, accepting those who support laws that make him a second class citizen, is not tolerance, it is pointless self-destructive stupidity.

Any time you spend on someone like that at all is really doing them a favour, and if they can't figure it out, quit pretending there is any friendship there in the first place.

 

[boxerdudeuk]

Some of you need to take a step back, think over this for a moment, and then reply again. It doesn't matter what kind of personal hangups you have over gay marriage--but don't sit here and try to make yourself look like the 'nice, tolerant gay'- you're putting up with and allowing your 'friends' to tell you that you're a second-class citizen. You're being silly at most to deny that.

no, i don't need to change my opinion. i'm very comfortable with it as it is.

there's a whole array of reasons why someone may not support gay marriage.

IF someone couldn't support it because of outright homophobia, well then it would be unlikely that i'd be their friend to begin with. that goes without saying.

however, if someone couldn't support it because it clashed with their religious beliefs, then absolutely i would be fine with it. who am i to ask them to change their beliefs? that's very private, personal, and for many people - a major foundation on which they base their entire lives. to ask someone else to change their beliefs or i can't be friends with them anymore is absolutely insane.

you can't preach tolerance and then cast someone aside because their beliefs clash with yours.

the great thing about a forum like this is that we can ALL have different opinions. my opinion is that i wouldn't stop a friendship because they wouldn't support gay marriage. i myself am not militant about it.

i don't need the financial benefit of marriage - if i decided to enter into a lifelong commitment with someone they wouldn't even have to work. to me, a lifelong commitment is a lifelong commitment. i don't need a piece of paper to say i love someone.

again, that's a PERSONAL opinion. and it's not going to change.

(so don't even try).

 

[bankside]

no, i don't need to change my opinion. i'm very comfortable with it as it is.

there's a whole array of reasons why someone may not support gay marriage.

IF someone couldn't support it because of outright homophobia, well then it would be unlikely that i'd be their friend to begin with. that goes without saying.

however, if someone couldn't support it because it clashed with their religious beliefs, then absolutely i would be fine with it. who am i to ask them to change their beliefs? that's very private, personal, and for many people - a major foundation on which they base their entire lives. to ask someone else to change their beliefs or i can't be friends with them anymore is absolutely insane.

you can't preach tolerance and then cast someone aside because their beliefs clash with yours.

the great thing about a forum like this is that we can ALL have different opinions. my opinion is that i wouldn't stop a friendship because they wouldn't support gay marriage. i myself am not militant about it.

i don't need the financial benefit of marriage - if i decided to enter into a lifelong commitment with someone they wouldn't even have to work. to me, a lifelong commitment is a lifelong commitment. i don't need a piece of paper to say i love someone.

again, that's a PERSONAL opinion. and it's not going to change.

(so don't even try).

I highlighted the important bit of what you said. You've hit the nail on the head, but then driven it through your foot.

Religious beliefs are very private and personal. If a religious person has private personal beliefs that are not compatible with equal marriage for gays, they have two choices:
1) don't have a same sex marriage
2) don't go to one if invited

When they decide that their private and personal religious beliefs give them the right to pass laws or keep laws that prevent anyone else from getting married, then they are imposing their PERSONAL opinion on all of us.

Why do you get so worked up about the right to your personal opinion on this forum, but not when your so-called friend makes the decision for you about marriage. You don't want to get married, fine, but in this case all of our religious "friends" are telling us the choice shouldn't even be there.

 

[mbamike]

Yes, my friends don't have to have all the same opinions as I do.

 

[boxerdudeuk]

Yes, my friends don't have to have all the same opinions as I do.

you must hate yourself and be very lonely and have no self esteem. why are you so self loathing?

 

[Wtrain]

I highlighted the important bit of what you said. You've hit the nail on the head, but then driven it through your foot.

Religious beliefs are very private and personal. If a religious person has private personal beliefs that are not compatible with equal marriage for gays, they have two choices:
1) don't have a same sex marriage
2) don't go to one if invited

When they decide that their private and personal religious beliefs give them the right to pass laws or keep laws that prevent anyone else from getting married, then they are imposing their PERSONAL opinion on all of us.

Why do you get so worked up about the right to your personal opinion on this forum, but not when your so-called friend makes the decision for you about marriage. You don't want to get married, fine, but in this case all of our religious "friends" are telling us the choice shouldn't even be there.

Very well written, I can't wait for Boxerdudeuk to respond...

 

[DiamondSkin]

I highlighted the important bit of what you said. You've hit the nail on the head, but then driven it through your foot.

Religious beliefs are very private and personal. If a religious person has private personal beliefs that are not compatible with equal marriage for gays, they have two choices:
1) don't have a same sex marriage
2) don't go to one if invited

When they decide that their private and personal religious beliefs give them the right to pass laws or keep laws that prevent anyone else from getting married, then they are imposing their PERSONAL opinion on all of us.

Why do you get so worked up about the right to your personal opinion on this forum, but not when your so-called friend makes the decision for you about marriage. You don't want to get married, fine, but in this case all of our religious "friends" are telling us the choice shouldn't even be there.

Once again, religion does not excuse the denial of equal rights in our country.

I don't care what their personal faith is. In America, there is a separation of church and state.

Religion is not an excuse for homophobia.

If someone thinks you're going to burn hell for being gay in eternity, because of their deep, personal faith, would you still be friends with that person?

Giving those of pious faith a pass for homophobia is a path we do not want to go on.

Christians are against gay teachers on religious grounds. So ban gay teachers.

Christians are against gay adoption on religious grounds. So ban gay adoption.

And so and so forth.

 

[DiamondSkin]

Let's do a simple cut and paste:

If Black People Don't Want To Marry White People, Then Is It Fair To Expect White People To Accept Interracial Marriage?

If Black People Don't Believe In Interracial Marriage, Then, Is It Fair To Expect Whites To Believe In Interracial Marriage?

See what I did there?

 

[DiamondSkin]

What's the difference between prejudice and prejudice.

You don't seem to realize that many dichtomies that prevent people of different races from marrying are similar to gays' prevention of getting married.

Antagonists of interracial marriage used many of the same arguments that antagonists against gay marriage:

It's bad for children.
It's immoral.
Marriage is between a white man and a white woman.
God meant to keeps races seperate.
Interracial marriage will lessen the marriages of white people.
Churches will be forced to marry interracial couples
Interracial marriage will destabilize the institution of marriage



And etc. and etc.

It's a copy and paste. They didn't even try to come up with new material.

 

[DiamondSkin]

Um, I just GAVE you a legitimate correlation.

Race has nothing to do with gender which has nothing to do with religion which has nothing to with sexual orientation.

But all three precursors had been subjects of discrimination and unequal standing.

Interracial marriage is not gay marriage.

However the events, politics and debate surrounding both in their respective time periods show marked similarities to make note of in both.

Your argument was that some gay people do not want gay marriage nor believe it. Thus why should straight people accept it.

Prior to the landmark interracial marriage case, some black people did not want interracial marriage nor did they believe in it. Than why should white people have accepted it?

Yet it happened anyway.

Because both sides realized that race should not be a factor in who should marry who.

Just like we should all realize that gender and sexual orientation shouldn't be either...