Could you be friends with someone who opposed gay marriage?

[terry751]

I probably am now. Their view on that is just one aspect of their own person. I wouldn't allow that to spoil a real friendship.

True but it's not like you're disagreeing about a favorite film or a sports team. It's an issue that affects thousands upon thousands of people and the families they fought hard to create. I'd find that aspect a little hard to ignore.

 

[DiamondSkin]

I probably am now. Their view on that is just one aspect of their own person. I wouldn't allow that to spoil a real friendship.

You don't have a 'real' friendship. Your friend doesn't think you deserve equal rights. He or she thinks less of you.

It's not a 'view'. It's prejudice.

I'm a black person. Should I respect the 'view' of a 'friend' who thinks interracial marriage is wrong and only white people should marry white people?

Hell no.

Please respect yourself.

 

[DiamondSkin]

I'd bet half of my friends aren't advocates for same sex marriage. Oh well. It'll still become legal one of these days and they'll get over it or lump it. Yes I could still be friends with someone who opposed it. There are about a zillion other things to talk about.

They're not your friends. Again, if they do not think you shouldn't have equal rights, than they think less of you. They think you're not deserving of equal status. You're a second class citizen to them.

Again, I'm a black person. Should I be friends with someone with racist views against black people?

No. I have self-respect.

And judging by the people on this thread, we may never get legal status when we have people like yourself who thinks homophobia and intolerance is okay. Especially in their friends.

UGH.

 

[terry751]

Reone, I don't completely agree with you but I respect the way you'd handle it. I'm not so sure if that aspect is something I could completely ignore.

 

[DiamondSkin]

You're never going to agree 100% with someone. It would really depend on how much attention the situation drew in the friendship. How strongly they opposed it. If they continued to bring it up to you and shove their opinion in your face, then it's unacceptable. If they have their own beliefs and you have yours, and you can accept and move past your differences without having an elephant in the room then that is fine as well.

So I can be friends with a racist as long as he didn't shove his racism in my face and he didn't bring it up all the time.

After all it's his own beliefs, and I should accept his racist views...

 

[terry751]

I have a co-worker at work who's like that. No only is he against gay marriage but is also a staunch, Christian conservative. He also doesn't like most ethnic people but his wife is Asian. One time he pointed out that we're friends. I told him upfront we're not friends, we're co-workers who have some respect for each other, that's all. He didn't bring that up again. Be assured, I'm always professional toward him but we keep it at that. Anything else not about work, we don't discuss, not even our own families and the tragedies that might be affecting them.

 

[terry751]

Aaron86, someone who opposes gay marriage might as well be throwing rocks at us. But I digress.

 

[DiamondSkin]

To me this is like some radical feminist saying "I'd never be friends with someone who didn't support a woman's right to have an abortion."

No, it's more like a African-American saying "I'd never be friends with someone who thinks interracial marriage between blacks and whites should be illegal."

You're equating terminating a fetus to two persons of the same sex having the equal rights of heterosexuals.

Their entitled to have their own position. If you can't accept differing points of view on issues big or small, then life is going to be difficult for you because you'll always be mad about something.

AGAIN, with the word 'view' or 'opinion'. It is not an opinion. It is prejudice. It's homophobia.

To answer the question: yes, I could be friends with someone who opposed gay marriage. So long as they aren't out there hocking rocks at same sex couples at the chapel, they can believe what they want.

Than you wouldn't mind them practicing their 'opinion' and voting against gay marriage to deny you and your partner the right to marry and thus degrading you and yours to second class citizens.

They wouldn't be your friends. Friendship is about equality. When one friend thinks the other friend is not equal, than the friendship doesn't exist.

Lord, it's a black person being friends with a white person who thinks it's wrong for a black person to marry a white person. It's racism.

 

[terry751]

But their silence on the anti-gay movement's protests and behavior would be deafening.

 

[Willie Boy]

I would be more interested in why they oppose it than the fact they do. If it is their personal belief that marriage is between a man and a woman? Then yes I could be friends with them. Is it because they just don't like gays... probably no friendship.

Its not so much about the what as it is about the why. If we can't accept them with their personal beliefs, how can we insist they accept us with ours?

 

[terry751]

Willie boy, it's their personal beliefs that are jeopardizing the future of thousands upon thousands of families.

 

[DiamondSkin]

I would be more interested in why they oppose it than the fact they do. If it is their personal belief that marriage is between a man and a woman? Then yes I could be friends with them. Is it because they just don't like gays... probably no friendship.

Probably? Wow. That's as good as it gets with you, huh?

If I have personal belief that a white man should only marry a white woman, than you wouldn't have a problem being friends with me if you're person of another race, no?

I just don't want to dirty up White America bloodlines...

Its not so much about the what as it is about the why. If we can't accept them with their personal beliefs, how can we insist they accept us with ours?

It's not a 'belief'. It's prejudice.

Our belief is equality. Their 'belief' is discrimination.

We cannot accept or tolerate prejudice or intolerance.

 

[DiamondSkin]

Hardly. The equivalent would be if they were out there with picket signs or doing something to actively try to STOP gay marriage from happening. Someone simply having a position that collides with yours does not equate being pelted with a rock. A friend merely not agreeing with the concept of gay marriage isn't the same as gay bashing.

So it's okay for a racist person to be racist as long as he doesn't lynch anybody?

 

[terry751]

Couldn't have said it any better Diamondskin! [applause]

 

[terry751]

So it's okay for a racist person to be racist as long as he doesn't lynch anybody?

Along that line of reasoning then yeah I think that's what he's saying. Aaron86, please tell me I'm wrong.

 

[DiamondSkin]

If I'm not in favor gay marriage in theory, but am not doing anything to hinder it, then how is my personal belief jeopardizing the futures of thousands of families? Does my (singularly, as in ME alone) lack of support for your plight obstruct it in any way? Some people just like to feel affronted when they see someone who isn't interested in being a foot soldier for their cause. It becomes this "you're either with us, or against us!" mentality, and that isn't how you win friends and influence supports.

The fluttering wings of a butterfly can start a hurricane.

Opinions can turn into papers.

Papers can turn into propositions.

Propositions can turn into law.

You present a very real problem in the gay community. You don't give a damn but you don't mind if someone else fights for your rights while you sit at home and not give a shit.

It's complacency, pure and simple.

Blacks didn't win the Civil Rights Movement by sitting on their ass and being complacent about it.

 

[terry751]

If I'm not in favor gay marriage in theory, but am not doing anything to hinder it, then how is my personal belief jeopardizing the futures of thousands of families? Does my (singularly, as in ME alone) lack of support for your plight obstruct it in any way? Some people just like to feel affronted when they see someone who isn't interested in being a foot soldier for their cause.

If you didn't vote on the issue, say you left that issue blank on the ballot, then I'd see your point. A very valid one indeed I'd might add. Of course that's assuming you left it blank. The problem with the prop 8 fiasco is that it was given a choice by the people of California. I'm sure Diamondskin will agree with me on this one: most black people don't care for gay marriage either way. While they don't support it, they won't go out of their way to create a proposition to stop it. We have the Mormons, Catholics, and other organized religions to thank for that.

 

[DiamondSkin]

If you didn't vote on the issue, say you left that issue blank on the ballot, then I'd see your point. A very valid one indeed I'd might add. Of course that's assuming you left it blank. The problem with the prop 8 fiasco is that it was given a choice by the people of California. I'm sure Diamondskin will agree with me on this one: most black people don't care for gay marriage either way. While they don't support it, they won't go out of their way to create a proposition to stop it. We have the Mormons, Catholics, and other organized religions to thank for that.

The problem is that leaving it blank is just as worst as saying YES to Prop 8.

Whenever a minority fights for equality, they always have a numbers problem.

That's why they're a minority.

So really it doesn't matter if you leave it blank or check Yes. It's a blow to the No either way...

 

[DiamondSkin]

So people can't even leave the box unchecked without it being an issue for you. In other words it's "my way or the highway" with you..."you HAVE to agree with me, or else..."

terry751, I think this proves that Diamond is a bit more ZEALOUS than you thought.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize my askance of equal rights was such an inconveinence or annoyance to you.

I do hope I'm not being to pushy.

It's just I'm tired of being a second-class citizen is all.

 

[DiamondSkin]

Your plight for equal rights is your struggle. Don't demand other people (BTW, I'm actually FOR gay marriage, I was playing devils advocate earlier) to join in the battle. If they want to, great. If they don't, then that is their right. For you to say that someone who has reservations about same sex marriage being legal, but is cordial enough to leave the box blank to not hinder the cause, is in line with the people who vote YES is way overboard. In your mind only ONE option (yours) is acceptable. This goes beyond gay marriage. This is about DiamondSkin having a fascist mentality. I bet if someone did disagree with you about flavored ice cream, or whether or not a movie was good, you'd throw a fit and not hear their side

Fascism? I had no idea marriage equality was a tenet for fascism? Did Hitler write a paper on it?

And yes, there is only one option when it comes to equal rights in my mind. The other option is discrimination.

Equality or Discrimination. That's why there's only two boxes on the bloody ballot....